KoreaTimes- Students' skirt length a controversial issue

[Damien]

Men can take off their shirts without being sexualized so why can't women show a little leg?

What country are you talking about? You must not be talking about Korea, because women can wear shorts/skirts just blow their butt cheeks and be fine. If I took my shirt off for any reason minus being at the beach, I would get shot.

[Taya]

Men can take off their shirts without being sexualized so why can't women show a little leg?

What country are you talking about? You must not be talking about Korea, because women can wear shorts/skirts just blow their butt cheeks and be fine. If I took my shirt off for any reason minus being at the beach, I would get shot.

I was talking about western countries mostly.

If I wear a tank top here or a shirt with a normal neckline people stare at me. So I guess "dressing like a slut" is completely subjective. In other words, people can be taught to realize that a woman's leg is not offensive.

[NZ4Life]

they're dressing like whores

You sound like someone who respects women.

Whatever - if you can't stand people who aren't in the PC brigade go back to Canada. Some of them are dressing like whores. (Most of them are still really nice girls, though).


Whores, whores, whores, whores, whores.
(There you can vent your righteous indignation five more times).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOC-hDULX1c

[NZ4Life]

but in all seriousness.... if you can't quickly bend over or squat to pick something up without exposing your panties YOUR SKIRT IS TOO SHORT. with this test you don't even need rulers! i just saved Korea a bunch of money by switching to Geiko!! ^^

[#basedcowboyshirt]

they're dressing like whores

You sound like someone who respects women.

Whatever - if you can't stand people who aren't in the PC brigade go back to Canada. Some of them are dressing like whores. (Most of them are still really nice girls, though).


Whores, whores, whores, whores, whores.
(There you can vent your righteous indignation five more times).

You're using a slur and at the same time insinuating that women who are either promiscuous or who work in the sex trade are a lower tier of people than those are aren't.

It disgusts me how ignorant many of the males in the foreigner population here are. So much misogyny.

[Yu_Bumsuk]

they're dressing like whores

You sound like someone who respects women.

Whatever - if you can't stand people who aren't in the PC brigade go back to Canada. Some of them are dressing like whores. (Most of them are still really nice girls, though).


Whores, whores, whores, whores, whores.
(There you can vent your righteous indignation five more times).

You're using a slur and at the same time insinuating that women who are either promiscuous or who work in the sex trade are a lower tier of people than those are aren't.

It disgusts me how ignorant many of the males in the foreigner population here are. So much misogyny.

Why is that necessarily misognistic? Men can be whores. If you were wearing a skirt that showed your panties I'd say you were dressed like a whore, too. Oh, and I have no problem with *adult* whores, if that's one's career path.

[pania762011]

In the country i'm from uniforms are everywhere public and private schools. The school let's you know the rules when your parent signs you up and when you start school. At some schools they (homeroom teachers) ask the female students to kneel so they can check the length of their skirts or visually checking the length by looking at the kid. No problems during school time after school though myself being guilty I would hike my skirt up but no-one ever hiked their skirt up as high as the korean girls do, if they did there definiately was a name for you and trust me it wasn't nice. Our school uniforms don't look as scruffy and unattractive to the korean school uniforms, the only real issue was the correct black school shoes which were to be worn.

I do find when I catch the bus everyday these young girls who may think of themselves as women have their skirts so high that I see creepy old men staring these kids up and down. Maybe it's what these kids like? Who knows. I find that koreans flip the switch and have double standards in regards to immodest dress. On so many occasions as foreigners koreans would point, stare, gigggly and even stink eye us women if we're wearing sleeveless dresses or tops or tank tops yet we're covering more then they are when it comes to the length of their skirts and shorts. Some women may as well wear their underwear out in public with some of the things they wear.

[pania762011]

Why not be scientific about this issue?   We could get some horny high school boys and show them pictures of girls in various dresses.   That way, we could determine, even within a centimeter if we want, what skirt length will make them more horny and what length would not.  The Korean education board could then use that evidence to determine what the skirt length should be.

