Concerned over the direction the site is taking.

[oculisorbis]

.But recently you get topics like,

possibility of getting attacked by men in korea (or something like that)

I'm planning on quitting my job and leaving

Don't like my coteacher

Do we really need discussions like these?

Yes, we do need discussions like this.

[DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP]

The best forum I read on the internet is basically moderator free. There's one guy, and all he does it takes forums that turn into bickering matches and move it to a bickering board. Everythign else is fair game. We can swear all we want, insult people, post pictures, etc. If someone gets out of line, the other posters just call him a d-bag and move on.

Granted, we all have thick skin and know how to take a joke. Pretty obvious that a lot of people on this site dont.

I beleive some of the mods will already be aware of this but - that is exactly what englishspectrum was and look how that turend out.  Honestly, it was the most disgusting, bottom of the barrel, underbelly of the esl world, cringeworhty to read - on it's best days....   Absolutely disgusting and ended up in the Korean media as well as spawinign that anti-englishspectrum guy.

The key is balance, keep the mods, warn trolls or thread derailers etc and ban repeat offenders.  it is good to see mods on this site that actually seem to care about their posters and the fact this thread exists is very heartening, so kudos for that guys / gals!

One thing that just puzzles me is the anti gen disc posters complaining of getting drawn into arguments etc as though they have zero control over themselves...   Again - we are ADULTS.   Take some responsibility, except not everyone sees the world like you do and ignore the forum or threads you feel are negative / argumentative etc!  It's like the obese moaning that Mcdonalds made them fat!  To posters like TAMNIER I really have to aks - why are you so upset by someone posting a thread such as 'possibility of women getting attacked at night' for example.  it happens, it is real life, accept it and as long as the thread treats the issue in a grown up way - what is the problem???  You honestly think this is not a relevent issue for esl teachers in Korea - especially the females?

Anywho, this is like my 4th post in this thread, guess I've beaten my tune enough, I actually like the site a lot as whilst some threads in gen disc can get a little intense, there seems to be less arguing just for the sheer sake of trying to win like there is on another site....

Guess the issue can really be reduced down to - is this a site for all aspects of the waygook and their life in Korea to find expression or is it just a lesson plan download site and for advice on classroom management etc.

Simple really when you look at it like that.

Ciao belli........

[MoneyMike]

Just my 2 cents.

I'm mostly a lurker, I don't often post unless it's a topic I feel strongly about.

I think this site needs to decide what it wants to be. Back when the community was a bit more professional it appeared that the decision was made. The recent influx of new members, has upset the balance, and caused this dialogue about what to do.

The way I see it, there are 2 choices:

1) Go the social route, aka Dave's lite. Add the ability to + or - posts, with a certain number of minuses hiding the post until it can be reviewed by a mod. Make sure all random conversations go into an off topic forum. Maybe think about additional advertising on the site to generate the money to support the kind of traffic that this site have been seeing.

2) Do what you can to push the site back towards what it used to be. Maybe a higher number of post counts required for starting new topics in general discussion, or the posting of a valid well made lesson plan first. Get rid of the most recently updated topics list, and consider banning IP's entirely if you have trolls making tons of different accounts. (I know that's not a perfect solution, and wouldn't affect the people whose internet uses dynamic IP addresses)

With the recent migration of posters, it seems like this site is going through an identity crisis. Only the site owner and top mods should be responsible for making that decision, then do what you have to do to make it happen.

Just my 2 cents. I personally enjoy reading heated debates, and I think some times people mistake that heat for flames or whatnot. I don't really use this site for lesson plans, as most of the ones I've looked at have looked kind of half baked. I do understand what you're saying about stupid threads like 'should I stay for another year?' or things like that though.

[Stephensalz]

Mostly a lurker.  As someone said, ask the questions and try to answer them. 

Main question I would have.  How to get rid of some of the more pointless topics?

1.  Politics should be a no go, instant suspension if you start the topic.  I enjoy the pointless banter, to an extent.  Some topics really really should not see the light of day, IMO.  The pointless ones always seem to involve either politics, or someone ranting.  The ranting doesn't bother me, because some people need to get things off of their chests. Politics, ugh.

