Concerned over the direction the site is taking.

[anthonybrooks]

No offense, but it seems painfuly obvious to me that a 'GENERAL discussion' section is for GENERAL DISCUSSION!

If you want lesson plans, or to talk about lesson planing, classroom management or how to make resources, then go to those forums.

Every site I am a member of (martial arts, e-cigs, foriegn language, guitar forums, body building etc) all have a forum where you can talk about anything (off topic) or general discussion related to the main theme which for this board would be living and teaching in South Korea as an ESL instructor!

If some people are upet by the things in general discussion - don't go to general discussion forum.  Problem solved.

Why shouldn;t we be ale to discuss things like how we del with stress, datin in the workplace etc?  They are after all related to who we are and what we do for a living. 

Also most of us or a lot of us are the only waeygooks we see or talk to all day, no surprise really we want people to talk to here.  And whomever suggested facebook - my friends back home can't realte to the stuff I post here!!!  Also they are in bed whils I want to post!!

I don't know, that is just so painfully obvious and a non issue to me that I kind of feel kind of bad at having just written the above.

No offense Brian....

I just dodn;t see why genral discussion shouldn;t take place...!

Amen to that.

Also I think the 'most recently updated topics' box is one of the best things about this site.  so please don't remove it.

[leo fuchigami]

The alternative is to go along with what DWAE said. Instead of trying to fight a losing battle you could instead alter your perspective. Thread categories already create a division between the users who are here to socialize and those who are here to contribute to the teaching community. Why not de-regulate the general section, allow the community to take it where it wants, give them some control by implementing a +/- button to rank threads and comments, and reduce the workload on the moderators in the process. Instead moderators can focus on the core teaching related threads as it once was.

I think the biggest issue is the increased workload from spam threads and comments. why not just take yourselves out of the equation and let the community regulate itself?

I mean, the teaching threads require some degree of filtration to maintain a certain level of quality, but the general topics don't necessarily require the same amount of attention. they're not essential to the core threads, but merely a place to congregate.

[Andyc24_uk]

I can understand that having the topics about useful resources buried under an avalanche of other posts is a problem - but I really don't see why it's such a problem if people are discussing other things on here. I think you're possibly having the wrong debate. It shouldn't be about how to stop people discussing 'off-topic' issues - embrace that and be glad people are coming to the site - but more about how to separate the useful resources from the mundane conversation, to help those trying to find something specific.

As a suggestion - Why not change things around a bit on the homepage? Get rid of the current 'Latest posts' section (It's not all that useful and on my Netbook it takes up almost the entire screen anyhow!) and split it into two separate forums. Have two large buttons at the top of the homepage  - the right hand one is a big button labeled 'Resources'. Anyone with resources to share or discuss can post in here. This could also include the job posting section, and most other stuff in the current 'Teaching' category. In the long run, perhaps an FAQ section here could be useful (similar to the ones on DavesESL, but perhaps with information more recent than 2004 ) Under the button, maybe list the top 6 most recent topics. Moderate this forum properly - maybe even have posts moderated and approved before they appear on the site. Anything not relevant gets deleted.

The left hand button is labeled 'discussions' and contains everything else - general discussion, subsections on travel, buy and sell, links to other articles etc.  Pretty much let this one be 'anything goes' (within reason, obviously) - Basically don't waste your time moderating this forum, except for obvious stuff like racism/direct personal abuse reported to you by other users. If people want to ruin it, that's their loss. Those prepared to trawl through the crap to find relevant posts can and will do so at their leisure. Again, perhaps have the top 6 recent posts displayed underneath the button. 

This way, useful resources are easy to find - they'll all be under the well-moderated, heavily policed, spam and troll-free 'Resources' section of the site, accessible with one click of a button from the homepage. And for those looking for a place to debate/discuss/argue/comment/rant/vent or just wanting to share experiences of life in Korea... well, they can do that in the 'Discussions' section without bothering the people using the site for more serious purposes.

In terms of having numerous repetitive threads - yes, this is a problem... on any forum. I wonder if there's any kind of software out there which could automatically scan the title of a thread and suggest similar, related threads before a user posts? Rather like Google's instant search, where it 'second guesses' what you want before you've finished typing the word and hit enter... Alternatively, is it possible to make the 'new post' button redirect to a customised 'search' page which asks the user to search for existing threads on their topic before continuing to a new post screen?

Anyhow, just my 2 cents... I'm certainly one of the ones who's recently discovered Waygook from DavesESL, and I'm impressed by it thus far. Kudos to the mod and design teams for putting it all together.

