Are we reaching a tipping point in Korea?

[timidkoreanboy]

Timid makes some really great points. However, I doubt the chances some kind of independent company in an unrelated field will arise to challenge the jaebol. These nepotist companies have in one way or another sunk their fangs into just about every possible economic sector. They actually use nascent economic sectors as a means to transfer wealth to the next generation. Here is an article about the ease with which these companies transfer ownership and wealth from one generation to the next.
http://english.khan.co.kr/khan_art_view.html?code=790000&artid=201104131703177&medid=enkh

Mix in the fact that you have these companies dominating the government (lee Myung Bak was Hyundai CEO) and it just seems that the same oligarchy will continue to dominate politics and correspondingly labor.

I have to go take a shower and get to school so I can't dwelve deeper into this, but this next article highlights the antipathy between the Korean people and the jaebols.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2011/04/123_3745.html

I would probably in the end agree that it's probably grasping at straws to hope for some sort of domestic solution that is based on "doing something" via laws, regulations, or some "political will of the people."  As much as people hate jaebul (I think a lot of this antagonism is either envy, frustration, or ideological rather than something a real political movement can get behind), the truth is people are afraid of what a world without jaebul would actually look like.  So am I, frankly.  You don't dismantle the core of any country's economy, no matter how inefficient, because the alternative is much worse.  This is why I think that it's myopic to place all blame at the foot of jaebul.  Instead it's more useful to look at the system that allows jaebul to be, well, jaebul.  And that system includes everyone who is employed by them as well as all the college graduates who desperately want a job at Samsung (and all their families), all the products that people simply can't do without, all the small and medium sized businesses that supply, distribute, market, or otherwise serve or serviced by jaebul, universities and research projects that are funded by jaebul, politicians who rely on their financial support, and on and on.

Instead, what I am suggesting as points of change is that the underlying logic that jaebul rely on change.  In short, "the rules of the game."  A lot of it actually might already be falling away.  The world is globalizing enough that government is becoming increasingly ineffective at protecting domestic markets, assuming they want to in the first place.  Will people really want to buy Galaxies rather than iPhones?  (if I was a betting man I'd bet on the latter)  The best example of this potential change is online and mobile markets.  Will people really continue to use Naver, which is not a real search engine, or will they move to Google?  (I'm not sure but if I had to bet I'd bet on the latter) Will people really be using my2day instead of twitter? (No way)  Will people stay with Cyworld, or will they move to facebook?  (the exodus has already begun) At least in these tech industries, Korean companies will not be able to do "business as usual."  I think it's entirely possible that a similar logic will emerge in other industries-- and if that stimulus doesn't come from domestic startups and entrepreneurs, there might be external stimulus to create organizational change.  Is it likely?  I'm not certain.  But if it were to happen, I think it's a good thing.  As an aside, I don't think jaebul will just roll over and die-- if they're smart (which they are), they'll adjust so that they can be competitive in a new atmosphere.  And in the end this would mean many of the inefficiencies of Korean society would begin to be addressed.

[flips]

I'm going to make a bold claim here because I think it's related to a lot of comments that have been made, and the claim is:...

this is an incredible post. thank you so much for making it. the cultural distortions created, from the cultural vacuum left by the japanese, by rhee and hee - dictator advocates of democracy against communism - are far-reaching. in my experience, many koreans i have spoken to are well aware that they have been neutered and sanitized by the engines of economic growth - just as many of my american counterparts are well aware that we are subjects of a corporate kleptocracy - however, they understandably are ignorant as to how to effect change. thanks again.

[timidkoreanboy]

I do have one recommendation if you're interested in a deeper treatment of Korea, Korean culture, and so forth... I have a good friend who studies the formation of Korean nationalism as well as race who blogs a lot about his ideas and we share a lot in common, so I'd probably point you to his blog at: http://metropolitician.blog.com  I

Hope that helps

fascinating topic OP, and timid, I've really enjoyed all your insights. I was going to start reading the blog you mentioned but the link was dead :-(

I have to say I've really been lacking this kind of intellectual stimulation recently so this post really brightened my day! Makes me wish I'd paid more attention in Econ 101 :-D

Oops!  Sorry, I left out an "s":
http://metropolitician.blogs.com

Cheers!