2.  The MRUT.  As someone said earlier, can you split the site?  More specifically, can you make a forum based MRUT?  If you click on the general discussion, you get a MRUT from the general discussion, same with lesson planning.  People would get to what they want easier.

3.  Taking out the trash.  I'm all for the thumbs up, thumbs down thing.  IMO, people aren't going to give you a thumbs down if you post lessons, or even if you post your opinion.  When people would get thumbs down is when they are being rude/racist/dumb, etc.  Have a (albeit arbitrary) threshold in which if you get so many thumbs down, your post is auto-deleted.  If a user gets a certain amount of topics deleted, they get an IP suspension or ban.

These things leave the site open for people to communicate and ask questions, and allows new users.  It allows for the MRUT to continue, while making it more specific to a persons intentions. 
Lastly, the trolls can get the boot if they continue their trollish behavior, as decided by the people rather than by the mods.

[asabranca]

I also agree with doing away with the General Discussion forum. There are plenty of other forums for this type of discussion as you mentioned, such as Dave's or Facebook.

[jamespstyles]

Is anybody else not overly concerned about the concern over the direction that this site is taking?

[AdamVandersall]

Remove everything that isn't directly related to teaching. (General Discussion, buy and sell etc.)

[dolphingurl2022]

For me I like the site as is....yes there are some "stupid" postings here and there but overall you can find a lot of useful information.  The buying/selling part is awesome if you just came to korea and want stuff or if you're leaving and none of the people you know what anything of yours.  I also got my cat through this site.

It would be more helpful though if the recent post at the top was in categories or something so that way when i'm looking for something i don't have to read the entire list or whatever but that's something super minor. 

[daveb]

I agree there is a lot of absolute trash-talk threads coming up more frequently.

However, as the varying opinions about what do to about the site confirms one thing - it is a subjective issue and comes down to personal preference. Therefore, it must be treated as such.

I don't want to see all the garbage threads in the general news feed. However, inviting/opening membership to this great site, by proxy, gives people a right to express themselves. If you do away with one feature of this freedom - it creates a VERY sticky problem of who decides what is right/wrong and what stays and what goes. It will come back to the circular problem of subjectivity....problem, problem, problem.

I say - let people talk trash if they want to. Let people troll if they want to. No matter how hard the admins try to police the site and its policies - you will NEVER stop humans being humans.

SOLUTION: Have a general/shit talk category where all the ''Koreans don't drink enough water'' and other such inane threads can live. If people want to read them and talk crap - they can go and find it and do it.

That way, all of us who want to focus on teaching material and keeping the general look of the website focused, will NOT see it on a daily basis. The mods can quickly move any ''misplaced'' threads - rather than trying to battle and lock-out threads.
 
Trying to outlaw/ban crap talk/trolling would be like trying to ban drugs and inforce drug laws. It won't work.

What does work - having 'shooting galleries'; where people can safely, and more importantly, out of the way of the level-headed users of this great site, can do what they are going to do anyway - indulge themselves. This will happen no matter how hard you try to stamp  it out. So, control and regulate it - and allow it to happen away from the real heart of Waygook.org.

 

[Teachie]

hi i think this site is great, but some off the posts are really stupid. leave discussions but only for teaching and info of contracts. and basic information. haha and i like the buy and sell. and please dont remove the lesson plans!!

[klorptar]

Remove everything that isn't directly related to teaching. (General Discussion, buy and sell etc.)

Regardless of how any of us feel about the general discussion threads, I personally believe that the buy and sell threads are useful. Dave's isn't region specific; Waygook is. I think it's a valuable tool to be able to sell your belongings when you're ready to leave without spending a fortune in shipping.

[Jordan_In_Korea]

lmao i love ppl

if you dont like the topic of the thread, DONT READ IT!!?!??!!

no one forces you to read a thread on a forum...... if you have nothing better to do than look through every threat that pops up on the lil index about Recent Topics, than maybe you have something else you should be looking into.

There is a general discussion section for people that want to DISCUSS GENERAL topics..... its why its there.  If everyone follows the very easy theme of DONT POST IN A THREAD YOU THINK IS STUPID, the thread will get pushed out of the first few pages quickly.

