KSA (Saudi Arabia)

[JeremyMartin]

I finished a year there last year. If you can keep your mouth shut and your head down then it's OK. And yes most people are there simply for the money. I echo the DO NOT TALK ABOUT RELIGION, if you are an Atheist that is actually a capital offense in theory. in fact there are a series of no go areas to not talk about or get involved in. In Riyadh it's hot.. really hot, especially in summer. I wouldn't want to go there premanently but it was interesting for a year.

[threefold]

JeremyMartin

Thanks for posting.

Were you teaching English there? Did you live in a compound? Would you go back? How much paid leave did you get more or less?

[JeremyMartin]

Hi again
was I teaching english? Yes I was in a private academy that farmed us out to Universities and goverment training institutions.

I got a month paid leave + the Eid holidays (the national holidays in Saudi) that I took at the end of my contract.

Would I go back.. well I never say never, however if I did it would only be for a year and I would make very sure that I knew who I was working for before I went.

Hope that Helps

Jeremy

[JeremyMartin]

Oops sorry

forgot one question. No I didn't live in a compoud I was placed in a Hotel for the year with other english teachers.

Jeremy

[threefold]

Thanks for the information. I feel like the money is a lot, and might be worth it at the end of a generally extreme and difficult year. Only one way to find out though. Are the Eid holidays long enough to travel out of the country?

[rahfh]

Hi

Jeremy, some questions - What qualifications did you need, how much experience and who where your contacts?  :D

[livzy]

Threefold, the Eid breaks are certainly long enough for a break, and you'll very likely be getting out of the country as soon as you can. In regards to this, where you're living has some bearing - Riyadh (central), Dammam (east coast) and Jeddah (west) have the only international airports, but if you're placed elsewhere internal flights are cheap. I was near the northern border, in my second year there, and could take a taxi to Jordan or a cheap flight to Riyadh and then onwards.

You may get both Eids plus a month off in total, although these can be subject to change if your employer gets summer work (like a summer camp for the worst high school / university students). This happened at my place before I left.

Riyadh is hot but at least the humidity is low. Both the east and west coasts are slightly cooler but the humidity is much higher. Dhahran (east coast) had recorded in 2003 the highest temperate - taking into account humidity - in the World of 78 °C (172 °F) :o.

[JeremyMartin]

Eid breaks are long enough to go out (in fact most saudis do that, the place tends to be dead around Eid)

Qaulification, well I had the usual TEFL cert, degree and 1 years teaching experience. However the thing they really like is paperwork, if you have a masters you get more money, competence and experince have nothign to do with it. Also how you look is a big factor, I got transfered to the IPA (government training) as I am white with blue eyes and blonde hair, in other words I "looked western" and they got rid of people who didn't fit their ideas of how they should look.
I used Daves to get contacted directly by the academy (which has changed quite a bit now) just put yourself out there and somebody will bite. Oh DO NOT take any offer of entering the country without already getting your work visa, you do not want to get caught in anythign illegal there.


Also for travelling the Bahrain run over a wekend was quite common (although that was for Riyadh and Damman, not really Jeddah I beleive)

[threefold]

Thanks for the information.

[jimmyeatworldwar]

i actually graduated from an American school in Riyadh around ten years ago.
i'm sorry if there are any KSA nationals in this board, of which i strongly doubt.

KSA sucks.
There are many reasons why it is, to point out a few which i hated:

1. women's right.
My mom was stopped in the mall more than ten times because she had make up. The religion police (callled Muttawah) almost slashed my mom's knees because of her lipstick. Its just ridiculous on how the saudi muttawahs look down upon women in general as well. They stare and gaze at any non arab looking females, up and down, and they claim that they are living a holy life.
2. Rudeness
Generalization is very bad, but i'm gonna say it. Saudi people are rude. good thing that my family was white because as someone posted earlier, people of color don't get the respect they should get. Its funny because almost all the works are done by non arabs in KSA (like UAE)..if it weren't for them, the arabs will be starving under the sun.
3. no cultural aspects whatsoever in the city.
Sure, you can go to the desert and have fun on the four wheelers, but it will get boring once in a while. There are no cinemas, taking pictures is illegal (didn't know that eh?), talking to strangers is considered moronic. At least if you are a foreigner, you will live in one of the 'compoinds' where all other foreigners will live. but if you can't afford living in those compounds, good luck in trying to find friends. Well.. you can keep your dog, but dogs btw are considered filthy in KSA.

[Cereal]

Hi,

I just got a contract offer from the International Group for Training, a Canadian based company. The offer is for a job in Damman or Jeddah, KSA, in the Aviation Department. It looks like it is for a position teaching English to aviation people, pilots, flight attendants.

I previously posted about an interview, which I had and was offered a job, which I turned down because the money wasn't worth it to leave Korea.