[sejongthefabulous]

I've been hearing for awhile about the tipping point in Korea. 
The cultural points that have been made are very good, particularly the one about a recently forged national culture that is being exploited for marketing and the sales of made in Korean things above and beyond economic sense (think hanoo for one). 
There is also the lingering problem of the older generation and their attitude, "We made Korea rich and the way it is now, so listen to us".  It stifles innovation to say the least. 
There was another point about a glass ceiling for foreigners.  It's true, you can only go so high with talent alone, think of all the Russian programmers and engineers working for Samsung and LG, their Korean managers take the credit. 
Also, the double standards for investors, if you are foreign and you do well you are robbing the country.  If you do bad and pull your money out you are running away.  This mentality is reflected in the corporate justice system and it's very dangerous.
I disagree with the population problem.  Southeast Asians are migrating here in droves to be exploited as cheap labor.  It could also increase multiculturalism and fix some of the above issues.
A lot of countries these days are at the tipping point.  Without lots of natural resources to exploit in the future, Korea will have to be resourceful and innovative, but they are well aware of this.  They are improving education, building infrastructure and developing their hightech and service industries

[timidkoreanboy]

I'm going to make a bold claim here because I think it's related to a lot of comments that have been made, and the claim is:...

this is an incredible post. thank you so much for making it. the cultural distortions created, from the cultural vacuum left by the japanese, by rhee and hee - dictator advocates of democracy against communism - are far-reaching. in my experience, many koreans i have spoken to are well aware that they have been neutered and sanitized by the engines of economic growth - just as many of my american counterparts are well aware that we are subjects of a corporate kleptocracy - however, they understandably are ignorant as to how to effect change. thanks again.

Thanks for the kind words.  I especially like your wording about how we Koreans have been "neutered and sanitized by the engines of economic growth"-- I think that's a fairly accurate reading, and that phrase will probably make its way into my future conversations somehow

I could probably go on and on about the U.S. as well... if anything the U.S. is harder to change because the culture of liberty (read: individualism, private property) and equality are so at odds with one another yet are so intertwined in the nearly 250 years of American history (a real 250 years) that it's hard to know even where to begin.  A few things the U.S. has going for it, however, is a culture of public debate and open critique, as well as incredible diversity driven by constant waves of both forced and voluntary immigration that has spawned many social and political movements that in the end improved society and balanced out some of the worst excesses of capitalism.  I guess I'm both more pessimistic and optimistic about the future of the U.S. vis-a-vis Korea...

[DeMayonnaise]

As far as the workplace goes- I had a Korean friend who worked in Canada for a year, and it really opened his eyes. His ideas were something roughly like this:

There are creative people everywhere, but Korea is stuck in a model that does not reward or incentive creativity or questioning the status quo.

It rewards hard work, repetition, and obedience to open secrets like the one Kevin's friend has to deal with- you can't climb up the ladder unless you work 2x the amount of hours that you are legally allowed to.

Imagine you work at Apple Computers in California. You are a talented guy/girl who is rewarding for thinking out of the box. In fact, that's the whole reason they hired you.

Suddenly you have an idea- it's a phone, it's a computer, it's an iPhone. You can imagine how this will change the industry, and you bring it to your boss. You tell him things need to change, and you tell him your plan to make Apple create this amazing product that will (eventually) make it the richest tech firm in the US.

Your boss, who has been hired and rewarded in the same environment, sees this potential and passes it along to the higher ups who give it the green light.

Meanwhile, his counterpart at Samsung got his job not for showing off his creativity, but rather his test scores and his degree from a SKY school. He also has the same idea, but even if he does bring it to his boss- is the boss really going to pass it on?

That status quo has worked so far, why risk it on something like an iPhone? People seem happy with their regular cell phones.

And so, Korean companies end up copying the iPhone (I love the Galaxy, if anyone asks), but they can't produce products that define the industry. This is reflected in their school system that is so focused on the old root model- repetition repetition repetition repetition repetition.

Best thread I've seen on here or Dave's. Good stuff!

In Korea, the worker would take the iPhone that was invented by another company, reverse engineer it, then market it as their own phone, calling it the Samsung Galaxy. The Korean model is to steal ideas from abroad, change em a bit, and work harder to make them cheaper. Eventually it'll catch up to them and stop working...

