Author Topic: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)  (Read 2076 times)

Offline genesis99

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Hey guys
This will be my very first post. yay^^
I work in an elementary school in Seoul for SMOE.
In general I love it. Teachers are nice. Kids are funny and cute.
This is my second year and I really wonder what it'd be like to teach older students.
I'm majoring M.A. in TESOL and I'll be done by this winter (hopefully).
I'm also thinking to switch to a middle or high school after that for new experience.
On the other hand, my friends tell me not to saying it's much better to teach in elementary schools. To certain aspect I understand because the changes I've been noticing among students as they get older. (3rd vs. 6th)
How about the middle/high school students?? How are they?
How are the lessons? Do you co-teach with a Korean teacher all the time like in elementary schools? What is it like in general?!

Offline TeacherIsDie

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2010, 12:08:12 pm »
if you haven't really gotten the hang of actual (granted, though, still esl) teaching at the elementary school level, in my opinion high school is much harder. If you want to really excel at it, get yourself some more experience before moving up. No one in their first year of teaching experience is nearly as good as they think they are (myself included at the time), and to excel in a high school is usually a humbling experience, so if you want to kick ass, you gotta have more time spent than your probably do right now.

Offline be the ball

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2010, 12:16:27 pm »
Middle School is my favorite age. But instead of offering a pointless opinion like "Middle School is Hell", I will tell you why I like it and you can decide for yourself.

First the positives:

M1 students start over. They were totally cocky as 6th graders but when they get to MS, they go back to being fun and obedient. It's an amazing change to witness. They are my favorite grade to teach.

You have a lot fewer obligations as a MS teacher. There are less teacher social events, schools are bigger and less gossipy, you can just teach and go home. I like this. I don't need school to give me my social life.

There will generally be fewer lesson plans per week to create. I only do one lesson a week, myself.

There seem to be more "days off", where the students are taking tests etc and you just have to hang out. Gives you plenty of time to design great lessons while at school.

Negatives:

Classes are 45 minutes instead of 40.

Elementary school teachers in general are "funner". The teacher's rooms at MS are more business like.

Class sizes are probably a tad larger.


Just my opinion

Offline amycock

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2010, 12:17:12 pm »
Hey!

I think it just depends on the school, teachers and students. I'm in elementary and some of my classes are unbelievable!!!!!!! I have 2 co-teachers. They are little buggers in grade 3/4 and since my co-teacher change grade they are really behaving badly because when i discipline she doesn't assist in helping me control the class or reinforces anything i say like you have to stay after class for 5 minutes if you keep throwing things shouting etc... She just lets them go?  But my co-teacher is really good at dscipline in my grade 5/6 classes he's quite scary and the kids are fun because they listen more. I am considering staying another year and if it stays like this i think i will change schools. Poss another elementary but my boyfriend is at middle and he enjoys it, kids are kids in any school but he says it sounds harder at my school to control them because they are younger, middle kids understand a bit more to which is a bonus, and elementary lessons can be really boring.

But it really does depend on the school and if you are really enjoying it and have it good at your school, another school could be hell. Maybe if you consider a middle school, as around to see whos leaving one, see if its a good school first and then ask to go there.

Amy

Offline amycock

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2010, 12:19:01 pm »
\Sorry i didnt read that through!

They are little buggers in grade 3/4 and since my co-teacher changed they are really behaving badly

Offline KALM

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2010, 12:41:48 pm »
I am teaching in Middle School and I would give away my first born to switch to Elementary.  I do feel however it can very much depend on your school.

First...I have 6 co-teachers--- which are all very different, since there are so many it is hard to develop close relationships with all of them and it is also hard to please them all. 

Second... I have to use the text book to teach which can be a good base, but really really boring and either too hard or too easy for the kids, as my classes are split into levels.

Last...It is much more challenging to make learning "fun" in Middle School.  Sure I try out some games and it might work for one class--- but then they are bored and never want to see that game again.  There are a few really nice kids that want to learn and talk, but for every good one there are a few bad... (in my case anyways)

The only positives that I have working here is that besides my afterschool classes I only have to make 2 base lessons a week and then tweak them for the three levels.

Offline Janitor

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2010, 01:14:11 pm »
I have spent the last 2 years teaching in a middle school and like most of the above comments, it can be fun and it can be hell, it is all based on how you look at the situation. I will try and list the +'s and -'s of my school.

