Author Topic: Greatest songs of all time  (Read 2312 times)

Offline elzoog

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Greatest songs of all time
« on: May 12, 2011, 09:04:29 am »
How would you guys explain to Koreans why the following songs are considered to be the greatest of all time?   These songs weren't decided based on my personal opinion.   They were decided based on the votes of 170+ musicians, critics, and other music industry insiders.   From:

http://www.metrolyrics.com/rs

Top 10

1    Like A Rolling Stone                      Bob Dylan
2    Satisfaction                                    Rolling Stones
3    Imagine                                          John Lennon
4    What's Going On                           Marvin Gaye
5    Respect                                         Aretha Franklin
6    Good Vibrations                             Beach Boys    
7    Johnny B. Goode                           Chuck Berry
8    Hey Jude                                        Beatles
9    Smells Like Teen Spirit                   Nirvana
10    What'd I Say (Live Berlin) 1962      Ray Charles

The most obscure one on that list to me is "What'd I say" by Ray Charles.


Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2011, 09:07:39 am »
Despite that being a completely dad-rock list, I'd say most of it can be explained by how influential each song was, as well as how popular.


Offline elzoog

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2011, 09:16:25 am »
Despite that being a completely dad-rock list, I'd say most of it can be explained by how influential each song was, as well as how popular.

1)  These are music industry insiders that made this list.
2)  They considered songs from the 2000s.
3)  One of the songs in that top 10 list is from the 90s (i.e. Smells like teen spirit).

I kind of agree with the general gist of the list that the 1960s were the best time in music (being VERY GENERAL because I can easily think of awful songs from the 60s), that the 80s were about the same as the 50s in terms of quality, that today's music kind of ties with the 1940s or 1930s as far as awfulness.   Although I would say that at least the 1930s had sophisticated charm, whereas stuff today sounds like something I could write with a half way decent music software package.

As far as specific songs though, I would probably have a different list.


Offline akim87

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2011, 09:17:40 am »
dangerous - my american heart

this song is like sex to ears, or what is referred to as shin-shee shin-shee

Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2011, 10:30:12 am »
Despite that being a completely dad-rock list, I'd say most of it can be explained by how influential each song was, as well as how popular.

1)  These are music industry insiders that made this list.


And that means they have good taste in music? No. Industry insiders are one of the reasons Top 40 is what most people listen to.

All of the songs on that list are excellent, excellent tracks, but Rolling Stone's Top 500 list is one of the biggest jokes out there.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 10:41:30 am by cowboyshirt »

Offline elzoog

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2011, 10:35:59 am »
dangerous - my american heart

this song is like sex to ears, or what is referred to as shin-shee shin-shee

Interesting.   It wouldn't be on my personal top 10 list, but it certainly beats Justin Bieber.
After hearing it, on a scale from 0 to 100, I would probably rate that song at about an 85 or 87, which is good given that these days it's hard to impress me with new songs.

Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2011, 10:42:58 am »
dangerous - my american heart

this song is like sex to ears, or what is referred to as shin-shee shin-shee

Interesting.   It wouldn't be on my personal top 10 list, but it certainly beats Justin Bieber.
After hearing it, on a scale from 0 to 100, I would probably rate that song at about an 85 or 87, which is good given that these days it's hard to impress me with new songs.

I've never understood why people think the year a song was released in is related in any way to whether it's good or not.

Offline elzoog

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2011, 10:53:34 am »
Despite that being a completely dad-rock list, I'd say most of it can be explained by how influential each song was, as well as how popular.

1)  These are music industry insiders that made this list.


And that means they have good taste in music? No. Industry insiders are one of the reasons Top 40 is what most people listen.

Music insiders have exposure to more songs than the average person has.   They also do research into what music sells and what doesn't.   However, I will add the caveat that Frank Zappa told a guy who wanted to write pop music, that the kind of songs he writes will be dictated by the tastes of teenage girls.

The list was also created in part by people who play music professionally themselves. 

Quote
All of the songs on that list are excellent, excellent tracks, but Rolling Stone's Top 500 list is one of the biggest jokes out there.

As I said, my own personal list would be different from theirs.  However, who am I?  I'm just a guy who studied music in college for a few years (decided to switch majors) and can sort of sing.   I am not a professional musician that has access to the same variety of songs that Bono from U2 would have (for example). 