[sungadio]

you might want to look into what you just said. Samsung actually makes some components for the ipod, which is probably why they were able to make their own satisfactory one.

[pr1ncejeffie]

Like I said, Samsung has been a great success story the last 10 years.  Sony fumbles made it that much easier for Samsung to take over the electronics world. 

The products might be great but how long did it take Samsung to start changing their models to compete against the world?  They started the change around the late 80s I believe.  I seriously need to look this up but it was a long and tedious process for Samsung to change their old ways.  Yes, that old model of repetition and staying late hours is still there but you can see the change in them over the last 10 years. 

Asia as a whole is really prone to that way, rote learning, memorization, and working long ass hours.  I seriously see the connection with everything now.  The way they live, the way they over dramatize everything and so on. 

Korea really wants to live in their own world but be part of the world economy.  I don't see how they keep balancing both acts...

[sejongthefabulous]

I have to agree, Samsung may be making the internal components for the iphone.  Apple pays for the rights to use them in their products, how else are they getting them.
But apple has shown the world that it's not what is on the inside that counts when it comes to technology.
Samsung has all but made a carbon copy of the design, marketing strategies and user interface and this is what the lawsuit is about.  Many of the Samsung components are probably made in a Chinese factory and paying royalties to older Foreign patents and assisted in development and design by non-Koreans.  It's the strong desire to maintain Koreaness despite all this that's odd.

[timidkoreanboy]

Since there's alot of Samsung bashing I feel a need to put it somewhat into perspective:

Let's remember that there are an infinite number of firms that WISH they were Samsung.  Hell, they wish they were Daewoo, even after their breakup.  Let's give props where props are due: Samsung, Hyundai, and other Korean companies that are globally competitive put in their dues and have definitely gone where no one has gone before.  You might say they had the benefit of government, of U.S. aid and protection, and so forth and so on but there are plenty of other examples inside and outside of Korea that didn't achieve the same level of success despite even more favorable circumstances.

And as for Korea as a whole, it's important to remember the process by which Korea has gone from rags to riches.  The amount of planning, labor, sacrifice, and endless battles and compromises required to achieve what we see today is really quite unique.  Actually, from an objective perspective it's fascinating.  In Korea you can see most of the significant experiences that countries around the world experienced separately or only in parts during the 20th century: colonization, decolonization, WWII, Cold War, civil war (still ongoing), transition from a closed inward economy to one that was mainly export oriented, and again back inward, decades of military dictatorship, military occupation by a superpower (which some argue has never ended), mass political protest, peaceful democratic transition, transition from manufacturing to an information based and service economy, global economic crisis (the one in 1997), and of course elevation to an OECD country.  And most of this pretty much within 50 years.  There are countless countries around the world that only wish they had the same dilemmas that Korea is going through.

None of this is to paint a rosy picture on a development model that obviously has some huge problems.  I'd be the first to point them out.  But I still think it's important to remember this backdrop because it explains a lot of what you see in Korean society, what you see with Korean firms, etc. that to the unfamiliar eye seems downright strange, if not crazy.  For instance, if you are curious why older generations who are still alive today are particularly anti-American, it's partly because when American soldiers were here during and immediately after the war, some of them who were downright cruel, took what they wanted, and weren't too nice to Koreans (we all know that the term "gook" was invented not in Vietnam, but in Korea). As a frame of reference to keep in mind, it'll be interesting to see how friendly Iraqis are 30 or 40 years from now.  I guarantee there will be a lot of Iraqis who simply won't care when we Americans tell them, "Hey, you should be thankful to us, because we freed you from Saddam."  If the modus operandi of Samsung and many other Korean firms is to benchmark available technologies then refining it, it's because they developed on the basis of very rapid "catch-up growth," as did all "late" developers (including Japan, who actually were much "earlier" than Korea).  "Catch-up growth" is shorthand for not reinventing the wheel, which means yes they pour capital into creating products already made in more developed countries, make refinements wherever possible, and reproduce.  Japan did the same thing, even though they already had a huge nascent industrial base from their imperial days (jaebul in fact were modeled after the Japanese zaibatsu).  The first Toyotas and Hondas were pretty much exactly like Hyundai Excels.  Considering this historical development trajectory, it's pretty amazing that Hyundai has come out with a car that can challenge BMWs, that Samsung today is dominating semiconductors and is threatening to be the global leader in various other technology fronts like LCD displays, and that despite the Hwang Woo Suk fiasco, that Koreans are conducting cutting-edge research in biotech, nanotech, robotics, AI, and various other technical engineering fields.  And actually, it was not facebook or myspace but Koreans who were the first to really make online SNS work, and to have a country so completely wired for broadband and wifi is also quite amazing.  Almost weird.

