Being told to "Just ignore him/her"...

[patch83]

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[firebreaker]

I would warn the kid 3 times. The third time, I'd say, "One more time and you'll be in the hallway."  I wouldn't say anything to my co-teacher. I'd just do it. When he/she doesn't listen, I'd make him/her stand up and wait while I move a desk in the hallway, then put him/her outside the class and simply state that is where he/she gets to sit for the rest of class. At a desk, in the hallway.

Next time, you probably won't have a problem. It's shameful for them, so he/she will straighten up.

[conorsean]

I normally choose the hard way of not ignoring them and always being on top of them making sure they are doing the work, sitting in their seat, not talking, not throwing things, not stealing pencil cases and not giving other students the finger. Although due to the amount of stress it brings me I'm not sure I'd recommend it. If I was able to just ignore it, I probably would - just for the sake of my own sanity.

[Summer]

Has anyone tried making the student apologize to the class for wasting everyone's time?

Just get the kid to stand up, formally apologize, sit back down. Or does that count as "embarrassing" the student and is not allowed? =_=

[VizionMC]

a)  many threads about classroom discipline that you might find helpful

b)  how in the world can you effectively conduct class with badly misbehaving students?  i cannot tolerate much chatter
     while i'm speaking, let alone other blatant misbehavior

c)  discipline the student however u feel fit- it's your class.  attempt to minimize collateral damage in the form of others
     acting up while u r disciplining, or wasting too much class time while disciplining.  (check out some prior links on this
     matter) 

[Bump]

All I can say is discipline is a hard thing to come by for many teachers here in Korea.  Unless a strict co-teacher is in the room, I've found that most classes (esp. afterschool classes) generally devolve into pure chaos...even with stares of death, shouting commands, dragging kids out of the room, etc. 

[Ollie84]

Misbehaving students have a tendancy to distract other students. As a teacher you must have the full attention of students when you are talking or explaining things. Misbehaving should be dealt with immediately.

[pizza hamburger]

I'd go with the flow for the moment (rather than interrupt the lesson further to argue the merits of punishing this child), and after class, if it really bothered me, talk with the coteacher and ask him why he said to let it go, listen to his thoughts, and share my thoughts on the topic.

Whether or not I discipline a student depends on the moment.  If he's disrupting the class, of course.  If he's not, then I have to ask myself if it's worth it to take time from the lesson (and my other students' attention from the lesson, as they'll be curious as to what's going on) in order to discipline the kid.  If it's a kid who is fairly advanced and understands the lesson, and he's just doodling quietly, I'd half-ignore it.  I wouldn't call attention to it, but I'd make a note to change my lesson and presentation to be more engaging for this student (and possibly other students who are just as bored but don't appear it).  It might be something as simple as calling on the kid more.

There's a lot of ways to correct a kid's behavior without bringing attention to it or disciplining, though, like if you catch the kid's eye, give him a disapproving look (but don't stare at the kid, or the other kids will start looking at him and be distracted by him).  You can also use proximity -- getting closer to a student will at times correct their behavior (if it doesn't, though, the other kids could start looking at the kid and get distracted).  Students will also discipline each other.  I don't allow tattletales, but sometimes a student will remind another student of the rules and that's the end of that.

As far as sending kids outside, I personally wouldn't recommend it.  If you're going to do it, maybe do it for a minute or two, no more than five minutes at any given time.  While the kid isn't being fair to the other students he's distracting, your duty isn't to teach kids but only if they're good and do what you say.  Your duty is to teach them all, good and bad, whether they like it or not (although persuading them to like learning is a part of your job, too), and if you kick a kid out of class, you've failed him in your duty.

[hannahlumurphy]

my co-teachers are mostly terrible at disciplining students, although it's mainly a problem of a lack of cohesion. I work in a very rowdy school and in each class I have two co-teachers. If one of my co-teachers is at the front trying to help me discipline students the other one is at the back joking around with them. And this is usually the senior staff member who commands the most respect and who could save us a lot of time by cracking down a bit more frequently.

