Harrasment: How would you react?

[xiloa360]

I just read the posting from the female teacher who caught a guy spying and earlier I was talking to another female who's friend was groped. I haven't been groped or harassed (I haven't been here that long though.) I'm the kind of girl who would yell or slap the person who harassed me (inappropriate groping...) I want to know what kind of reaction I would get (this is assuming he guy is a stranger and Korean). Would he in turn hit/yell back? Call the cops? (P.S. I know that this kind of situation could happen with other guys like other English teachers but I think that although I would still respond he same way, speaking the same language and both being foreigners might make t the outcome a little more different...maybe.)

[gilbert.a.h]

Good grief. Someone thinks they saw something, so now all foreign women are liable to be raped. Get a grip ladies.

Oops Rusty... seems YOU are being watched now... ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

Yeah, I do agree a lot of fear happens after something bad happens. It doesn't matter if it is a groaping or an act of terrorism. People thrive on fear.

I do agree that Korean men can be more aggressive than western men, well, depends on who of course, but I think a lot of the problem isn't the sexual problems, but understanding culturally what is acceptable. In the US, if a woman get groaped and she fights back, people will help, but yet here in Korea, people tend to believe it is best to mind their own business, except when it comes to what other's are wearing (like their brand names or whatever.)

[xiloa360]

Rusty, I'm just going to say this: It's easy for you to say that because you are not a woman. In all reality, you have privileges that you may not even be aware of because you're a guy. You may think you know about these kind of things but please, don't be so quick to pass it off as female hysteria.

[sunshinefiasco]

While I agree with Rusty that I'm not sure how this thread might be productive, I gotta say...

Rusty, you don't really think it's the same, do you? Because it's not. While your story is not uncommon (I have male friends who have been accosted since coming to Korea as well), and that's a good basis for another discussion, you still can't equate the two as equal.

[daunting]

I just find it creepy starting a thread thats main purpose is to fantasize about what you would do if you were touched by a Korean man. And I have been in situations that could be construed as sexual harassment and have been physically assaulted (unprovoked) by both Korean and foreign men. Ladies don't have a monopoly on being groped.

It's not about "fantasiz[ing] what you would do"; it's about being safe and prepared. Period. No woman hopes these things happen to her -- yet it is always in her best interests to know what to do if they do.

Have you never thought, "Hm, what would I do if I were mugged?" and came up with a contingency plan? It's the same thing.

[WorkingTitle3484]

As a guy, I recognize the liberties that come with the chin fuzz and XY chromosome.  I've been felt up by my male CoTs before, so I just return the favor and feel them up.  Actually, I keep my eyes open for the opportunity to sneak a hug in every once in awhile...awkward?  deliciously so.

BUT, if I were a girl and a Korean/non-Korean guy came up to me and tried gettin fresh, I'd sort that out REAL quick.  I think screaming/drawing attention is your best bet.  "Get your hands off my pink scarf!!" or something to that effect can make any brazen guy cower and scamper off.

I wouldn't recommend using your felonious fists of fury because, I've seen Korean guys slap around/grab/choke out women before and I DEF. don't want to see that happen to ANY lady.  Before anyone has a fit, no I don't think all Korean men are woman-beaters.

EDIT::Rusty, no disrespect, but if someone asks for help, don't criticize...either help or move on.  I can imagine asking you for the time, only to get an answer about how people never carry pocket-watches anymore.

[daunting]

I just find it creepy starting a thread thats main purpose is to fantasize about what you would do if you were touched by a Korean man. And I have been in situations that could be construed as sexual harassment and have been physically assaulted (unprovoked) by both Korean and foreign men. Ladies don't have a monopoly on being groped.

It's not about "fantasiz[ing] what you would do"; it's about being safe and prepared. Period. No woman hopes these things happen to her -- yet it is always in her best interests to know what to do if it does.

Have you never thought, "Hm, what would I do if I were mugged?" and came up with a contingency plan? It's the same thing.

If that is the case, I don't get singling out Korean guys. In my life I've probably been physically assaulted 8 times. 5 of those were by Samoan dudes, but I don't take special precautions against Samoan people. Just people who might wish me harm in general.

I think the point in singling out Korean guys is because there are potential differences in how men here would react to a woman using self defense (e.g. slapping, yelling, kneeing in sensitive areas) vs. how westerners typically respond. For example, if I were to knee a Korean man where it hurts, would he then call the police and implicate me? His words would certainly have more sway than mine, so this is information I need to know. If a westerner were to assault me, I feel reasonably confident I can handle the situation.