I mean, i dont get the posts in this thread.  Are you people adults?  Exercise some free will and dont discuss/post in threads you dont like/agree with.  ITS THAT SIMPLE!!!

if you do post in a thread about a "disgusting" or "immature" topic, you are no better than the person who started it, so get over yourself.

[NMonk]

General discussion, what friends are for. Just saying.

I'm the only foreigner in my school, although I have great relationship with all my co-teachers there are things on my mind I can't talk about with them as a) they wouldn't understand, b) it would be inappropriate as they might be offended.

I have a lot of friends, however living on the outskirts of Seoul it's impossible to see them everyday. This means that some days it's impossible to have a conversation with a fluent English speaker about the type of topics we discuss on this forum.

What exactly is the problem with having a 'general discussion' section. No one forces anyone else to read it, if you come here only for the lessons then just go to the lessons section. What's the problem? If you're sensitive about other peoples opinions don't read threads that might offend you. It's not rocket science.

I also don't see how the 'general discussion' section could be swamping the lesson plans and making them hard to find, they're in completely different sections. Maybe because the servers get overloaded, but your servers really shouldn't be getting over loaded by the amount of traffic going through this site, if they are you need better servers.

I joined this site for the general discussion section, I neither need nor use the lesson plans on the site. I also contributed $20 to help with the payment for the servers, that more than covers my usage. Get rid of General Discussion - give me my money back, just saying.

Mods I think if you're honest the problem here is the servers getting over loaded, not the general discussion, as if people don't want to read the threads they don't have too. If it really is a problem why don't you do the following:

1) To use and download lesson plans you have to upload at least 2 quality lesson plans yourself. Mods rather than wasting your time locking threads in general discussion you can check the lesson plan contributions.

2) If people want to use the forum aspect of this site, mainly general discussion, they have to contribute at least $10 a year to pay for the load it puts on the servers.

If you do this you will get rid of free loaders who download and don't contribute, and pay for your servers. Problem solved.

[DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP]

^^

I'd happly pay ten bucks or slightly more to be able to use gen disc.  Heck, I get a lot out of it to be honest  (as others have mentioned, I have friends, have facebook etc, but this is a niche experience and really only other esl'ers can really get it and I'm the only waeygook I see during monday to friday.  And at the weekend in person, the last thing any of us want to do is talk shop - ick!)  So that said - I wouldn't mind at all giving something back, be it money, a certain number of lesson plans and materials - for a fairly moderated and fairly sanctioned forum.  Or even just have adware or whatever its called on the gen disc forum so it can pay for itself etc.

[andygarth]

There's a good chance that I'm repeating some previous ideas. I scrolled through the different pages but didn't see this idea...

Why not re-create the homepage to have 3 or 4 seperate boxes which contains a separate topic (for example: lessons, living situations, job posts, etc.) and have the most recent posts for each topic. I think the general discussion is good, but these topics unfortunately becoming the predominant topics being discussed.

[siamagoo]

What exactly is the problem with having a 'general discussion' section. No one forces anyone else to read it, if you come here only for the lessons then just go to the lessons section. What's the problem? If you're sensitive about other peoples opinions don't read threads that might offend you. It's not rocket science.

As it is now, there's no "going straight to the lesson plan" section. Once I enter the lesson plan section, still half the screen is the recently updated topics.

I do agree with that adults should have more control, and I'm disappointed with myself that I don't live up to this standard. If I were the only one with this problem I would keep my mouth shut, but clearly it's not just me. According to the poll, a majority are bothered enough to want general discussion moved or eliminated.

So, both the mods and the general population are frustrated by the direction this site is taking. Let's not ask "should we do something?" but instead ask "what should be done?"

edit: Sorry, there was some sloppy writing in this post, so let me explain how I came to use the word "majority".

The three options for the poll are "remove general discussion" (~20%), "keep general discussion" (~40%), and "keep GD but rearrange the home page" (~35%). Since this thread is about general discussion, and since no one so far has argued for making it more prominent, I jumped to the conclusion that these people wanted GD to remain but in a less prominent roll.

If you agree with this reasoning, then there are 40% happy with things as-is, and 55% wanting a change. That's not a strong majority, but it is a majority.