Positives:
1) I get my own fancy classroom that is my own responsibility. I decorate it, organize it and make sure it is clean. During the breaks the students come to hang out and read comic books and play games. A lot of the students just want to relax in the "lounge" part of my classroom.
2) I have 5 co-teachers and they are great! There are a few that I have minor personality issues with, but overall they are great and very professional.
3) If classes are organized properly, they run smoothly and without a hitch. I am not a big fan of singing and dancing and neither are middle school students, so the lessons that I make are interesting for me to teach as well.
4) Lots of prep time thanks to random days off and excellent schedules. These days my schedule is great and thanks to exams, sports days, government testing. Most of the time I have my afternoons free to work on my lessons and whatnot. The school pretty much leaves me alone and I like that.
5) I am treated like just another teacher. I have my own responsibilities that are close to that of a regular teacher. In most of my dealings with elementary schools (I've been in Korea for 7 years) I played the part as "edu-tainer" and that got old fast. Here, I am treated the same as every other teacher and nothing extra gets dumped on my plate just because I am a foreigner.
6) Students can be more mature and they can relate to you a little bit more. It doesn't happen often but there are a few students that are cool and like to just have a conversation.

Negatives:
1) When the students are bad, they are really bad. When my students act up, it is a real eye opener. Violent out bursts, theft, vandalism, smoking, and whatnot happen on a daily basis at my school. Windows are broken so often we now buy extras.
2) Co-teachers are often too busy to come to class, help out, or pass on information. It is hard sometimes because a lot of my co-teachers work really hard, but have trouble coming to class/ participating in class or giving messages about the schedule or whatnot.
3) Business first. I find the the administration and Principles to be less friendly and more business like. Thus, there is no leverage for extra time off or anything like that.
4) Puberty. Yes, most of my students are going through that difficult time and thus are weird to the point of being downright evil. This is also what gets them out of trouble a lot. It is sometimes tough to deal with and there is a huge change from the awesome first graders to my horrible second graders.
5) Class sizes and noise. The average class that I have is about 37 students. I teach for 45 minutes straight. The students, especially now after exams and before the break, are crazy, loud and annoying. It is just apart of the cycle. I use stuff that I learned while teaching elementary students. They know that is for younger students and it insults their egos, so they simmer down a bit.

I think basically what it boils down to is how you approach the situation. Middle school can be fun but also horrible. I keep my classes organized, interesting and fun. If they bomb, it is no big deal. If the students really acting up I try to just step back and let them simmer down (after doing the elementary school stuff) or face the wrath of my co-teacher. Most of them pick up on this fact and stop after awhile.

I hope that this adds to your base of knowledge helps your decision.


Offline andy

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2010, 02:01:12 pm »
I'd agree with most others, seems to depend on the individual school.  I'm at an all girls high school and I think its great!

For me at least, the students are generally friendly and pretty well behaved, some first graders can be a bit loud and annoying but overall they are pretty good.

Also, at my school the co-teachers rarely turn up, either because they're busy or because they just can't be bothered.  I have 6 and 1-2 of them usually come to lessons.  I quite like this though, lets me be more in control of whats going on rather than the students always looking to the co-teacher for translation.

As far as planning goes it sounds quite a lot nicer than elementary as well, I teach 2 grades, so I only have to plan one or two lessons a week really, as the students are all fairly close when it comes to ability.  Plus they have a lot of tests which usually means either days off or extra time in the office to plan, and sometimes before exams the teachers need to use my lessons to cram, so its a really light workload.  I don't have to follow a textbook at all either, and can teach them pretty much anything I want which is excellent.

As far as downsides I think it depends on your perspective.  Personally I don't see many, although I suppose some people would dislike being left in class unassisted so often.

Probably the main downside is that the kids are worked insanely hard a lot of the time, and so it can be really difficult to get some classes motivated, my Wednesday mornings sometimes seem to be a battle to keep them interested even when other classes have loved the same lessons.

Its my first school so I don't really have anything to compare to but personally the idea of teaching at elementary doesn't sound anywhere near as enjoyable as high school.  But like JTeale said, I think its all about how you approach things.

Offline genesis99

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2010, 02:57:02 pm »
So correct me if I'm wrong.

Co-teaching is done in middle schools (but Korean-English teachers hardly show up)
No co-teaching in high schools (native teachers are on their own)

Thanks for the great comments. They really helped me to understand what middle and high schools are like.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 03:04:56 pm by genesis99 »

Offline kaymac

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2010, 03:18:26 pm »
Hey
I think it varies from school to school <as has been said>. I'm at a boy/girl academic high school and like it. I'm 98% of the time on my own but students know that if they push me on anything it'll get back to their homeroom teachers so it keeps them in line (though near exams it does get freeforallish). I like it though, the age group is good. I also teach what I want which keeps it more interesting for me. I don't think I could handle elementary. Teaching them one class twice a week online was enough for me!

Offline be the ball

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2010, 01:04:27 pm »
My coteachers (middle school) show up for every class unless I ask/tell them not to.

Every situation is different. It IS their job to show up. If you need them there and they aren't there are tactful ways of getting them to do so.

Those who post that their co-teachers never come to their class haven't made that effort. Either they don't mind having no co-teacher, which is fine, or they don't have the courage or confidence to handle the situation.

Offline rowdes

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2010, 07:39:26 pm »
Co teachers do attend classes in MS but they RARELY participate in any of the teaching. They are only there for translating/discipline.

