How far is TOO far?

[ahnatiuk]

So, let me give you a little bit of background information.  I'd appreciate any and all views on how to handle this situation.

About a month ago, I saw one of my students in the hallway, gripping onto the stairwell railing and sitting on the floor.  There were three teachers trying to yank him up; however, he wouldn't get up.  I walked on by because I didn't feel it was my business to interfere.

Today, this same student was in one of my sixth grade classes.  I was playing a trivia game, where the students were put into groups of four, and were writing down answers on a whiteboard and then revealing the answers after 10 seconds.  This particular boy was seated in the front row, about five feet away from me, and wasn't interested in the game, so he took out a pencil and paper.  I knew that he had prior anger issues (fighting with teachers in the hallway, and throwing a temper tantrum a few weeks ago during one of my lessons), so I didn't say anything to him about being off track. In most of my classes, as long as the student isn't disrupting other students and stopping others from learning, I don't mind if they need a little break. I figured he wasn't disrupting anyone, so better not to make a big deal of it.  After all, I was speaking the questions out loud, as well as the answers, so at least I knew he was listening and involved to some extent.  Anyways, my Co-teacher came over and took his pencil away, which by the look on his face I could tell he was really angry.  She walked away and he took out another pencil.  Again, not speaking, or disrupting.  So, she came over and took his notebook, and I'm guessing assumed that he would turn to his group and begin participating.  Instead, he sat at his desk, still silent and still angry.  My CT saw that he still wasn't participating, came over and PUNCHED him in the head.  I'm not talking, a little tap, a full out blow to the head.  I was absolutely shocked, and I'm quite sure the class saw my jaw hit the floor.  The boy was now at his desk crying, while my CT got in his face and said something in Korean, I'm not sure what.  The punch actually made his head jolt.

I know that when I started this job there would be some degree of corporal punishment taking place.  I've seen students get knuckled to the forehead, their cheek pinched, and/or have to stand with their hands and feet on the floor, but NEVER have I seen an actual punch to a poor child's head. 

At the time, I didn't step in because I thought I shouldn't undermine my CT in front of my class, but after class when the boy wouldn't even look at me, I felt that I had done the wrong thing.  I couldn't bring myself to look at my Co-Teacher for the rest of the day.  As I said, I know with Korean culture, teachers are allowed to discipline students through physical means, but where does the line get drawn?

I'm not sure if anyone else has had this issue, but any advice on what I should do would be appreciated.  Am I supposed to talk to the Principal (which would involve getting another teacher involved to translate), or do I say nothing at all?  Should I speak to her?  My CT and I have had problems in the past, which is why I didn't say anything today, but the more I think about it, the more I think I should. 

Thoughts?

[Taktalkteacher]

I've never seen that. Then again I am pretty new at teaching in my school, but a full blown punch to the head? The most i've seen are spanks to their butts but that's mainly it. I honestly wouldn't know what to do in that situation...

[JuliusCaesar108]

While it's wise not to correct your co-teacher in front of the classroom, you need to talk afterward to your co-teacher not to hit students while you are teaching the class.  Do it in a way you know how your co-teacher may respond.  If necessary, ask questions and then advise them.  You know the situation better than we do, but remember, this is also your class.

As a side note, I understand it's illegal to hit children for corporal punishment now.  Even if the traditionalists are used to it, they need to get used to the idea of the laws of their own country.

[axolotl]

First off, I'm assuming that you are indeed in an area where that's legal.  In Seoul and Gyeonggi-do, it's not anymore.  Not sure how much that would change the situation.

Either way, clearly you're bothered about it, and a reasonable and safe step is to talk to your co-teacher about it.  You'll want to offer constructive criticism on how he can deal with students who are not paying attention, and you'll wanna make it seem more attractive than hitting them.
You're looking for something that spares students' skulls, helps students learn better, and is relatively low-stress for you and your co-teacher.

I recommend instating some sort of reward system for good participation; a group-based sticker chart and achievement certificates seem to be a good combination for other foreign teachers.

That'd be the first thing I'd try, anyway.

[ahnatiuk]

Great minds must think alike!  I started the sticker program in the first week of school.  I encouraged my CT to use it on the days I am not teaching with her, but she made her own.  Now, the students have two sticker charts each... talk about confusing. 

Next step?

[bjinglee]

As I said, I know with Korean culture, teachers are allowed to discipline students through physical means, but where does the line get drawn?

I don't know where you got that info from, but corporal punishment in Korea is now ILLEGAL.

[Hornet166616]

I agree with Julius, I think you handled ok considering it was such a shocking event. You do need to talk to that teacher and tell her that punching students makes you very upset and you don't want to see it in your class. You have the right to teach without being upset by witnessing abuse. If she doesn't stop, request to have another teacher take her place.

I think it's horrible that a teacher did that to a student. I'm not sure what I would have done.

[cragesmure]

As I said, I know with Korean culture, teachers are allowed to discipline students through physical means, but where does the line get drawn?

I don't know where you got that info from, but corporal punishment in Korea is now ILLEGAL.

I'm not sure that this is the case everywhere.  I believe it's a recent introduction that is being trialled in some places.  Anyway, it's an irrelevant point until it is actually enforced.  Jaywalking, running red lights, spitting in public, sexual assault and littering are also illegal here, and have been for years.  Good thing we never see any of that tomfoolery going on...

[suigeneris]

You handled it well.  I'm definitely not one to lose my s---, especially in a classroom, but I think this situation would do it. 

As for how to handle it, I guess discussing discipline with her in general and how you will BOTH manage it in the classroom?  The student wasn't being disruptive, so I don't even think it's a discipline issue.  Your CT sounds like a bully.  This isn't a constructive comment, but that's how I feel.  I'm Lioness Teacher.  Don't mess with my kids!