This quote reminded me of a South African teacher I worked with my 2nd year here. In Winter we'd have some high school students turn up in heels, barely clothed freezing. He'd tell his students or students he taught. "Sexy clothes not warm, Not sexy clothes warm" he's actually send the students back to the dorms to change their clothes. Appropriate clothes for appropriate weather and age. Girls never had a problem with what he said. The next day in class they would be dress appropriate for school.

[confusedsafferinkorea]

The "dressing like whores" thing bothers me too. Women are taught to be ashamed of their bodies and when they are confident enough to show off their legs and/or cleavage they are labeled as sluts. This is true in western countries.

Men can take off their shirts without being sexualized so why can't women show a little leg?

Most girls who want to wear their skirts short are not trying to get leered at or groped; they are trying to express themselves.

So you think it is appropriate for 14 year old school girls in school uniform to 'express themselves'?

Glad you never taught  my children.

If they want to do it outside school time and in their own clothes and their parents don't mind, then that is their choice, BUT in school uniform? I definitely have serious issues with that.

[no1really]

Most girls who want to wear their skirts short are not trying to get leered at or groped; they are trying to express themselves.

Can you expound upon this statement? What are they trying to express?

If not the mindless, copy-cat expression of popular trends, nor sexuality, then what?

Something I've never understood is, if females don't like unwanted male attention, why do they expose their T&A? All while thinking others won't or shouldn't judge you. If you show all of your goods up front, you risk sending the message that your sense of self-worth is reduced to your ability to attract a male. It screams desperation.

[giannispk]

Well. I have lived in Greece for many years and it's completely natural for men and women to walk around in their bathing gear, or just a little towel thingy (shawl maybe) around their wast. In Canada (where I also lived), it's much less common (combination of colder weather, lack of beaches and history of Catholicism and a slightly more conservative society).

Anyhow, in Greece, people still stare if they want to. The difference is that they don't blame the women for dressing like that, or of being whores. They don't say, well she was asking for it. And groping is not acceptable. On the other hand, in conservative societies it's not the norm that women go out like that, so if they do they are called names and/or get groped. Perhaps they might even defend themselves to the police by saying, well she was dressed like that. That does not prove anything though. I'm sure we can all see how ridiculous that is.

If you go to Greece for even one month (try July if possible) it might occur to you that less clothing is more comfortable, for men as well as women. At first you may be surprised to see the 80 year old grannies walking around in a bikini, or old men walking around with their saggy bellies, moobs, and hairy chests exposed, but eventually you will get used to it. I think, the same might happen in Korea if you stay a while (maybe try to go to a Jinjilbang a few times...)

[jauntwithjo]

Do Korean women not realize that showing that much leg in any environment other than a club is highly inappropriate, like wearing a tank top to your office job?

I do know it doesn't help that for most these young girls, their role models are Korean pop idols or actresses who all wear extremely short/glamorous clothing.

The sad thing is that I don't see my school enforcing the length rule.

There's also a difference in wearing a short skirt to look nice, and wearing a skirt so short, you can see underwear. If you need to hold your bag behind you as you walk up stairs, it's too short.

[Yu_Bumsuk]

Well. I have lived in Greece for many years and it's completely natural for men and women to walk around in their bathing gear, or just a little towel thingy (shawl maybe) around their wast. In Canada (where I also lived), it's much less common (combination of colder weather, lack of beaches and history of Catholicism and a slightly more conservative society).

Anyhow, in Greece, people still stare if they want to. The difference is that they don't blame the women for dressing like that, or of being whores. They don't say, well she was asking for it. And groping is not acceptable. On the other hand, in conservative societies it's not the norm that women go out like that, so if they do they are called names and/or get groped. Perhaps they might even defend themselves to the police by saying, well she was dressed like that. That does not prove anything though. I'm sure we can all see how ridiculous that is.

If you go to Greece for even one month (try July if possible) it might occur to you that less clothing is more comfortable, for men as well as women. At first you may be surprised to see the 80 year old grannies walking around in a bikini, or old men walking around with their saggy bellies, moobs, and hairy chests exposed, but eventually you will get used to it. I think, the same might happen in Korea if you stay a while (maybe try to go to a Jinjilbang a few times...)

I highly doubt they dress that way to school.