My belief is actually that this rather freakish, quite unique development path has had huge social costs and the chickens are coming home to roost.  If foreigners, even casual tourists, understand this historical backdrop, I think it goes a long way towards understanding Korea and Koreans, and if we're a bit more hopeful, potential solutions become more accessible.

Deep inhale

[woman-king]

As far as the workplace goes- I had a Korean friend who worked in Canada for a year, and it really opened his eyes. His ideas were something roughly like this:

There are creative people everywhere, but Korea is stuck in a model that does not reward or incentive creativity or questioning the status quo.

It rewards hard work, repetition, and obedience to open secrets like the one Kevin's friend has to deal with- you can't climb up the ladder unless you work 2x the amount of hours that you are legally allowed to.

Imagine you work at Apple Computers in California. You are a talented guy/girl who is rewarding for thinking out of the box. In fact, that's the whole reason they hired you.

Suddenly you have an idea- it's a phone, it's a computer, it's an iPhone. You can imagine how this will change the industry, and you bring it to your boss. You tell him things need to change, and you tell him your plan to make Apple create this amazing product that will (eventually) make it the richest tech firm in the US.

Your boss, who has been hired and rewarded in the same environment, sees this potential and passes it along to the higher ups who give it the green light.

Meanwhile, his counterpart at Samsung got his job not for showing off his creativity, but rather his test scores and his degree from a SKY school. He also has the same idea, but even if he does bring it to his boss- is the boss really going to pass it on?

That status quo has worked so far, why risk it on something like an iPhone? People seem happy with their regular cell phones.

And so, Korean companies end up copying the iPhone (I love the Galaxy, if anyone asks), but they can't produce products that define the industry. This is reflected in their school system that is so focused on the old root model- repetition repetition repetition repetition repetition.

Yep.  This is why Korea can go far but only so far in the global market.  You have to make your mark by developing things that are new and the entire framework doesn't lend itself to that.

[woman-king]

I'm going to make a bold claim here because I think it's related to a lot of comments that have been made, and the claim is:

Korea doesn't really have much in the ways of a "traditional culture."   The idea that the older generation is holding Korea back, and the stodgy hierarchical system that is associated with "the old Korea" is some long rooted practice is false.  The whole connection with Confucianism, neo- or not, to Korean society is something that was carefully engineered and created during the Park Chung Hee era when in fact there was more or less a cultural vacuum-- when all you had were a bunch of poor people in a country devastated by colonization and by Civil War.  In fact the Japanese had conducted a very successful campaign to consciously eradicate all culture from Korea and to replace it with Japanese practices.  It was in this vacuum that Park created a cultural system, ironically fashioned after the Japanese one that he was so familiar with, and connected it to all sorts of remythologized Korean traditions and history-- to create a sense of national identity and of nationalism that could be mobilized to motivate labor, keep wages low, and control dissent.

So in my opinion a lot of what is perceived as "5000 year old Korean culture" is actually a bunch of bogus.  The reason it seems so strong and unchanging is actually because, ironically enough, it's so new, and because of how powerfully people (most of whom are still living today) were indoctrinated to believe that it was something essentially Korean. 

Anyway, the really important point is this: the fundamental "culture" in Korean society (and probably, in pretty much anywhere in the world), is actually a fierce, cold-blooded rationalism that privileges above all other things money and economic growth.  The key difference from the 60's and 70's today is that now there isn't really one actor (government) shaping and defining culture for their own goals (national economic development).  Since democratization and development, the voices have become much more varied and diversified.  So now it's more or less a big Pandora's Box: people believe all sorts of things that are completely contradictory but which are stated to be completely "Korean."  And because there's no single governing goal anymore, Korean people themselves are not sure what exactly is right or wrong in Korean culture. Korean people LOVE talking about Korean culture-- but that's also a function of the fact that there's so much uncertainty on what exactly it is. 