[S.Lee]

http://waygook.org/index.php/topic,10327.0.html

[gookway]

Don't question, criticize, basterdize, scorn, or rebuke a KT in front of the class. 
That's the worst thing you could do to embarass, shame, and humiliate them while at the same time dropping a A-Bomb on your relationship with the CT.   If you have something to say, talk to them in private after class.  Be professional and considerate.   You wouldn't want a KT doing that to you infront of all the students too. 

[Yu_Bumsuk]

That kid's going to be in for one hell of a time if he ends up at an old-fashioned MS next year.

[Nelene]

Yeah I have also seen kids being punished physically.....like a row of girls had to sit on their knees and they got hit on their tighs at the back with some kind of wip....just think how sore that must be. Luckily it has never happend in my class before and its really sad that it does happen. I have talked to one of my korean friends who is starting to teach now at a high school.....he doesnt agree at all with any methods used in the system nor the curriculum...so there is hope out there!

[Jozigirl]

Talk to your co-teacher and tell them that you're not comfortable with physical punishments in the class.  Be prepared to offer feasible alternatives - even suggesting that corporal punishment be done outside of the classroom.  Depending on your teacher, you can try explaining that it upsets or even offends you and setting out what you're more comfortable with. 

[amazeng13]

I agree with the others that it's best to talk with your co-teacher outside of class before it happens again. Hopefully together you can decide on an alternate form of punishment you both can agree on. 

[letsgoteacher]

I agree with the other posters that you handled the situation very well at the time.  It's important not to undermine each others authority in the classroom.  However, you must talk to your coteacher about it. 

First, I think you should point out to coteach (she/he, I forget!) why you didn't discipline this kid yourself.  See if you can set some groundrules as to what (and which students) need disciplining (we have a few 'slow' students in our classes, and have agreed with my coteach, that instead of making them write in their books during the writing lessons, we give them an alphabet sheet, so they can work on that, if they don't want to/can't we jsut let them alone as long as they're quiet...29 good kids are enough to handle). 
Then, try to give some positive aspects, such as coming up with what you both agree are acceptable methods of punishment in the class...writing lines, standing in the corner etc. 

If they insist on using corporal punishment, maybe you could try telling them that you don't want to create a fearful environment in the classroom.  Or you want to make it as 'western' as possible, and that physical violence is not an acceptable way of dealing with situations in the west. 

Good luck!

[wafflebunny]

Please tell me where in Korea because in my area of Daejeon ERRBODY break these rules carefreely! LOL! The men are spitting like their isn't no tomorrow.

As I said, I know with Korean culture, teachers are allowed to discipline students through physical means, but where does the line get drawn?

I don't know where you got that info from, but corporal punishment in Korea is now ILLEGAL.

I'm not sure that this is the case everywhere.  I believe it's a recent introduction that is being trialled in some places.  Anyway, it's an irrelevant point until it is actually enforced.  Jaywalking, running red lights, spitting in public, sexual assault and littering are also illegal here, and have been for years.  Good thing we never see any of that tomfoolery going on...

[hollifina]

Corporal Punishment is illegal as is punching a student in the head. You need to talk with your co-teacher, and if she will not be reasonable you need to talk to your VP and then Principal. If they will not be reasonable, you need to contact your coordinator and then take it to the Office of Education if you feel you need to. Take it all the way up the chain. I dealt with this at my last school. I had an abusive power hungry male co-teacher who enjoyed hitting my students and being a psycho in general. Needless to say, after I involved a series of outside sources his behavior changed.

And unlike the rest of the people's comments on here, I did call him out in class REPEATEDLY embarassing him a lot because he deserved it.  I won't tolerate that kind of behavior in my classroom from anyone.

The office of education is fully aware of the horrible reputation Korea has with respect to its education structure. If they receive reports like this from a native teacher, they will investigate it. By the way, I am married to a Korean who even said punching kids is wrong and should be banned.

[ironopolis]

Am I supposed to talk to the Principal (which would involve getting another teacher involved to translate), or do I say nothing at all?  Should I speak to her?  My CT and I have had problems in the past, which is why I didn't say anything today, but the more I think about it, the more I think I should. 

First and foremost, you don't need to do anything. You won't cause yourself or anyone else (even the kid involved) any trouble by just letting it go.

I'm not necessarily recommending that you do that and I can perfectly understand why you might be uncomfortable not at least saying something to someone about it.

If you do talk to this co-t about it, I'd suggest you first just ask in completely neutral way something like

What was that about? Did he do something bad?

   and then see what she says and take it from there. Because you first of all really need to find out a bit - no, a lot - more background to what's been happening with this kid. Perhaps also ask other teachers if they know about this student and any issues concerning him. If there is another teacher who you're close enough to trust sufficiently, you could maybe later mention the incident in passing and see how they react to it.

Bottom line though - test the water first before you start making any waves about something you don't really know many details about.

[Paju Leigh]

Something similar happened in my class ( though it wasn't a punch to the head) I was surprised beyond belief. I mean I have seen my CT get angry before, but not to the point of hitting someone. And this kid is so sweet, alittle naughty from time to time and really slow with learning English in the front but it wasn't him who started it, it was the little weasely boy next to him whom I dislike because he likes getting his friends into trouble and acts all innocent and has no idea what your talking about when you catch him! Sorry mini rant

But I didn't do anything, because I felt that if I did then my CT would get angry at me for making a scene infront of the class and plus you know the whole face saving thing etc so I didn't do anything apart from asking the boy after class if he was ok.
So you did the right thing but you do need to talk to your CT afterwards to ask what happened, please don't punch students in class etc^^