[gookie]

At my school, theres always a male teacher that keep watch at the front entrance and the students come in by a single file so he can inspect their uniform and hair length. Just yesterday while I was changing into my slippers, a female student was taken aside because her skirt length was a bit too short I think and because of that she got whipped and her skirt was readjusted by the male teacher. In Canada, you can probably go to jail for that.

[Taya]

Most girls who want to wear their skirts short are not trying to get leered at or groped; they are trying to express themselves.

Can you expound upon this statement? What are they trying to express?

If not the mindless, copy-cat expression of popular trends, nor sexuality, then what?

Something I've never understood is, if females don't like unwanted male attention, why do they expose their T&A? All while thinking others won't or shouldn't judge you. If you show all of your goods up front, you risk sending the message that your sense of self-worth is reduced to your ability to attract a male. It screams desperation.

I'm not saying it isn't copy-cat expression. It's same as people who get "tribal" or Chinese character tattoos when they don't speak Chinese to express themselves. I don't agree but it's still an expression.

I should be able to wear a tank top and not get stared at. Girls should be able to wear short skirts and not get stared at.

[pr1ncejeffie]

So the Korean government's solution is to put a board in front of the desk?  Geezus.  Just a few days ago, my friend was getting a lecture from some old guy because she was showing her shoulders at a laundromat.

Shoulders = no no
ass cheeks hanging out of your skirt/hot pants = it's appropriate.

[confusedsafferinkorea]

Most girls who want to wear their skirts short are not trying to get leered at or groped; they are trying to express themselves.

Can you expound upon this statement? What are they trying to express?

If not the mindless, copy-cat expression of popular trends, nor sexuality, then what?

Something I've never understood is, if females don't like unwanted male attention, why do they expose their T&A? All while thinking others won't or shouldn't judge you. If you show all of your goods up front, you risk sending the message that your sense of self-worth is reduced to your ability to attract a male. It screams desperation.

I'm not saying it isn't copy-cat expression. It's same as people who get "tribal" or Chinese character tattoos when they don't speak Chinese to express themselves. I don't agree but it's still an expression.

I should be able to wear a tank top and not get stared at. Girls should be able to wear short skirts and not get stared at.

Taya, you never answered my previous question but from your response here, you seem to think it is ok for girls (14year olds) to wear extremely short skirts IN UNIFORM.

As far as I am aware, not many people have condemned the practice OUTSIDE the school uniform thing, but clearly it is inappropriate to 'express' yourself in school uniform and like it or not, if you wear an extra short skirt, you ARE going to get stared at. I am not condoning the staring, I am just saying it is a fact of life.

 We are all here to educate, and wearing revealing clothing at school is NOT appropriate.

[DevilMogun]

At my school (all boys) the students are regularly inspected for correct hair length, which may not be too long OR too short.  They are sent home for a hair cut if it is longer than the acceptable length. We've just had an announcement from the Principal that this week they may wear winter or summer uniform but from next week it's summer uniform - short sleeves only. 

It seems odd to me if girls aren't similarly chastised about school uniform skirt length here. 

When I was at school, several hundred years ago, some old dodderer would get us all kneeling up on our desks and if our skirts didn't touch the back of our calves exactly we'd be sent home to dress appropriately.  Much later on my daughter complained about her school making her and her friends wash off all their make-up.  Uniform was still specified right down the colour and length of sock.  I can't say I minded at all, during my school days or my daughter's.  You're at school to learn, not to be cute.

As for the general argument over whether girls/women should cover up or let it all hang out, I still recall a conversation I had with a Yemeni woman who had lived much of her life in Western countries. In response to me asking how she felt about wearing a burqa she said that she had a choice to cover herself or not (and she was covered) but she felt sorry for Western women who seemed to be obliged to reveal their bodies for the titilation of men that they don't even know.  That comment has always stuck and I've reflected on it many times over the years.    . 

[pr1ncejeffie]

He is right... school is not the place to express yourself like that.

Just like a work place.  Let me know when you go into work with a tank top and some short skirt.  Then come back and tell us what your boss/manager said.

[confusedsafferinkorea]

'You're at school to learn, not to be cute.'

Well said, I hope this comment makes its way to the School Board Official who is considering this crazy proposal of putting boards in front of desks at mind-boggling costs.