And here's the really dirty, honest truth: many of the most successful people in Korean society know how to manipulate "culture," to navigate it to their advantage, to "manage" it, but in the end are still driven by one main motivating force: profit and power.  That respect for the elderly, or school network seniority, or the importance of family, or tight social networks, or even sexism that is so pigeonholed as "Korean" falls off real quick when real dollars and cents are at stake.  Yeah I said it.

So if there is anything that will change Korean society to be more efficient, it's not the older generation dying off, or a few sprightly young folks resisting traditional practices.  The monetary balance sheet has to make sense.  So far, it is simply more economically profitable in the short term for firms to behave as they have in the past, because of all sorts of positive network effects and institutional linkages, as well as the cost of reform.  The fact that jaebul dominate the economy doesn't help matters either, because if there was fair competition then the inefficiency of being "Korean" would be critical, forcing firms to change. But as of today jaebul can pretty much just beat down any competition with money and power, and don't have to think about wholesale changes in firm culture or practice to be competitive.  And all the other smaller and mid-size businesses are subject to the whims of jaebul-- in which case to be viable they must copy a lot of these "best practices" of the market leaders.  In academic terms this is called organizational isomorphism, but in short there simply are too many pressures to be like Samsung and Hyundai. 

Hmm, anyway this is way doom and gloom but the idea that change will come with time, or that a tectonic crisis will change everything is, imho, misguided.  If something's going to change in Korea it will have to be a new economic trend or sector that really, really demands a new type of firm culture or behavior.  And I actually feel Korea has a great deal of potential to be excellent when it comes to being globally competitive in new knowledge or creative or technical industries, but  a lot of it is being killed by a horribly failing education system and by the aforementioned domination of the economy by a few oligopolies.
Sorry for the long post, I just went off

Yeah, you did say it, and you said it so well.

If what you're putting out there is true--and I believe I've seen it, the manipulation of "culture" for other ends, and the fact that I have really never felt like I was touching the remnants of a 5,000-year-old cultural history despite some of the trappings that might be put around certain customs--then I am not so sure a real tipping point is here.  Without sounding really holier-than-thou, one thing I have noticed about my young Korean friends my friends back home is a much greater level of materialism.  I'm not sure how a new trend/sector could really develop here because it seems likely that most of the students we teach, however creative/brilliant, will learn to play the game as it's set out here to be successful--because they REALLY want that--unless they are one of those who are simply beyond fed up with the 'culture,' in which case, as others have pointed out, they'll just leave before they tried to start some kind of economic/social revolution.

[dsca0421]

[Korea is] like a child that grew too tall too fast and dont know how to really control its body's movements.

I've been saying this for a long, long time.

[Nimora]

Hey Just wanted to throw in a few points of things I've noticed...

Korea is a very unusual place because of its sudden growth and rapid riches.  It's almost like there are two South Koreas.

 One is a third-world country, with very eastern beliefs, and attitudes of a lower economic society. For example, in Western countries there is a strong emphasis on the system or process of how things are done, for example, whether or not you are friends with the police officer, you will still get that fine (very generally speaking), whereas in Eastern countries, a lot more 'politics' come into play. If you are a friend, or someone with high status, etc you might not get that fine.  In Eastern cultures, if your parents have powerful friends, you do better at school or in getting a job, than somebody with a poorer background.

The newer South Korea which is arising, is the more modernised and richer Korea, generally the younger generation. This is why we always notice a lot of immaturity in the older Koreans, a lot of childish behaviours in older parents, a lot more pushing and shoving from the old people on the subway/bus/trains,   but the younger Koreans seem to be from a completely different culture where they are more relaxed, more mature, show better people skills etc.

The reason I say these points is because Dubai has very similar symptoms. I was born and raised in Dubai, then moved to Australia. My grandmother has been in Dubai for 40 years, and when she arrived it was just a desert. She had a farm and tried to raise different animals. About 20 years ago, the town she was living in was just like a small village, and within 15 years, skyscrapers have been built all around her farm and a shopping mall across the street was built about 8 years ago. So she lives in this small cottage, and eats bread/milk/rice and simple foods while there are luxurious outlets all around her suddenly. She can't suddenly change her lifestyle and habits, and her children (i.e. my uncles) are trying to adapt and take their part of the boom, but their kids (i.e. my cousins) are growing up in a very modern and progressive city/culture.