As far as the complaint that top 40 is bad, this is not exactly new.   People have been complaining about how bad "top 40" is at least since the 70s.   So, we are talking about songs that were on the radio when people were complaining about how bad top 40 stuff is, yet still make a top 500 list decades later.   Not exactly a small feat.

As far as recent stuff like Justin Bieber.   Justin Bieber is better than much of the worst stuff from the 60s and 70s.   The problem though is that there is nothing cutting edge in anything he does.   Apparently, the people in the music industry who spend a lot of money to promote him (the SAME people that made that top 500 list) agree.

So other than your own personal opinion, why do you think that list is a joke?

Offline elzoog

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2011, 10:56:32 am »
I've never understood why people think the year a song was released in is related in any way to whether it's good or not.

Yeah, like a "daddy's rock list" eh?

By the way, I didn't even bother to try to find out what year dangerous - my american heart came out.   I still don't know what year it came out.   I merely pulled it up on youtube, listened to it, and gave my opinion of it.


Offline elzoog

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2011, 11:17:30 am »
I've never understood why people think the year a song was released in is related in any way to whether it's good or not.

Since you say that what year the song came out is not related in any way to whether it's good or not, what do you think of this song?

Remember, you say that what year it came out is irrelevant.   So pay NO attention to when it came out and just simply listen to it.   Ready?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2S1I_ien6A

I would personally rate this song somewhere in the top 100 of the best songs of all time.

Your opinion?

Offline hunterst

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2011, 11:52:46 am »
no rap music, no jazz music, the list is worthless.

Offline elzoog

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2011, 12:02:08 pm »
no rap music,

Rap is musically just rhythmic speech.   It's actually not that new of an idea (I can think of songs from the 50s that have "rap" in them although they don't have "funky beats").

In the top 500 list, there are a few rap songs.  (For example Rapper's Delight which is rated at number 248).

But to be honest, what kind of innovative things can you do with rap other than lyrics and rhythm?    With rock, you still have the lyrics and rhythm aspect PLUS melody and harmony.

Quote
no jazz music,

Well, jazz is at the top as far as innovation.   I would begrudgingly agree with you here except that jazz has always been a niche market.   There is only a certain percentage of people who follow jazz, and it's never a majority.  That's probably why there aren't as many jazz numbers on the list.


Offline gookie

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2011, 12:13:58 pm »
Never Gonna Give You Up - Rick Astley

Offline hunterst

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2011, 12:18:34 pm »
no rap music,

Rap is musically just rhythmic speech.   It's actually not that new of an idea (I can think of songs from the 50s that have "rap" in them although they don't have "funky beats").

In the top 500 list, there are a few rap songs.  (For example Rapper's Delight which is rated at number 248).

But to be honest, what kind of innovative things can you do with rap other than lyrics and rhythm?    With rock, you still have the lyrics and rhythm aspect PLUS melody and harmony.

Quote
no jazz music,

Well, jazz is at the top as far as innovation.   I would begrudgingly agree with you here except that jazz has always been a niche market.   There is only a certain percentage of people who follow jazz, and it's never a majority.  That's probably why there aren't as many jazz numbers on the list.

There is melody in rap.  Most of the top producers are more musically innovative than any rocker currently working.  Rythemic speech, not really, to call the top rappers flow, cadence, and delivery just speech is to vastly undersell it.

Online justanotherwaygook

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2011, 12:25:59 pm »
Wrong.  Wrong.  Wrong.  This list is all wrong.  It doesn't include this masterpiece:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4vxIWGunJE
C is for cookie, that's good enough for me.

Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2011, 12:36:49 pm »
I've never understood why people think the year a song was released in is related in any way to whether it's good or not.

Yeah, like a "daddy's rock list" eh?

By the way, I didn't even bother to try to find out what year dangerous - my american heart came out.   I still don't know what year it came out.   I merely pulled it up on youtube, listened to it, and gave my opinion of it.

1. Don't get so defensive. "Dad-rock" =/= pejorative "daddy's rock list"

2. "Sing, Sing, Sing" is both classic and awesome.