This job is more lucrative and the company appears much more solid.

On the religion question, should I write Christian? I am but really haven't given a damn since I was 12.

Also does anyone know anything about this company?

Here is the letter which accompanied the contract:


Department:      Aviation Training Department
Position Available:   ESL Teacher in Saudi Arabia   
Location:      Dammam or Jeddah, depending on where utilization is needed
Contract Length:   1 Year minimum
Salary:   $3,000 (tax free) for first 90 days (probationary period). Upon     successful passing of probationary period, salary is increased to $3,500.
Accommodation:   Provided
Transportation:   Provided to and from work
Airfare:         Provided

Medical Insurance:         Provided in compliance to the law applicable in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

Vacation:     Annual paid vacation of (30) calendar days upon completion of 12 months

Any advice would be appreciated. I would actually love this gig if it's teaching in the aviation biz. I was a flight attendant for 10 years, which I'm sure helped my CV as I have a BA, TESOL and about 7 years experience, but no MA.

Thanks in advance.


   

[JeremyMartin]

ok on the "what do I put in religion" question, that's actyually quite easy. KSA has two religions.. Muslim and non-muslim... I'm serious that's it, if your a muslim put Muslim, if your anything else put non muslim (this is especially true for agnostics, Atheists or any of the non-standard religions as your beliief system might actually be a cpaital crime)

[oskinny1]

i actually graduated from an American school in Riyadh around ten years ago.
i'm sorry if there are any KSA nationals in this board, of which i strongly doubt.

KSA sucks.
There are many reasons why it is, to point out a few which i hated:

1. women's right.
My mom was stopped in the mall more than ten times because she had make up. The religion police (callled Muttawah) almost slashed my mom's knees because of her lipstick. Its just ridiculous on how the saudi muttawahs look down upon women in general as well. They stare and gaze at any non arab looking females, up and down, and they claim that they are living a holy life.
2. Rudeness
Generalization is very bad, but i'm gonna say it. Saudi people are rude. good thing that my family was white because as someone posted earlier, people of color don't get the respect they should get. Its funny because almost all the works are done by non arabs in KSA (like UAE)..if it weren't for them, the arabs will be starving under the sun.
3. no cultural aspects whatsoever in the city.
Sure, you can go to the desert and have fun on the four wheelers, but it will get boring once in a while. There are no cinemas, taking pictures is illegal (didn't know that eh?), talking to strangers is considered moronic. At least if you are a foreigner, you will live in one of the 'compoinds' where all other foreigners will live. but if you can't afford living in those compounds, good luck in trying to find friends. Well.. you can keep your dog, but dogs btw are considered filthy in KSA.

I agree with everything except the two bolds.

I take my camera everywhere. While walking through a ruined part of the city I stumbled into about 15 police officers on a smoke break. One asked me for my igama (same as your ARC in Korea) and they let me go. I turned around to leave but I had the police tell me to stick around and take all the photos I wanted to.

As for strangers coming up and talking to you being moronic... KSA must be filled with morons (I am not just talking about the drivers, who I have much stronger words for).

[livzy]

i actually graduated from an American school in Riyadh around ten years ago.
i'm sorry if there are any KSA nationals in this board, of which i strongly doubt.

KSA sucks.
There are many reasons why it is, to point out a few which i hated:

1. women's right.
My mom was stopped in the mall more than ten times because she had make up. The religion police (callled Muttawah) almost slashed my mom's knees because of her lipstick. Its just ridiculous on how the saudi muttawahs look down upon women in general as well. They stare and gaze at any non arab looking females, up and down, and they claim that they are living a holy life.
2. Rudeness
Generalization is very bad, but i'm gonna say it. Saudi people are rude. good thing that my family was white because as someone posted earlier, people of color don't get the respect they should get. Its funny because almost all the works are done by non arabs in KSA (like UAE)..if it weren't for them, the arabs will be starving under the sun.
3. no cultural aspects whatsoever in the city.
Sure, you can go to the desert and have fun on the four wheelers, but it will get boring once in a while. There are no cinemas, taking pictures is illegal (didn't know that eh?), talking to strangers is considered moronic. At least if you are a foreigner, you will live in one of the 'compoinds' where all other foreigners will live. but if you can't afford living in those compounds, good luck in trying to find friends. Well.. you can keep your dog, but dogs btw are considered filthy in KSA.

I agree with everything except the two bolds.

I take my camera everywhere. While walking through a ruined part of the city I stumbled into about 15 police officers on a smoke break. One asked me for my igama (same as your ARC in Korea) and they let me go. I turned around to leave but I had the police tell me to stick around and take all the photos I wanted to.

As for strangers coming up and talking to you being moronic... KSA must be filled with morons (I am not just talking about the drivers, who I have much stronger words for).