Lastly, the thing that annoys me most about Korea is the inefficiency that everyone talks about. I KNOW how to learn and study very well and I know how to learn anything very efficiently especially languages, but being a teacher here in Korea and watching the way most people study is soooo frustrating.     I mean, as another example, I met a 28y.o. Korean girl who is trying to find a good husband to marry, and she is working hard and putting a lot of dedication into getting married. She is constantly meeting men and doing everything possible for the past couple of years to get married, but she clearly gives off an aura of desperation. So I told her that if she relaxes and is confident that the right man will come, she will definitely have more success...  Her answer was that in life, you can never get anything without lots and lots of hard work, and my advice was the most ridiculous thing she has ever heard. 

To me though, that is a good example of that Korean (or eastern) culture in play.     Study 15 hours a day, and you'll definitely forget most of the stuff you learned that day.  Study less hours and you'll be more fresh, quicker to grasp everything, remember much much more and have a lot more free time to rest etc.   Yet you see everyone at Sogang studying all year from 6am to 9pm and getting angry at themselves for taking more than 15min for lunch.... -_-


Anyways, just a few observations from me... I hope I was able to contribute something!

[wesharris6]

Korea exists as a paradigm. But that paradigm is rapidly going away. No longer is it about farmers in Shiny suits. Now, in South Korea, people exist in a very modern perspective as I'd say global citizens, they don't act third worldish at all. If you want to see a 3rd world meets 1st world mentality, visit a middle city in China. That'll give you a bit of light .

[elzoog]

Yeah, you did say it, and you said it so well.

If what you're putting out there is true--and I believe I've seen it, the manipulation of "culture" for other ends, and the fact that I have really never felt like I was touching the remnants of a 5,000-year-old cultural history despite some of the trappings that might be put around certain customs--then I am not so sure a real tipping point is here.  Without sounding really holier-than-thou, one thing I have noticed about my young Korean friends my friends back home is a much greater level of materialism.  I'm not sure how a new trend/sector could really develop here because it seems likely that most of the students we teach, however creative/brilliant, will learn to play the game as it's set out here to be successful--because they REALLY want that--unless they are one of those who are simply beyond fed up with the 'culture,' in which case, as others have pointed out, they'll just leave before they tried to start some kind of economic/social revolution.

Gotta agree with you here.  I have said that:

1)  Europe, Japan, and maybe China are actual old cultures.  In other words, cultures where what happened hundreds or thousands of years ago, actually do have an influence today.
2)  America is an adolescent culture.  Stuff from 200 years ago still influences America, like the Revolutionary war, but that was only 200 years ago.
3)  Korea is an infant culture.   This is because although there is 5000 years of "Korean history", there is pretty much nothing from 1000 years ago that still influences Korea today.   Pretty much anything that influences Korea today is actually no more than 50 years old usually.   For example, the "bali bali (hurry up)" culture started somewhere in the 1960s or 1970s.

As far as innovation, the problem is nobody knows what the new ideas are really going to be or how they will work.  If for example, I knew how to make flying cars with anti-gravity, I would simply build those and become famous. 

To make a new innovation takes A LOT of trial and error.   This is because, if you don't know the answer, and don't even have a clue what the answer is going to be, then pretty much most of your guesses are going to be shit.  It might actually take trying out thousands of shit ideas, or mediocre ideas, before you stumble on the one idea that is actually innovative. 

I notice that Koreans don't have a lot of patience for bad ideas, which is why I don't see them coming up with very many innovative ideas in the near future.

[elzoog]

The fact is that the primary goal of most public schools in Korea is less to educate and more to boost their profile according to college entrance rates, and even with this they're failing miserably.  Furthermore, the mass exodus of students whose families can afford it to schools abroad should make it obvious that the public school system in Korea has serious fundamental problems.  If we think of Korean education as a market, the winners are expensive private schools abroad (i.e. Exeter, Andover, Deerfield, Choate, St. Paul's, etc. in the U.S., and probably others all over the globe), then public schools in good neighborhoods abroad, then next foreign schools in Korea (i.e. SIS, SFS, etc.), then the specialized high schools (i.e. the foreign language and science high schools). 

The idea that the US public education system is better than the Korean education system, is just that, an idea.