Honestly, it is tough and I find myself, like you, being a bit of a hard bitch to the students. Because if I'm not, then nothing will happen. I can't ignore the trouble makers, they drown everything out and totally disrupt other students. I also like to wait and make eye contact with the co-worker who I feel is not supporting me during class. If they see me waiting for them to stop talking, I think it shames them into pulling it together a bit. That probably sounds horrible, but I do get sick of trying to control classes of 40 by myself when the people who have the real authority just sit back and enjoy themselves.

Sending kids out of the classroom doesn't work in my school as the kids just open the windows and disrupt the class from there. And I'm not allowed to close the windows as it's 'too hot.' ....my heart bleeds.

What I do like to do is whack on extra time when the students are bad so they end up staying behind after class, or making them write boring lines instead of playing the game. Also get their names and tell their home-room teacher. The home-room teacher really doesn't like being told their students are bad.

[wong812]

Misbehaving students have a tendancy to distract other students. As a teacher you must have the full attention of students when you are talking or explaining things. Misbehaving should be dealt with immediately.

Totally agree. Isolate them if possible; put them on at the front or the back on a table by themselves. I have a number of students who are noisy trouble makers and the kids tell me their K teachers take this step.

[Rootleaf]

I've had a similar situation. The discipline was quick and swift though. The troublemaker had thrown an object at another student. My coteacher brought the student outside of the class. I continued my lesson and 5 minutes later they returned. He looked like he had seen a ghost. I want to know what she said to him...

But that's my class with my amazing coteacher. On other days when I have a less than engaging teacher I find myself yelling and disciplining a lot more than I ever intended. The whole shaming them in front of their peers does wonders though. Ignoring seems to only exacerbate the problem. On the other hand, I try to set aside special activities and one-on-one time with some of the children with autism. Still much more than I had anticipated.

[Yu_Bumsuk]

This can come down to on of two things: (a) the kid has problems you don't know about and is best left alone; (b) your CT is lazy and apathetic and needs to think about how he should do his job.

How old is this kid and, if in HS, is it academic or vocational?

[DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP]

What I've learned over the years is that no Korean kid, Korean parent or Korean employer wants a waygook to discipline them or their children.

The sollution every job I've worked at to dealing with studetns like these is to give a few mild warnings and then just put him / her in a room by themselves with some work to get on with or let them hang in the wongjanims office with her.  Don't try to discipline the kid as that doesn't work for us (compare how they behave in yor class and then secretly spy on a few classes with only K teachers) - the key is to just get them out of the classroom so as you can get on with the class.

[alexandrateacher]

Ok I've had lots of problems with problem children.  Last semester I didn't have any rules in place, which lead to wayyy too many problems.  So here's what I did on the first day of class this year (ppt attached).

Even so, I've still had some problems with children.  Have your co-teacher talk with his/her homeroom teacher.  Although it puts more stress on that teacher, it will help you (and I'm sure many more teachers who inevitably have the same problems) in the long run.

I don't believe that it's ok for this child's behavior to go unnoticed and undisciplined.  If my children are excessively disruptive they go outside the classroom and have to watch through the windows.  If there is a worksheet, the student must complete the worksheet.  Also, I check my students' worksheets before they leave my class.  If it's not finished, they must stay and complete it, ultimately taking away their free time.

With some co-teachers, they are more of the discipline runners, with other co-teachers, it's really all up to me.  Don't be afraid to take control.  Your co-teachers and students look at this time as YOUR class...make it YOUR class.  Take control!!!  You can do it!  :)

[Paul]

just put him / her in a room by themselves with some work to get on with

I seem to recall reading something about not being allowed to stick a kid outside the classroom just the other week. The comment came from a fellow native teacher, so not something I've ever been informed of officially, but worth raising here just to be on the safe side. Is this a national regulation, or a local MOE one? Anyone know anything concrete on this?