Planning takes up ALOT of your free time + requires creative thinking. From what i understand, elementary native teachers only need to create a small lesson plan to coincide with what the Korean English teacher has created? (please correct me if i'm wrong). A 45 minute lesson plan can be daunting particularly if the students become really bored half way through your lesson.

 

Offline adamwatch

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2010, 09:11:15 pm »
I was told at orientation that Korean teachers have to be in the classroom as that is the law. anyone know if this is true? After all we are not classed as teachers but more as teaching assistants. or am I wrong?

Offline be the ball

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2010, 07:53:17 am »
Co teachers do attend classes in MS but they RARELY participate in any of the teaching. They are only there for translating/discipline.

Planning takes up ALOT of your free time + requires creative thinking. From what i understand, elementary native teachers only need to create a small lesson plan to coincide with what the Korean English teacher has created? (please correct me if i'm wrong). A 45 minute lesson plan can be daunting particularly if the students become really bored half way through your lesson.

Korean teachers will participate in the teaching if you create a lesson plan that incorporates them. If you don't, they won't.

Planning takes up a lot of your free time? At a minimum, you have 18 hours a week where you are at school but not in class. (40 hour work week, 22 classes contracted) Plenty of time to plan a good lesson. Just close down facebook, waygook.org etc. ;-)

Offline be the ball

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2010, 07:58:39 am »
I was told at orientation that Korean teachers have to be in the classroom as that is the law. anyone know if this is true? After all we are not classed as teachers but more as teaching assistants. or am I wrong?

law?....they won't go to jail if they don't go to your class....haha

Your classes are part of their regular schedule. If they don't go to your classes, they are working less hours than the other subject teachers. It is the policy of the Education Office that the co-teachers must attend classes with their Native teacher. At the extreme, they could lose their jobs, just like any teacher who didn't go to scheduled classes could. That won't happen.

If your team teachers aren't coming to your class and you want them there, deal with it. Talk to the team teacher you have the best relationship with. If that fails, talk to the VP. And don't give me any BS about the VP not understanding English. I've had hundreds of point/sketch/konglish conversations with people, communication is possible

Offline Janitor

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2010, 08:56:38 am »
Be the Ball is right, If you are organized and have your work days planned, you should be able to have more than enough time to plan your classes. Just set aside some time to plan and get it all out of the way ahead of time.

In regards to teachers not showing up, I give them the option but ask that they tell me in advance. Most of my lessons require a bit of involvement from the coteacher but can be handled if thy are not present. I just need a heads up if they are not going to come to class that day.  It just boils down to communication. If you coteacher knows what is expected of them and what is expected of you.

Offline adamwatch

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2010, 09:14:52 am »
It may be the law in Korea that your co teachers have to attend classes. As if we are not classed as "proper" teachers and anything goes wrong in class they could be prosecuted.

Offline Brian

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2010, 09:28:03 am »
If you ask 10 secondary school teachers about their co-teachers you'll get 9 different responses.  I don't want to divert this thread, but I will add there are good points on both sides. 

Yes, you need to try and incorporate your Korean co-teachers because in spite of their experience and authority they will look for you to take the lead in planning and doing your classes.

And yes, unfortunately there are Korean co-teachers who, regardless of your effort, will not participate in your class or planning, and will not show up for class or the mandated workshop.  There are many reasons for this, but like it or not it's the reality of the situation.  It doesn't matter how much time you have set aside for planning, trying to find time to meet with every co-teacher can be a challenge, especially when they aren't interested. 

It is advisable to talk about co-teaching with the other English teachers at your school so they know what you expect of them, and you know what they expect of you.   
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Offline Mel123

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2010, 12:19:27 pm »
Hey!
I teach at an all girls middle school - The 1st graders are super sweet and fun and I have a lot of fun with them. I like teaching them a lot, but hate teaching the second graders twice as much as I like teaching the 1st graders. They are arrogant and HATE absolutely EVERYTHING I try to teach them. And they never stop talking - not even for  a second. I don't teach the 3rd graders.

Offline sheedi

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Re: What's it like to teach in a middle/high school? (I'm elementary)
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2010, 02:25:20 pm »
I know people have said it, but it depends on the school. Girls are a little easier than the boys. My school they split the male and girls students. You'll have good classes and you'll have bad classes. They aren't jus bad to you, all the teachers know that class 306, or 208 is a bad class for example. I get to teach whatever I want...I don't have to teach by the book. My class is my class and my teachers help with explaination or clarification. I don't even meet with any of them to discuss what will be taught because honestly they are busy bc they are all home room teachers and home room teachers have a lot to work to do.  My 1st years are great, second years are cool, and they try to be bad. My third years are the problem kids. They think they run the school and that they are the biggest, baddest thing, but I like middles school. You may work a little harder on finding what to teach unlike elementary where the lesson plan is made for you. High School I've heard goes kind of the same way. If you happen to work at an all girls school then you'll enjoy it, but an all boys middle or high school...pray.