Coming to school with a hangover is unprofessional.

[Chocolate Starfish]

It seems that we must stay on topic within a thread.  So please, do not stray from the title of this thread.

Oh, and I don't care if some Koreans do it.  It's still unprofessional because you can't do your job.

[Incredagogue]

I agree that coming to work with a hangover is unprofessional, but I also feel that it is an occasional fact life for many people in various careers.

The problem for teachers here is that it is in fact very easy to do a passable job whilst hungover. This encourages people to come in hungover far too often. Frequent hangovers are dangerously unprofessional, and show that you aren't taking your job seriously.

I would argue that keeping it to a minimum, and doing your best to mitigate any effect it may have on your performance (wake up early, shower, hydrate, etc) is a realistic expectation of an employee in almost any field (barring surgeons, pilots and such).

[DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP]

Please understand and respect Korean culture.  Things that you thought were okay back home may not be applicable here and you cannot impose them on others.

Mr Kim, head of the Eng dept at a high school I worked at would insist on taking me out a cpl of nights a week to drink and eat.  The next day he would always clap me on the back and congratulate me on being 'strong teacher' and telling me I had good stomach like a Korean.

Now this wasn't unprofessional in his eyes or mine or my co-workers (though it may be in yours) as it served to strengthen our working relationship and make good jeong at the school.  In korea relationships are often more important than results.  And if I was a bit hungover or still slightly drunk even, my students thought I was more jemisoyo and felt closer to me, honestly.  In a classroom where half the kids are sleeping from the exhaustion of being at hakwans till after midnight and your co-teacher condones it and her only advice is 'love them please' and any form of discipline, even the mildest reprimands or penalties is frowned on and all they want is games and songs - trust me, being in an altered state of mind can be more help than hinderance!

Standards of what is or isn't professional differ from culture to culture.

[klorptar]

It seems that we must stay on topic within a thread.  So please, do not stray from the title of this thread.

Oh, and I don't care if some Koreans do it.  It's still unprofessional because you can't do your job.

It's not a topic. It's a statement. You trollin', playa.

[Zeegs]

The sky is blue. Water is wet. This isn't really a discussion worth having. It's just an obvious statement.

[gilbert.a.h]

I completely agree. I made a similar comment on the thread dealing with coming to work with a hangover, and it was also removed. I feel that it is important that, while we foreigners are here in Korea, to be professional, as we would do with any other job we would have in our own countries.

[DejaVu]

I disagree.

And I am not off-topic for doing so.  You introduced an ethical debate and should therefore accept opinions of differing views.

Learn to deal logic, please.

[Waygookingumisi]

I;ve just gotto say that I had a teacher american guy, who used to come into the school pretty still out drunken from the night because he knew that the teacher well waygook teacher could get away with this, he does it all the time and still gets away from it everytime. Drinking soju till 4am and awake at 8 is unacceptable behavior and he came into the room starting his lesson and was swaying in the classroom,. now tell me this is bad right? Ths was in a school in Jeomchon in middle of the country where it's very populated. I don't drink at all mid-week for the obvious reasons I like to keep a good mind going and avoid feeling sick next day. The teacher was asked by his co-worker also have you been drinking, because could actually smell soju on his breath still! She said to him "don't do it again" because the school would never fire a teacher for this, they think that this is okay, to do this I think not really. 

[Davox]

It seems that we must stay on topic within a thread.  So please, do not stray from the title of this thread.

Oh, and I don't care if some Koreans do it.  It's still unprofessional because you can't do your job.

Welcome to Korea.  Where social harmony (ie, not being antisocial) and the ability to do you job (most teachers here can, even while hungover) is more important than specifically "western" definitions of professionalism. 

Oh, and for the record: by "western" values of professionalism, like the ones you're championing here, posting non-work specific messages on external forums during work hours using work computers and work internet counts as unprofessional.  It's theft, technically.  Back home, we can all be fired for what we have just done now. Presuming that you don't want to be fired, there's something to be said for Korean ideas about professionalism.

[klorptar]

It's also hard to take seriously any statements concerning professionalism made by a person whose name is a euphemism for an anus. Just sayin', Chocolate Starfish.

[peanuts72]

sigh, kIlling people is bad.

FFS who starts these threads!

[doolin.nc]

I can work just fine with a hangover. Mind your own business, Mr. Self-righteous.

I don't live in Korea (I live in the States) but I interact with clients on a daily basis and no one ever knows. I take some medication for my hangover and I'm on my way.

[flasyb]

It seems that we must stay on topic within a thread.  So please, do not stray from the title of this thread.

Oh, and I don't care if some Koreans do it.  It's still unprofessional because you can't do your job.

I can function well on a hangover. Used to do it all the time in Peru and get up for my 7am class, Monday to Friday. Obviously, I function better without a hangover but I can definitely do my job with a hangover, no questions asked. If there are people who can't, well that's their problem to deal with how they wish. That's not to say that I go out drinking on week nights, in fact I don't at all (small rural town, not much opportunity).