Where in Saudi are you? That has a strong influence on the local customs. I'm guessing you're not in Riyadh, which can be ultra-conservative in some neighborhoods.

[Jrong]

I've been interested in KSA from time to time, but I'm not sure it would pay off. The money doesn't look that much better than what the avg person gets here but it seems like you'd have less opportunity to spend it so you'd probably save a bunch more, right? And food from that area of the world is unbelievably amazing. Shawarma is my fav type of food. Man, I'd go just for the Shawarmas. Being able to eat local would save $ as well I assume (not like in Korea where 'local'=yuk and you have to eat expensive imported food).

Another main concern is how do you know for sure your company is legit? If Saudi companies are anything like Korean private companies in their 'shadiness' you could get in trouble quickly, especially (I assume) if you have to take a lower placement bc you don't have an MA. You get off of the plane, and they decide to 'change the rules on you'....then you can't leave without getting a special exit visa, right? Nightmare. Especially for an atheist of partly-Jewish heritage who can't keep his mouth shut and traveling with a family.

And another question: is having a family a plus like it is in Korea? How would they feel about both of us working? Before coming to Korea having a family did not help us with recruiters but once on the peninsula...it's definitely a bonus in this conservative and paranoid culture that fears it's women will be corrupted by the evil waegookin.

Another question: Are they more concerned that you are older or that you look older?

Thanks, anyone.

[reverendb97]

I've been interested in KSA from time to time, but I'm not sure it would pay off. The money doesn't look that much better than what the avg person gets here but it seems like you'd have less opportunity to spend it so you'd probably save a bunch more, right? And food from that area of the world is unbelievably amazing. Shawarma is my fav type of food. Man, I'd go just for the Shawarmas. Being able to eat local would save $ as well I assume (not like in Korea where 'local'=yuk and you have to eat expensive imported food).

Another main concern is how do you know for sure your company is legit? If Saudi companies are anything like Korean private companies in their 'shadiness' you could get in trouble quickly, especially (I assume) if you have to take a lower placement bc you don't have an MA. You get off of the plane, and they decide to 'change the rules on you'....then you can't leave without getting a special exit visa, right? Nightmare. Especially for an atheist of partly-Jewish heritage who can't keep his mouth shut and traveling with a family.

And another question: is having a family a plus like it is in Korea? How would they feel about both of us working? Before coming to Korea having a family did not help us with recruiters but once on the peninsula...it's definitely a bonus in this conservative and paranoid culture that fears it's women will be corrupted by the evil waegookin.

Another question: Are they more concerned that you are older or that you look older?

Thanks, anyone.

Both my wife and I just came back from KSA this past summer. We loved being there.  We went back to the States due to some family issues. The food is so much better than Korea. We taught in Korea for two years and liked it okay, but we really wanted to go to Saudi Arabia. The money is much better than Korea mainly because the cost of living is much, much cheaper than it is in Korea. Groceries are very cheap. If you get a car there, the gas will only cost you between 4 and 5 bucks to fill up; USD that is. It is very conservative, but if you have a family it will help in preoccupying your time there. We were in the Al-Ahsa region, and it tended to be pretty quiet at night.

As you know, there isn't really any source of entertainment there; except shopping. People there shop all the time. Clothes are more of an average size rather than Korean size. So, you really won't have to worry about going to Itaewon to find "Big" size clothing. You do have most if not all of the western style food there. So, when you go to larger cities where more malls are; it tends to be harder to not go into all of those places.

Make sure when you are doing your visa that you do not say you are an atheist or Jewish, because they will not let you into their country. We had friends that were Jewish and they also said they were Christians to receive employment. Our friends who were single didn't like the culture too much, because they could never talk to any women while they were there. As for others that were married, you are able to go to more places because you are married. Some restaurants on the local side, your family will not be able to go into. Only you and if you have a son can go in.

it is very male dominant, but there are still plenty of good things for the women there.

I hope this helps you out.

[Jrong]

Thanks for the reply, man. Yeah, I can probably keep my mouth shut, just being hyperbolic. I would never let on that I am either Jewish or Atheist, ha ha! Not into getting locked up in a strict fundamentalist Muslim country :).

If you don't mind me asking: What qualifications do you guys have? Where did you teach (uni or other)? How much money could you save, exactly? Did you stay on a Western compound? If not, then how did you survive?

[clairemont]

I'd like to second Jong's questions from the previous post! Also, I heard that the educational requirements for teaching in KSA were made stricter a few months ago. Does anyone know about that? Thanks  :)

[livzy]

In Saudi you're able to save quite a bit, as there isn't any of the following;

1. Cinemas
2. Bars
3. Nightclubs
4. Art galleries
5. Tourism
6. Alcohol
7. Bacon
8. Christmas
9. Public entertainment (except beheadings in 'Chop Chop Square' in Riyadh)
10. Women drivers