And if you don't agree, please point out my mistake. I'd hate to look like a fool, and would appreciate an explanation of where I went wrong.

[IslandGook]

No ads, please. 

Please keep general discussion.

Please allow filtering at the member settings level of what you see in Most Recently Updated (if you want to see only lesson plans, only check that, etc.).

Please start a tiered membership system where people who are willing to pay a fee to keep the servers up and running ($5 a month or such) get server priority.  Maybe even a different server, so that the only people who get server busy messages are the people who are using free memberships. 

or, instead of the last bit, start using torrents for all the uploads/downloads, so that Waygook's server doesn't have to deal with any of this traffic from downloads.

[hankmcmasters]

i think the content on this site has recently gotten a lot better. the biggest change has been organizing the materials section by textbooks.  thanks to mods and members that did that.  now there are usually 5 or 10 people contributing to each lesson i give, which is a lot more than a last year.

but there is also just more content in general.  some of it is crap.  but i enjoy a lot of it.  i wasnt very happy that my poll about underwear was deleted altogether. i think i can understand why, but i wasnt allowed to defend myself.  im a really skinny person, and even the XL korean underwear feels tight on me.  its difficult to find underwear that fits, i cant imagine how some of the obsese foreigners i have seen find any underwear at all.  i thought we could all have a laugh.

i think the 5 post before downloading rule was less than ideal, but it was definitely the better than all of the alternatives.  there are other websites that have pay models.  how can you check the quality of the material before you pay for it?  what if they give samples but the samples are better than the average lesson you can find on the site?  other websites have rules about ploading first, and people just upload crap.  if you want someone to audit the upolads, wouldnt that just mean more work, not less? i think the goal is tomake things better for mods, not worse.

I also think the recent rate of thread locking has gotten out of control.  Sometimes it comes down to tut tutting people for being different.  I think people need to recognize that newer members might represent a more rough and tumble set of people, not just the straight and narrow EPIK teachers.  Not to single out anyone, but confusedsafferinkorea has a lot of comments that I think reflect a general lack of openmindedness.  Is a post about big condoms ok?  Well, I wonder if you have ever tried a Korean condom.  They are very different, and I personally find them uncomfortable, even painful.  I wonder if people would rather see a thread about where to get an abortion in Korea, or a thread about big condoms?  I’m reminded of that character in the Simpsons that says “Please, somebody think of the children!”  No pun intended.  Its great to control a class and keep people from saying stupid things so that everyone can stay on task, but the internet in general and this forum in particular aren’t a school setting.  So the rules need to be different.

I for one actually sought out a more lively general discussion section late last year.  Blame desk warming if you want to.  Now it seems to be full of people who half read what others say, people who half think through what they themselves write, and outright trolls.  I think getting rid of the most recent threads would be a good experiment.  Just try it, and see if that ends the flaming.  But, I still think there is more quality, useful, helpful, and compassionate content coming out than before the big increase in members.

Waygook has definitely improved my experience in Korea by being a helpful teaching tool.  I would like it to be a fun toy too.

[Nemo]

Yea if recently updated topics were moved to the bottom of the page instead and the lesson planning section was moved up to the top I might actually click on it right away instead of getting sidetracked for 20 minutes by catchy general discussion headlines lol.

[DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP]

What exactly is the problem with having a 'general discussion' section. No one forces anyone else to read it, if you come here only for the lessons then just go to the lessons section. What's the problem? If you're sensitive about other peoples opinions don't read threads that might offend you. It's not rocket science.

As it is now, there's no "going straight to the lesson plan" section. Once I enter the lesson plan section, still half the screen is the recently updated topics.

I do agree with that adults should have more control, and I'm disappointed with myself that I don't live up to this standard. If I were the only one with this problem I would keep my mouth shut, but clearly it's not just me. According to the poll, a minority are bothered enough to want general discussion moved or eliminated.

So, both the mods and the general population are frustrated by the direction this site is taking. Let's not ask "should we do something?" but instead ask "what should be done?"

Edited based on actual real world dictionary definitions of the words 'Majority' and 'Minority.'

(The original writer siad a 'Majority' but the poll clearly indicates otherwise....)