Crossing legs on subway.... smack smack! ><

[taeyang]

In that video the old woman's pants got dirty from the girl.  The girl apologized twice and then said something that in informal Korean.  That is why the woman acted the way she did.  But that woman also has a reputation for acting like that on the subway.  That was not the first time she did something like that. 

At the end the girl was screaming to her dad on the phone that she hated Korea.

thanks for clarifying that.

[SUTIIVE]

k................. so off topic much?

Ummmmmmm.........no. the thread continues to talk about aggression in the subways and what to do about it. The only digression from the post is the introduction of other examples.

Off topic would be if we were talking about juggling unicorns.

Please nobody start talking about juggling unicorns.....

[leatherhat]

That's some crazy ajuma battle action, leatherhat. Quite frightening actually.

At the time it happened, opinions were divided over who was more in the wrong. A lot of people were more critical of the girl for saying 'I hate Korea!' than they were of the old woman's behavior. Personally, I'm a big believer in an honest apology...if someone does something wrong and honestly apologizes, then that's enough for me.

A lot of people just stood around and did nothing at the beginning of the fight, but a lot of people, to their credit, got into an argument with the ajuma to embarrass her into behaving, after she pushed the girl around. Yes, Korea is a society where elders are respected, but that doesn't mean old people can treat others like crap. If I had been the girl I would have grabbed the old grouch, thrown her off the train and warned her never to come back.


If you ever find yourself in that situation, the best thing to do is to keep your distance...but start shouting at the two of them as loud as you can in English. Say whatever you want, recite the national anthem or your favorite lines from Monty Python, whatever. Usually the two people fighting end up so confused and embarrassed because they can't understand what you're saying, it breaks up the situation pretty quickly. In Korea people are more afraid of being embarrassed than of being hit.

[Davey]

Please stick to the topic, which is whether people have been criticized for crossing their legs in Korea.

thanks!

[justanotherwaygook]

Older people consider it rude to cross your legs, and it's a no-no during job interviews, for either men or women. In Southeast Asia it's disrespectful to point your feet at someone; feet are considered dirty as they are the lowest part of the body.

Also, older people in Korea find it irritating if you are standing on a bus or subway and you jiggle your leg. According to superstition, all the good luck in your body will run out your pant leg if you do so...

Four years ago, this fight broke out on the Seoul subway. A 14 year-old middle school girl was sitting with her legs crossed, and an old woman took offense. She chewed out the girl repeatedly even though the girl apologized twice. Finally the girl lost patience with her and started to talk back. The ajuma exploded and started pulling her hair and throwing her around. It was headline news for a day or so.

That was way less than 4 years ago.  4 months, maybe

[leatherhat]

Oops! You're right. Misread the date on the youtube version of the video.

[RatnaMH]

Mother of god that was vicious...

[H.W.]

i once had a native korean friend tell me that the reason he couldn't do anything or respond to old men and women that reprimand him physically/vocally because (his words) "they are my grandparents." regardless of blood relation or not it makes sense they why they do it under such an authoritarian culture. i hate to pull the "it's their country card" especially since it would piss me off too and i do sympathize, but i think that's where these actions fall. imagine having thousands of grandmothers and grandfathers everywhere at all times watching everything you do. if you can understand that, then maybe you might be able to tolerate the reactions a little more if not completely.

fyi: if you check the korail website and/or watch some of the video streams on the subway occasionally, they politely inform you crossing your legs is rude.

The thing to remember though is that in Korea, you are a foreigner.  They are not your grandparents, and I highly doubt they think of themselves as such.  The exception being Asian people who look Korean and probably kyopos.  On second thought maybe that's too cynical...  but my grandparents never smacked me in public, and I turned out fine.

[snafuman]

Be careful around adjummas on the subway. They are vicious.

[kiwikimchi]

After watching the video of that old hag assulting that girl, it really shows that you are on your own if something happens.
Why didn't any one step up and help break it up? I know Koreans don't like to get involved in other peoples doings, but it really pisses me off seeing people stand by and refuse to help in these situations.

Prime example: I was waiting for my bus one day and saw a car vs one of those food delivery motorbikes. The biker got clipped and was catapolted in the air 10 meters and landed head/shoulder first int a steel pole. He didn't move. Lots of people looking but no one went to help. I was astounded!!! This guy may well of been dying infront of us on the street and people were walking around him like nothing had happened. I ended up going over and giving him first aid until the ambos came. The driver who clipped him did eventually come over. The guy had a broken pelvis, clavicle, and arm.

Of course firstly take your own safety into consideration. If someone needs help you help them. I don't care what country you are from. 

[justanotherwaygook]

After watching the video of that old hag assulting that girl, it really shows that you are on your own if something happens.
Why didn't any one step up and help break it up? I know Koreans don't like to get involved in other peoples doings, but it really pisses me off seeing people stand by and refuse to help in these situations.

Prime example: I was waiting for my bus one day and saw a car vs one of those food delivery motorbikes. The biker got clipped and was catapolted in the air 10 meters and landed head/shoulder first int a steel pole. He didn't move. Lots of people looking but no one went to help. I was astounded!!! This guy may well of been dying infront of us on the street and people were walking around him like nothing had happened. I ended up going over and giving him first aid until the ambos came. The driver who clipped him did eventually come over. The guy had a broken pelvis, clavicle, and arm.