You think it's unprofessional. You think I can't do my job.
I think it's neither unprofessional nor professional if kept to an occasional thing - it's just something that happens every now and then when my co-teachers invite me out. I can do my job with a hangover.

[travish65742]

Oh, and for the record: by "western" values of professionalism, like the ones you're championing here, posting non-work specific messages on external forums during work hours using work computers and work internet counts as unprofessional.  It's theft, technically.  Back home, we can all be fired for what we have just done now. Presuming that you don't want to be fired, there's something to be said for Korean ideas about professionalism.
[/quote]

Exactly. How is spending half of the work day on this site any more professional? Geez people

[S.Lee]

it IS possible to go out drinking with coworkers/coteacher and not drink so much that you end up drunk or with a hangover....
just cuz the soju glass is around the same size as a shot glass doesnt mean it has to be treated as one.
its ok to not "one shot" a glass of soju. just drink a bit of it. one soju glass can easily last 4 or 5 sips if you want it to.
if you're male you might get some flack from other korean male teachers, but its ok to say " i cant drink too much, im allergic" or something along those lines, and drink a little to show courtesy

thats how i avoid going to work hungover. tired yes, but not hungover.

[k.l.]

It seems that we must stay on topic within a thread.  So please, do not stray from the title of this thread.

Oh, and I don't care if some Koreans do it.  It's still unprofessional because you can't do your job.

Welcome to Korea.  Where social harmony (ie, not being antisocial) and the ability to do you job (most teachers here can, even while hungover) is more important than specifically "western" definitions of professionalism. 

Oh, and for the record: by "western" values of professionalism, like the ones you're championing here, posting non-work specific messages on external forums during work hours using work computers and work internet counts as unprofessional.  It's theft, technically.  Back home, we can all be fired for what we have just done now. Presuming that you don't want to be fired, there's something to be said for Korean ideas about professionalism.

To be fair, the OP posted this during lunch hours...so, it's technically their free time. I don't think equating the two is fair. Yes, in some countries, coming to work hung over is unprofessional.

I would think the OP would rather start a topic like, overdrinking during weekdays can affect job performance the following day as a hangover does not allow you to perform at peak performance and thus impares what I consider to be professionalism.

I think coming to work with a terrible cold is also disruptive to my co-workers, makes the quality of my lessons go down and generally makes my day terrible. It does not diminish my professionalism. I had the choice to take a sick day, but didn't because in Korea, you are expected to come to work.

[flasyb]

I would think the OP would rather start a topic like, overdrinking during weekdays can affect job performance the following day as a hangover does not allow you to perform at peak performance and thus impares what I consider to be professionalism.

Perhaps that could be a sub-topic of a thread called "stating the obvious".

Ultimately, in this thread, nobody is going to say that it's a good idea or professional to go out and get drunk a few nights a week but at the same time if it's once a twice a month, few people are going to say that the person doing that deserves to be fired. We should draw a line under it and lock it or something. I'm starting to regret commenting in the first place so I'm out.

[ka-eel]

You should have just started a topic that called: I'm better than you degenerates

Seriously there's way too much of this kind of thing on here...

A lot of the posts on here I just want to respond like:  We get it... you dont drink that much, you are very responsible, you don't get pets because its wrong to abandon an animal, you respect Korean culture and history and you are generally superior to all the dog abusing drunken ignoramuses that you feel give foreigners like you a bad name.

It's not to say a lot of that isn't true... I just hate the self-righteousness tone of some posters...

It's tiring to read messages with that tone.

Just my thoughts, sorry if it offends anyone.

Sorry if I offend anyone with this message.

[petergrant86]

yeah it is unprofessional i do agree, but in all honesty I've taught some of my best/most sucessful classes hungover. So the statement that it's unprofessional "because you can't do your job" in MY OPINION is incorrect.  That statement apply to most people, but not all people, I think what it boils down to is how you handle yourself

Firstly make sure you smell OK, use breathmints... you don't want to be breathing down a students neck smelling like soju... what standards do you set.

Secondly try not to be angry with the world... IT was YOU and not the world who decided to go drinking the night before.

Lastly... don't do it often... if you do it once in a while (because you went drinking with your teachers/principle, which could be a good thing) then thats fine... just don't do it everyweek, like bordline alcholism... theres no need for that... you need to have a sense of responsibility.

I'm not gonna lie... i love my drinking, but i save it for weekends.

[Say what?!]

You should have just started a topic that called: I'm better than you degenerates

Seriously there's way too much of this kind of thing on here...

A lot of the posts on here I just want to respond like:  We get it... you dont drink that much, you are very responsible, you don't get pets because its wrong to abandon an animal, you respect Korean culture and history and you are generally superior to all the dog abusing drunken ignoramuses that you feel give foreigners like you a bad name.

It's not to say a lot of that isn't true... I just hate the self-righteousness tone of some posters...

It's tiring to read messages with that tone.

Just my thoughts, sorry if it offends anyone.

Sorry if I offend anyone with this message.

Don't apologize for telling the truth.  There are a lot of obnoxious folks who post on this board.