[daunting]

Also, while we're on the topic of self defense... Does anyone know if rape whistles are legal to use here? I know pepper spray and the likes definitely are not.

[iceberry]

Well I've noticed a difference between the cultures for sure.  I grew up in the U.S. for over 20-something years and never heard any of my friends mention being sexually harassed.  I came to Korea a few months ago and experienced two instances already. 

During the Buddha Lantern Festival, I witnessed a rich Korean man being videotaped and held back by policemen because he groped a foreign woman.  Then a few weeks ago my foreign friend was sleeping in a jjimjilbang alone when a middle-aged Korean man sexually harassed her.  She didn't say anything and just walked away.

In my case, I would scream "pervert" or "byun-tae" as loud as possible and kick him where the sun don't shine.  That's advice I've taken from native Koreans here.  Be careful in jjimjilbangs ladies!

[sunshinefiasco]

Of course it isn't the same. But, why single out Korean guys? You're 44% more likely to be sexually assaulted by someone you know (or some such).

Well, first of all, that's a Western statistic that doesn't apply here. Second of all, I didn't single anyone out, but I understand the impulse because a) in situations between native teachers/korean men, there is a language barrier, and usually alcohol involved on both sides which makes the experience weirder, b) it's really, really likely that you don't know the person (i'm basing that on personal experience/how often foreigners are just simply followed around, particularly females/how some older korean men conduct themselves when they are drinking), and c) that oftentimes, sexual assault is not taken seriously by people in the community.

Also, the issue of sexual assault/strategies for avoiding those situations were never brought to my attention before coming here, nor the attention of any other teachers I know (most of us attended public school orientation). When I went abroad to South America, we had an hour- long orientation on the differences in dating culture and how to (hopefully) avoid getting into a rough situation. (For the record, other than a couple of comments on the street, (ranging from the crude to being called a queen) I was pleasantly surprised by the lack of trouble in that area).

No one ever mentioned taking pictures of license plates before friends get into a cab or Burberry Men until my co-teacher did-- after I had a run-in with a taxi driver.

[amandaz]

I lived in Korea for two years and I experienced sexual harassment many times, as did my friends. I had guys try to follow me home, taxi drivers try to grope me (I was in the front seat, my friends were in the back), a guy expose himself to me on the street... the list goes on and on. I react quickly and extremely. I made the taxi driver stop, immediately got out, refused to pay and we jumped into another cab. I ran away from the guy who exposed himself to me (I'm a fast runner) and I when the guy tried to follow me home I got up in his face and made a big scene. I think it is important to be prepared for these situations, even if nothing ever happens you don't want to be taken by surprise if they do.   

[natale_laplante]

I'm insulted that someone suggested that women "fantasize" about being sexually accosted. What woman wants that? It's important to know what to do in case this happens, like planning for an earthquake or something. Talking about it and sharing ideas is also important, especially taking advice from those who unfortunately this has happened to.

[woman-king]

Good grief. Someone thinks they saw something, so now all foreign women are liable to be raped. Get a grip ladies.

Which is what I believe women on Waygook are trying to do by discussing this.  I have never experienced any kind of sexual harasssment until I moved to Korea.  Many female posters on this board have had scary experiences here, and a large part of that has to do with being singled out because we are foreign.  And a lot of us need to know about some of the legality surrounding stuff like this, since it's different than where we come from, and different for us as foreigners.

Luckily for you, other than going into the wrong jimjilbang, you won't experience this kind of fear.  Thankfully you don't speak for every man on this board, but even so, it never ceases to amaze me how dismissive some men can be towards women trying to protect themselves--as if the possibility that women might trust them a little less after sharing stories about harassment is, like, the most important thing.   ::) 

OP, this really concerns me too--while ultimately my own life is THE most important thing, I have heard that SK doesn't treat 'self-defense' the way we do in the West, so instead of "who started it" the police tend to look at "who inflicted the most damage."  So, if someone tries to drag you into their car and you do some serious damage to their genitals getting away, for example, from what I understand YOU are liable for that if nothing physically serious happened to you.  And, of course, we all know how a Korean's word versus a foreigner's goes.  If anyone's ever in that situation it is probably just time to get out of Korea.  Anyone who knows more about the law with regards to this should chime in though, a lot of us would like to have a better understanding of this all works out here and be more mentally prepared.

[woman-king]

While I agree with Rusty that I'm not sure how this thread might be productive, I gotta say...

Rusty, you don't really think it's the same, do you? Because it's not. While your story is not uncommon (I have male friends who have been accosted since coming to Korea as well), and that's a good basis for another discussion, you still can't equate the two as equal.