3. Rolling Stone's Top 500 list is still a tragic trainwreck of a list.

Here's the distribution of that list by decade:

Decade    Number of songs    Percentage
1940s    2                             0.4%
1950s    72                             14.4%
1960s    204                       40.8%
1970s    141                           28.2%
1980s    57                             11.4%
1990s    22                             4.4%
2000s    3                             0.6%

The Beatles have twenty-three songs on that list. A list that suggests one band is responsible for almost 5% of the "greatest songs of all time" came from one group over a six-ish year span is ridiculous.

This is an example of a list sorely, sorely blinded by nostalgia and superficial popular opinion rather than actual critical consideration.

Offline elspeth

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2011, 12:40:04 pm »
TS delete thread. Worst list ever.

Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2011, 12:45:40 pm »
As further evidence that Rolling Stone is a complete hack of a music publication, in 2010 they tried to update their list (read: appeal to people that were saying their original list was so hopelessly rooted in nostalgia that it couldn't be taken seriously) and what did they do? They just combed over a bunch of poppy number 1 hits from the last two decades and slopped the haphazardly through the original list.

These are the songs that were added in the 2010 update. And most of them are, despite being catchy and radio-friendly as all hell, are not Top 500 material. Check it out:

I'll bold the ones that have no business being anywhere near that list (note: that doesn't mean I don't like them, or that I think theyr'e bad. They're just not critically deserving of that honour)

    "Crazy" by Gnarls Barkley (#100)
    "Crazy in Love" by Beyonce featuring Jay-Z (#118)
    "Moment of Surrender" by U2 (#160)
    "99 Problems" by Jay-Z (#172)
    "Rehab" by Amy Winehouse (#194)
    "Paper Planes" by M.I.A. (#236)
    "Mississippi" by Bob Dylan (#260)
    "Jesus Walks" by Kanye West (#273)
    "Seven Nation Army" by The White Stripes (#286)
    "One More Time" by Daft Punk (#307)
    "Take Me Out" by Franz Ferdinand (#327)
    "Beautiful Day" by U2 (#345)
    "Maps" by Yeah Yeah Yeahs (#386)
    "Umbrella" by Rihanna featuring Jay-Z (#412)
    "Juicy" by The Notorious B.I.G. (#424)
    "American Idiot" by Green Day (#432)
    "In da Club" by 50 Cent (#448)
    "Get Ur Freak On" by Missy Elliott (#466)
    "Big Pimpin'" by Jay-Z featuring UGK (#467)
    "Last Nite" by The Strokes (#478)
    "Since U Been Gone" by Kelly Clarkson (#482)
    "Cry Me a River" by Justin Timberlake (#484)
    "Clocks" by Coldplay (#490)
    "Time to Pretend" by MGMT (#493)
    "Ignition (Remix)" by R. Kelly (#494)
    "The Rising" by Bruce Springsteen (#497)

Seriously, Rolling Stone. Get it together. It takes more than sifting through a bunch of poppy hits that all had high charting positions to make a Best Of list.

Offline 7Suarez7

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2011, 12:46:03 pm »
I've never understood why people think the year a song was released in is related in any way to whether it's good or not.

Since you say that what year the song came out is not related in any way to whether it's good or not, what do you think of this song?

Remember, you say that what year it came out is irrelevant.   So pay NO attention to when it came out and just simply listen to it.   Ready?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2S1I_ien6A

I would personally rate this song somewhere in the top 100 of the best songs of all time.

Your opinion?

Sorry but i wouldn't put that 'song' into my top 1000 let alone top 100...

Personally, I don't buy into the whole 'top 10/20/50/100/500' of anything when it comes to music, music is personal to everyone, so the whole notion of 170 'insiders' decide this ultimate list is complete tosh to me. I laughed when i saw 'Satisfaction' by the Rolling Stones at number 2....of all time!! (Hope that doesn't offend you OP...I know you like the Stones a lot and are a general rock fan as you posted a while back complaining about how Koreans had no culture because they did not know certain rock songs which you considered to be great songs).

This thread could go forever...


Offline Ahimsa

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Re: Greatest songs of all time
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2011, 12:47:28 pm »
Just my .02, but I would think very few of those songs would be on my list.  What the criteria are matter a lot, of course, in terms of impact, technical skill, or however you want to slice it.  Were it me, I'd try to explain that Western countries probably have less of a consensus about the top 10 songs or whatever than Korea would.