[ecoecho]

maybe you could just get rid of the most recently updated bit, so that those that are easily offended don't have to see anything they don't like.  Why people who just want lessons care that much is hard to understand, don't post or look at threads that offend you.

I, for one, am not offended by general discussion posts as much as annoyed that I'm often unable to access Waygook to post or download teaching materials because the server is busy--and the most recently updated topics are a bunch of crap.

This is a wonderful and heavily used resource, to be sure, and I would just like to see this community prioritize the sharing of teaching resources, ideas and advice. So, I would like folks to get a clue, take this thread as fair warning, and moderate themselves.

But for more practical solutions, I think not having the updated topics feed on the home page is a start. This might decrease trolling. I would also be fine with getting rid of it altogether.

I also support paying a yearly fee for access to this site. I would pay around 30,000W for a membership. This may weed people out, or at least make it more bearable for those of you running this site.

I don't want changes to be made that will just make more work for moderators, and I don't want to moderate anyone. So, I don't agree with people rating posts positively or negatively in order to be considered by a moderator. Seems like too much of a hassle.

[tealstardust]

I have learned a lot about life in Korea, fun events, and gotten many laughs off of this site.  I would not like if it were relegated to teaching resources only.  Sometimes there is no where to turn except to other people who have been through what you have been through to ask questions. 
I like the most recently updated feature, because it tells me news, and it tells me what is going on,and what people are caring about right now, but a re-organization of the homepage or a different format might be appreciated.  I usually live in the teaching resources and the life in Korea boards when I am here.  Maybe one open room, with little moderation is a good thing?  Just warn people before they go in that you are not responsible for what is posted on that page?  Just a thought.  Tons of mindless word vomit is awful, but I would hate to see this site become less of a resource, especially for those new to Korea, because others can't keep things positive.  Good luck in this decision making. 
If I could afford it, I might say make it a pay sight, but my husband and I have truly enjoyed your resources, and hardly have enough money to live on, because we are trying to go home asap...several years down the line.  It would be tragic for us to need to pay for it. 

[Savre]

I understand what the Mods are saying.

Maybe you could put a 'vent' or 'rant' section. Although this might not be a good idea I do feel that a lot of people come here to express how they feel because a) people here can relate and b) there really is no other appropriate place to. Also venting "anonymously" is sometimes the only option for some people. Especially those who feel alone in Korea.

I do hate the pointless threads that people somehow feel the need to post for no obvious reason other than to get attention or to feel important.

[Morticae]

I agree 100%. The site is taking a big turn for the worse and I don't like it.

I started visiting in August 2010 when I first came to Korea, and in my opinion, a big group of those new recruits came here. That's fine. Fast forward a few months later and it snowballed.

These forums are rarely about teaching related materials anymore, which is my main interest. I see several ridiculous threads every day and the server has problems keeping up every time I come to visit (especially during the lunch hour).

Problems:
1) Too many members who just come here for general discussion.
2) Problem #1 led to problem #2, too many moderators.

I'd just like a Korea-oriented website to share lesson plan ideas. The occasional intelligent Korea-related discussion is just fine, but the main number of posts should be in the lesson materials.

Sometimes evolution isn't a good thing... but others will disagree with me on that.

[siamagoo]

I can understand that having the topics about useful resources buried under an avalanche of other posts is a problem - but I really don't see why it's such a problem if people are discussing other things on here. I think you're possibly having the wrong debate. It shouldn't be about how to stop people discussing 'off-topic' issues - embrace that and be glad people are coming to the site - but more about how to separate the useful resources from the mundane conversation, to help those trying to find something specific.

As a suggestion - Why not change things around a bit on the homepage? Get rid of the current 'Latest posts' section (It's not all that useful and on my Netbook it takes up almost the entire screen anyhow!) and split it into two separate forums. Have two large buttons at the top of the homepage  - the right hand one is a big button labeled 'Resources'. Anyone with resources to share or discuss can post in here. This could also include the job posting section, and most other stuff in the current 'Teaching' category. In the long run, perhaps an FAQ section here could be useful (similar to the ones on DavesESL, but perhaps with information more recent than 2004 ) Under the button, maybe list the top 6 most recent topics. Moderate this forum properly - maybe even have posts moderated and approved before they appear on the site. Anything not relevant gets deleted.

The left hand button is labeled 'discussions' and contains everything else - general discussion, subsections on travel, buy and sell, links to other articles etc.  Pretty much let this one be 'anything goes' (within reason, obviously) - Basically don't waste your time moderating this forum, except for obvious stuff like racism/direct personal abuse reported to you by other users. If people want to ruin it, that's their loss. Those prepared to trawl through the crap to find relevant posts can and will do so at their leisure. Again, perhaps have the top 6 recent posts displayed underneath the button. 