Of course it isn't the same. But, why single out Korean guys? You're 44% more likely to be sexually assaulted by someone you know (or some such).

Uh.  Because the OP and many of us want to know about the legal repercussions of physically defending ourselves against Korean men.  They are in all likelihood different than what we would happen if we did the same thing to another Waygook. 

[climber]

My friend was being harassed by a drunk Korean man at a bar. She became so angry at him, she punched him in the face. He proceded to call the police and she was arrested. There were no charges pressed against her after she got bailed out, but I wouldn't suggest hitting the person. Just scream out and make a big scene. What you can yell is Manjejema (don't touch me) or Piyeontae (pervert). Ask a Korean how to pronounce those properly.

[climber]

While I agree with Rusty that I'm not sure how this thread might be productive, I gotta say...

Rusty, you don't really think it's the same, do you? Because it's not. While your story is not uncommon (I have male friends who have been accosted since coming to Korea as well), and that's a good basis for another discussion, you still can't equate the two as equal.

Of course it isn't the same. But, why single out Korean guys? You're 44% more likely to be sexually assaulted by someone you know (or some such).

Also, 87% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[woman-king]

Of course it isn't the same. But, why single out Korean guys? You're 44% more likely to be sexually assaulted by someone you know (or some such).

Well, first of all, that's a Western statistic that doesn't apply here. Second of all, I didn't single anyone out, but I understand the impulse because a) in situations between native teachers/korean men, there is a language barrier, and usually alcohol involved on both sides which makes the experience weirder, b) it's really, really likely that you don't know the person (i'm basing that on personal experience/how often foreigners are just simply followed around, particularly females/how some older korean men conduct themselves when they are drinking), and c) that oftentimes, sexual assault is not taken seriously by people in the community.

Also, the issue of sexual assault/strategies for avoiding those situations were never brought to my attention before coming here, nor the attention of any other teachers I know (most of us attended public school orientation). When I went abroad to South America, we had an hour- long orientation on the differences in dating culture and how to (hopefully) avoid getting into a rough situation. (For the record, other than a couple of comments on the street, (ranging from the crude to being called a queen) I was pleasantly surprised by the lack of trouble in that area).
No one ever mentioned taking pictures of license plates before friends get into a cab or Burberry Men until my co-teacher did-- after I had a run-in with a taxi driver.

EXACTLY!  It is beyond me why this is totally ignored at orientations and by recruiters here.  Women going virtually anywhere else--South America, India, the Middle East, hell, even Italy or Spain get intensive training by the companies, organizations or schools that they go with.  Why the blind eye here?

[Jozigirl]

Good grief. Someone thinks they saw something, so now all foreign women are liable to be raped. Get a grip ladies.

How can you be so dismissive!  I'd rather be safe than sorry.  Coming from a country where rape and violent sexual crimes against women are daily occurrences - with thousands going unreported daily - I feel much safer in Korea BUT that doesn't mean it can't, and doesn't, happen here too.

Foreign women are singled out more often simply because we are foreign and stand out in a crowd.  I've had men walk up to me and suddenly start photographing my breasts (while wearing a top that a nun would be comfortable wearing); I've had a doctor mid-exam ask if he could have sex with me and then ask for my number (the hospital told me "he is good man; he is doctor"); I've had a taxi driver grope me and refuse to let me out of the car while asking if he could take me to a love motel instead of the cinema as I'd asked - when you live in a more rural area and are suddenly surrounded by open fields, it can be extremely unnerving; I've had a 17 year old male student tell me in graphic detail what he'd like to do to me after repeatedly asking if he could come home with me (my apartment is across the road from school); I've had a male colleague ask if he could give me a full body massage and acupuncture in my apartment and then ask me out to dinner - he also used to hang around outside my apartment after school and in the evenings until I filed a complaint; I've had a drunk guy try to get into my apartment one night because he thought it was his; the list goes on and on. 

Since my apartment is across the road from my school, of course it makes me a little bit nervous to hear comments like this knowing that at least 90% of my school knows where I live and nearly half of them know which apartment I'm in.  It doesn't necessarily mean that anything will happen or that I've "fantasized" about it but I've certainly given very careful thought to what I would do if something like that were to happen. 

[airrazr1986]

Don't feed the troll, guys and gals. This guy is just a pot stirrer and does so across many threads. Too bad Waygook doesn't have a "Block posts by ____" option.

[Brian]

We'll see if a 30-day temp-ban helps this user abide by this site's rules and aims.  Other repeat offenders will find themselves with forced vacation time, too.