[Yu_Bumsuk]

What I've learned over the years is that no Korean kid, Korean parent or Korean employer wants a waygook to discipline them or their children.

The sollution every job I've worked at to eling with studetns liek these is a few mild warning and then just put him / her in a room by themselves with some work to get on with or let them hang in the wongjanims office with her.  Don't try to discipline the kid as that doesn't work for us (compare how they behave in yor class and then secretly spy on a few classes with only K teachers) - the key is to just get them out of the classroom so as you can get on with the class.

It works for me ... 90% of the time. What I've learned is that no Korean teacher wants to discipline kids for things that are directly related to your teaching, though many of them still helpfully will. And when you think about it, you could take 'Korean' out of that last sentence and replace it with 'other' and it would make even more sense.

[DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP]

@ ybs - I've found the opposite to be the case.  We all have different experiences I guess.

I also don't find your last sentence to ring true at all.  In my country for example a parent would have zero problem with a foriegn person in a position of authority like a teacher discipling their child if it was warranted.

[leo fuchigami]

i'm going to have to disagree with most people on here. this isn't a yes/no problem. every student's situation is different.
some want attention
some enjoy rebellion
some are just naturally restless
some are extremely bored
etc.
every semester i teach my classes go from bad to good midway through. the reason is because i keep switching students around on a bi-weekly basis until i can find an optimal configuration for the first 2 months or so.
here are some of the solutions i've found:
-putting a disruptive student that doesn't contribute beside another slightly disruptive student does contribute often has a net positive effect. they both end up speaking more and hi-5'ing each other and such when they perform well.
-some students are better in the front, some in the back
-have a co-teacher sit with the problem student with a few classes. get her to feed him some of the answers. once he starts getting answers correctly and gets cheered on by the class and the teacher's he'll start to realize that it's better to get attention in a positive way rather than negative. this particular tactic has worked wonders. i managed to turn the WORST kid in the school (according to all of my co-teachers) into a productive, comedic member of the class. the boy was actually quite intelligent, but he was having terrible family issues at home which reflected in his degrading personality over the last year.
-WORST CASE SCENARIO: ask your co-teacher if she'd be willing to teach him 1v1 during your class in a separate room. she/he'd teach the exact same material at the same time, but in a 1v1 setting in another room. in this way, he gets his education and you get a class without him. this will only work if you think you can teach the class better without him and the coteacher vs with both.
-also, some kids simply can't be helped. if they're both rebellious and their level is so low that there's just no way to incorporate his participation without negatively impacting the rest of the class, then ignore him for the greater good.

[dancesonhertoes]

I took an Educational Psycology class in College, and ignoring behavior was actually a discipline method.  As someone else mentioned THERE IS NO ANSWER THAT WORKS WITH EVERY STUDENT - no magical solution. 

This method was because many students act out for attention because they for whatever reason feel like the need attention, and negative attention is better than no attention to them.  I think that perhaps this might be the case for many students in Korea because parent's work schedules are so demanding as well as students study schedules.  So, by removing the reward (attention) they will eventually stop the behavior.

Obviously this isn't always the reason or appropriate response, and if you're not careful, it can cause other students to believe its allowable behavior and then the whole class is out of control.

I think you need to assess the situation and see if that might be the reason the student is acting out, and if you can effectively ignore it without it spreading, and perhaps talk to your coteachers to see if this is the reason they want you to ignore it.  Plenty of times my coteachers have reasons for doing what they are doing, but don't seem to think that it's important to tell me the reasons, so I'm sitting there wondering what the hell they are (or not) thinking. 

[Koter]

Putting students outside the classroom.

This is against the student's right to an education.
Sure they are infringing the right's of others by being disruptive but they can still pull the card that you took away the right to participate in English class.
The legal way to do it is to send one student or co-teacher to get the VP or hagwonjang to bring the student away to receive a "special" educational experience or counseling.