This way, useful resources are easy to find - they'll all be under the well-moderated, heavily policed, spam and troll-free 'Resources' section of the site, accessible with one click of a button from the homepage. And for those looking for a place to debate/discuss/argue/comment/rant/vent or just wanting to share experiences of life in Korea... well, they can do that in the 'Discussions' section without bothering the people using the site for more serious purposes.

In terms of having numerous repetitive threads - yes, this is a problem... on any forum. I wonder if there's any kind of software out there which could automatically scan the title of a thread and suggest similar, related threads before a user posts? Rather like Google's instant search, where it 'second guesses' what you want before you've finished typing the word and hit enter... Alternatively, is it possible to make the 'new post' button redirect to a customised 'search' page which asks the user to search for existing threads on their topic before continuing to a new post screen?

Anyhow, just my 2 cents... I'm certainly one of the ones who's recently discovered Waygook from DavesESL, and I'm impressed by it thus far. Kudos to the mod and design teams for putting it all together.

I'm quoting this just so it gets more attention. It's a long post but worth the read.  Andy's suggestion fixes most problems with one easy solution.

I endorse the "Andy Solution".

[DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP]

One might be reminded Morticae that on the site itself the following forum is decribed as -

  Life in Korea

General information regarding Korea

This being REALITY and all and not your own personal world inside your head - guess what people are going to talk about in that forum? 

And who saye it SHOULD all be positive.?

That would not reflect the reality of those of us whom have had negative things happen and want to discuss them and even inform others on how not to end up in the same positions perhaps?

Life isn't a fantasy world full of fluffy rainbows and unicorns and niether is life as an ESL'er in Korea.

Simple as that.  Anything else is utter falshood and fantasy.

Again my wish is merely that people could be ADULTS and not get upset about things they don't like and respond or not respond to them in a mature manner rather than crying.

Just my twenty won.

[airrazr1986]

I want to echo some of the other opinions expressed. Waygook was around last year and I only used it for lesson planning because it was a great resource for just that. Once we had to start posting to download, well, that's when I (and probably thousands of other users) started delving into the forums, creating/responding to threads, and guess what? We can only discuss E2 visa requirements and classroom management techniques for so long. Like the mods themselves said, many threads have to be merged because topics keep coming up. And yet now we're not supposed to be talking about certain topics?

I like the recent posts feature. Much easier than checking each section. And I like Waygook as it is now. The trolls are nowhere near the level they are at Dave's, and the mods are on top of banning the instigators.

If the site goes back to just lesson planning, then get rid of the posting requirement. You're telling us we have to contribute posts to access the resources but then you don't like what we're contributing, so then what?

[Morticae]

One might be reminded Morticae that on the site itself the following forum is decribed as -
..

I need no reminder of what forums exist, but I will clarify for you the feelings of my post. Before 85% of these people came here, this site was primarily about lesson planning. Now it's in the back seat. That's my complaint. The heart and soul, the focus of this forum, has been buried under trash. Or the focus has changed/is changing, at the very least.

I have about a months worth of lesson plans, but I can never post them because whenever I am at my work computer during lunch this server is always busy.

[DejaVu]

If the "Most Recently Updated Topics" section was gone, I would probably visit this site once a month (and then get too lazy/bored after 10 minutes and leave).  It's the best thing about this site.

As it is, this site is both entertaining and informative- and I'm just talking about the General Discussion forums.  If I want to give or take teaching material, it is easily found with a search box/lesson planning forum.

If the general discussions bother you, stop going to them.  If negativity bothers you, then buy yourself a sense of humour or your own outlook on life so as to not have your world turn upside down because of reading the thoughts of another individual.  Sorry to remove your blinders but much of Dave's "negativity" was just enjoyable debating. 

Gorgias.  What?

[VizionMC]

I am relatively new (2 months) to this site because I am relatively new (2 months) to Korea. I am not Dave's riff raff, I have never even been on that site.  I like this site a lot, but I myself have even commented once or twice about silly/ childish posts and rants, many of which would be better off as unconceived thoughts.  I love the site for lesson plan ideas and threads about life in Korea, tips, coping, etc.  Though it is all I know, being new to the site, I wouldn't mind seeing the Most Recently Updated Topics go either.  Thanks for having me 

[Olga]

First of all, THANK YOU moderators for actually caring about the quality of this site.