I teach at a "problem high school" in Korea.   I would say that if this school were suddenly transported to somewhere in the US, it would be ranked as average or a little above average.   With the new principal (whose English is quite good) I would say this school has improved to the point that I would consider it above average compared to US public schools.

To give you an idea how bad the US public education system is, there are American students who graduate from the sixth grade who can't spell "girl".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw

[tunes522]

Lastly, the thing that annoys me most about Korea is the inefficiency that everyone talks about. I KNOW how to learn and study very well and I know how to learn anything very efficiently especially languages, but being a teacher here in Korea and watching the way most people study is soooo frustrating.     I mean, as another example, I met a 28y.o. Korean girl who is trying to find a good husband to marry, and she is working hard and putting a lot of dedication into getting married. She is constantly meeting men and doing everything possible for the past couple of years to get married, but she clearly gives off an aura of desperation. So I told her that if she relaxes and is confident that the right man will come, she will definitely have more success...  Her answer was that in life, you can never get anything without lots and lots of hard work, and my advice was the most ridiculous thing she has ever heard. 

To me though, that is a good example of that Korean (or eastern) culture in play.     Study 15 hours a day, and you'll definitely forget most of the stuff you learned that day.  Study less hours and you'll be more fresh, quicker to grasp everything, remember much much more and have a lot more free time to rest etc.   Yet you see everyone at Sogang studying all year from 6am to 9pm and getting angry at themselves for taking more than 15min for lunch.... -_-

completely agree with everything you said...but i will add this extra point: not only do Koreans work/study 10-15 hours a day...but they also NEED to put in those hours to equal the amount of work Americans accomplish in a general 8-hour workday...and before i get rocked, i will say, of course, there are lazy people in America...but they difference is MOST of those people KNOW they are...typical phone call to a Korean:

me: 'Hey, let's meet!'
them: "Oh, I'm sorry. I can't. I'm so busy today."
me: "So busy? What do you need to do?"
them: "So many things. I need to eat, take a shower, and watch TV today."
me: "So basically everything that the average person does in a normal day?"
them: "What do you mean?"
me: "Nevermind. Hope you can finish ALL of those things, sure seems like you'll be busy ALL day with those tasks..."
them: "Oh, thank you for understanding. Maybe next month I won't be so busy."

there is a common misconception that appearing to do something for a set amount of hours is MORE beneficial than actually completing the task, perhaps moving on to another task, and doing something valuable with the time you've saved..i love it when i prepare for an open class, and all of the Korean teachers are amazed..."How long did it take you to prepare for that lesson? I would never have time for that."..."It took me 20 minutes."...of course they are in shock and awe because i actually get my work done instead of complaining about it for two hours, surfing the internet for two more hours, eating a snack to 'give me the energy' to work, taking a short nap to take a break from my 'hard work', and then perhaps eating another snack before actually preparing for my lesson...

[prisspiggy]

This is a very engaging topic.  Thank-you for posing the question and also to everyone who responded.  I'm still learning about Korean culture so thanks for the links to articles and websites as well~

[Klogical]

This is a very engaging topic.  Thank-you for posing the question and also to everyone who responded.  I'm still learning about Korean culture so thanks for the links to articles and websites as well~

Il second that - i think this has been a great thread - not just because of the content (which is a really thoughtful look at change in korea) but because ive been throwin these questions around my head while ive been here and its kinda reassuring others have too - ie: im not totally off the mark with what ive bin thinking.

i have some questions that dovetail with some of the political and economic ideas put forward

1/ how big is the generation gap? firstly most high school parents are older than my own (im 29) and secondly the kind of pressures put on the young here are increasingly not being met socially or economically when they mature.

2/ do they have the conditions for a generational conflict similar to what we experienced in the west in the 60's ..and to a lesser degree in the late 70's and early 80's in the united kingdom (where youth in large areas of the country experienced real social and economic alienation).

3/ a sudden and rapid disintegration of the DPRK is not out of the question (and we all know its happened before in the DDR) . what kind of problems does this pose to the current state of korean confuscianism?  lots of refugees with no relevant skills and a MASSIVE enterprise to undertake in integrating the two koreas. I think would require something that parrallels the development drive of the south in the 60's and 70's.... are the youth gunna take it?.....they certainly like those iphones..........  just a thought ........