Of course firstly take your own safety into consideration. If someone needs help you help them. I don't care what country you are from.

There's no protection for people who try to help.  Korea does not have Good Samaritan Laws.  If you try to help, and inadvertently cause harm, you are responsible, even if you acted reasonably.

[duchessrachel]

ahah! A couple years ago, I was teaching at a kindergarten and had to do an open class for parents. I was sitting cross-legged alone in the middle of the room, waiting for students and parents to arrive when a co-teacher came in and patted my legs and said "Sit NICE!" I had no idea what she was talking about, thinking "hey, in my culture, crossing your legs IS sitting nice." I didn't realize this was a cultural thing in Korea.

As for the rule on the subway that you can't sit cross-legged-- Is there a rule for all those old ajoshis not to sit SPREAD EAGLE taking up sooo much room from people sitting beside them?

[catfish99]

That video is quite upsetting.  And the fact that no one came to the girls' aid is even worse- in what kind of place am I living?

I completely agree!!!

[Pin]

As for the rule on the subway that you can't sit cross-legged-- Is there a rule for all those old ajoshis not to sit SPREAD EAGLE taking up sooo much room from people sitting beside them?

Actually, if you look on some trains, there's a list of things that are not so good to do on subways with convenient (and usually hilarious) cartoon illustrations to go along with them.  One of the pictures was of an ajeosshi sitting spread eagle next to two very disgruntled people.

They know it's not so considerate... but after a day (and perhaps, a night) of working, I can imagine why they might not care.

[bigboy]

Weird,    I've lived in Korea for 3 years and I always cross my legs on the subway...  I've also never been scolded or tapped on the leg.     i can assure you if it was in a rude manner I would be the first person to flip out.      Maybe Koreans can since this with me and that is part of the reason.    I'm also a 6'1 man.    Maybe that also has something to do with it.   ::)

[tywhitney]

While I understand that crossing the legs may be rude, I find it all too common for people to call the "culture card." We are living in one of the largest cities in the world. Just by straight percentages, a certain amount of people are going to be jerks. So to the OP I say, don't look into why it happened too much. I'm sorry that it happened to you, but perhaps the answer as to why it has happened to you (twice no less) is that there are just a certain percentage of mean people in the world. The bigger the population, the more likely you are to run into people looking to be aggressive. Sure culture probably plays into it, but at the end of the day it sounds like you just ran into a couple of mean disgruntled old men on the subway. If it wasn't your crossed legs it may have been someones shirt or dress or whatever they could find upsetting about their surroundings in order to justify a confrontation. 

[aldritg]

I was told the second week I was here to never cross your legs or lean back in your chair in front of an older person.  In Korean culture, it is considered rude.  Of course, if you are a man you are less likely to hear about it.  Often times, Westerners are cut some slack because 'they don't know any better' but once in awhile someone will feel the need to teach you a lesson.

Like women smoking outside in public.  I know for women it's frowned upon, but my female friends do it.  Usually, nothing happens but they have told me stories of an Ajumma slapping the cigarette out of their hand on one occasion in their year and a half here.  This sounds like the same thing. 

Also, in the area around the King Sejong statue, it's illegal to smoke for Koreans, but legal for foreigners because 'how could they possibly know?'  That doesn't mean if you try to take a picture in front of Sejong with a cigarette in your mouth you won't draw some unwanted attention.

[rowdes]

I agree with aldritg, it's considered rude to cross your legs. I learnt this lesson on my first day at school where I crossed my legs in front of the principal!! I remember the shock on my co teachers face hahaha.

[k.l.]

While I understand that crossing the legs may be rude, I find it all too common for people to call the "culture card." We are living in one of the largest cities in the world. Just by straight percentages, a certain amount of people are going to be jerks. So to the OP I say, don't look into why it happened too much. I'm sorry that it happened to you, but perhaps the answer as to why it has happened to you (twice no less) is that there are just a certain percentage of mean people in the world. The bigger the population, the more likely you are to run into people looking to be aggressive. Sure culture probably plays into it, but at the end of the day it sounds like you just ran into a couple of mean disgruntled old men on the subway. If it wasn't your crossed legs it may have been someones shirt or dress or whatever they could find upsetting about their surroundings in order to justify a confrontation.

Yes, one of the biggest cities in the world....that 50 years ago was part of a large agricultural society that has changed dramatically...so...those older people that were raised with their parents smacking their legs and were told that when you are older people must respect you...yeah, all of that goes out the window because some invited foreign nationals don't like it. What a culture card. More than half a century, in many cases, many more years of a rooted system of politeness and reaction to what people perceive as rude..what rubbish.

Let's post a sign about this...just like the no spreading legs sign and walk on the right campaign. I'm sure we can change this overnight!!!!

OR...we can see it for what it is. Old dog can't learn new tricks. Don't blow up, don't act like a clown. Learn the language and tell them that you don't like to be hit, please refrain from doing so. 

[meljwalds]

I've been in Korea for nearly 9 months and had no idea that crossing your legs was considered rude. How did I miss this?!  So have I been offending my classes when I sit cross-legged in order to prevent them from seeing up my skirt? I'm confused...

Well anyway, this is good to know, but it will be hard breaking the habit (especially now that it's springtime and I'm wearing skirts more often!)