Said that, I am all in favor of getting rid of the "general discussion" area simply because people love to argue and throw cheap shots at each other.

my 2 cents.

[unclefrank]

I was a long time lurker of Dave's before I signed up for this sight. I'm all about the random threads (so long as they relate to Korea somehow). I think sometimes a board needs that. Ranting including. We're all 'doing this together' if you will, and often times the reality of being in a foreign country gets to us and we need some people that can relate. The difference between here and Dave's is that there is much less negativity here. Dave's is a cesspool of negativity.  Unfortunately some of those people are migrating here. You almost know if a person has been on Dave's before here by the words/tone in their posts.

In my own unique opinion, I'd say show a little slack to some of the threads that get locked, but get rid of the negativity spreaders.

[DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP]

One might be reminded Morticae that on the site itself the following forum is decribed as -
..

I need no reminder of what forums exist, but I will clarify for you the feelings of my post. Before 85% of these people came here, this site was primarily about lesson planning. Now it's in the back seat. That's my complaint. The heart and soul, the focus of this forum, has been buried under trash. Or the focus has changed/is changing, at the very least.

I have about a months worth of lesson plans, but I can never post them because whenever I am at my work computer during lunch this server is always busy.

1.  Obviously, tighten up the lesson plans and more classroom related forums so that nothing BUT that kind of content is posted there.  'Trash' being posted there could be an unwanted offshoot of the updated topics window, someone clicks on a topic there and maybe has no idea what forum they're actually in.  Getting rid of that feature (one I see no point for as threads you subscribe to are updated in your email) could lead to less off topic posting as a poster would have to make the actual effort to search for and identify a  forum .

2.  Get better servers?  I actually have no idea what that would entail and know next to nada about computing, so sorry anyone if that comes across as facetious.  ALL I know is on sherdog.com one of the biggest martial arts forums out there, they never slow down....

3.  Finally just because you only want the site to be one thing, as others have shown - some of us want to just chat about life in Korea and our jobs.  Why that should offend anyone I have no sane idea and even if it does - keep out of that forum then? 

[Daejeon]

General discussion, what friends are for. Just saying.

[Morticae]

3.  Finally just because you only want the site to be one thing, as others have shown - some of us want to just chat about life in Korea and our jobs.  Why that should offend anyone I have no sane idea and even if it does - keep out of that forum then?

There are other well established forums where general chat reigns supreme. Why must this forum devolve into that?

I'm all for Korea-related other posts, but the scale has began tipping fast and heavily.

We should do away with the general discussion, only Korea-related discussion. Furthermore, implement permanent bans. Have different requirements in order to enable downloads, not a post count requirement. Perhaps just a donation requirement: either $ or lesson plan material.

Anyway, this thread was created to ask for community opinions & ideas. That's what I have shared. DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP, you obviously disagree, that's fine. Make a post and state your case, no need to reply to my posts. I'm not the decision maker here so there's no point in trying to convince me of anything.

[epinephrine9]

General discussion, what friends are for. Just saying.

I've spent 7 months in this country in a place whose name roughly translates to "Rural Backwater Hell". I feel I am closer to 90% of the users on this site than "friends" who I have picked up here.

But don't take this as me trolling to try to defend the General Discussion here: it becomes a time sink, and an even bigger one when the site is having "Connection Problems" or whatever when I am actually at school and want to peruse a lesson thread for some ideas. I, for one, wish that the "General Discussion" would go away, likely to a sister site or something started by someone else. In other words, I liked the Dave's riff-raff at Dave's, and I like teachers' discussion here. If I knew where the riff-raff was going, I would probably follow and lurk there for something like 10 minutes a day, but I know that it would up my productivity in the long run.

[NZ4Life]

3.  Finally just because you only want the site to be one thing, as others have shown - some of us want to just chat about life in Korea and our jobs.  Why that should offend anyone I have no sane idea and even if it does - keep out of that forum then?

There are other well established forums where general chat reigns supreme. Why must this forum devolve into that?

I'm all for Korea-related other posts, but the scale has began tipping fast and heavily.

We should do away with the general discussion, only Korea-related discussion. Furthermore, implement permanent bans. Have different requirements in order to enable downloads, not a post count requirement. Perhaps just a donation requirement: either $ or lesson plan material.

Anyway, this thread was created to ask for community opinions & ideas. That's what I have shared. DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP, you obviously disagree, that's fine. Make a post and state your case, no need to reply to my posts. I'm not the decision maker here so there's no point in trying to convince me of anything.

please define: "Korea-related discussion"

not trying to be a smart-ass but i just re-read all the recently updated posts and all of them had to do with something happening in korea.