Author Topic: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o  (Read 2281 times)

Offline CarlySQ

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Hey guys. The subject line says it all. Politicians in the USA are making our home a nasty place to return to. While we sit here in Korea and enjoy the teaching jobs that were so readily offered to us, our fellow Americans don't have it so easy. Their financial futures are being held captive by out of touch politicians who care little about what happens to the American public, so long as they get reelected and are able to fend off taxes for the billionaire companies that bought their offices anyway. Obviously, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Unless you're part of the former group, you really ought to start thinking about what that means for your return home.

It's time for us to DO something about this. I need to compile a list of any and all Americans who are willing to help me out here in Korea. Depending on our numbers, I really think we could get some attention for our cause. While I've been pretty disturbed by the debt crisis over the last few months, this video really put me over the edge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndkRgj6j-Pg&feature=player_embedded

Please take ten minutes to watch it and message me your email address if you are interested in helping out with a brief, peaceful, and organized proest of any sort. I want your ideas. Let's work together and get some sort of media coverage to show that even Americans abroad are OUTRAGED about this. We can't just do nothing. Things are bad, and they're going to get worse if we simply ignore the issue. PLEASE help me out, even if only for the opportunity to spend some time with some likeminded American folk.

Respond ASAP! This could be a really big thing.

Offline lacyfan

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2011, 05:49:20 pm »
Posting on an internet forum is not going to accomplish anything. Go back home and run for office, if you feel so strongly about politics. Seriously, if it matters that much to you then run for something, organize voters, and do something there.

Offline Jozigirl

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2011, 07:00:14 pm »
This has been happening for years.  It's not new and it's not specific to the US either. 

Posting on a forum won't do much.  I agree that if you feel so strongly about it, go home and get involved in campaigns in the US. 

Offline west coast tatterdemalion

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2011, 08:11:25 pm »
Like the previous poster said, this is nothing new. This has been happening for years and years. Haven't you noticed? It's just finally been exposed now, kinda like when you shine a light in dark room and the cockroaches scurry around.

Offline carefulallthetime

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2011, 09:33:07 pm »
this is a bit more than business as usual.  the debt ceiling crisis was a new low for american government.  if you don't understand that, you don't really understand what happened. 

as for the OP, i applaud your outrage, but honestly, what could a few english teachers in korea do about this? 

i'm not sure if we can do much, if anything.  i won't be voting for obama in the primaries, that's for sure.  i might even vote straight republican from here on out.  sometimes you have to just shoot a dying horse before you can start training a new one.

Offline amorphous154

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2011, 09:38:38 pm »
1% of Americans control 70% of America's wealth.  Is that disgusting yes.  Is anything going to change anytime soon . . . I doubt it.  Why, because it'll take a Napoleanic-type Revolution to change the already rigid structure of America, a country that is more divided than united.  And most people (me included) are too tired after a long days work and life stuff to revolt, sharpen tools, or whatever.  I just want to watch some tv, play some games, and get some sleep before the next episode. 

So for now I'm gonna agree with ppl like Lupe Fiasco who thinks politics is a lost cause and if it ever gets to tough, I'm just going to say the Serenity Prayer and shoot zombies on my 360 8)

Offline WorkingTitle3484

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2011, 09:53:05 pm »
Hey Carly, I'm with you and am a fan of healthy dissent. 

I just feel that, this is nothing new.  You know it's a sad state of affairs when you'd catch flak for having a thread of integrity.

Media and political machines are in lockstep with each other, and it's a true shame because it's killing our spirit.

I'm disappointed more so than disgusted however.  I'm becoming more surprised every day about the new lows to which people are stooping.
You get what you give :)

Offline globetrotter

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2011, 10:18:17 pm »
truthfully I haven't been following things much back home.  Long work hours and sometimes stress from living here so Korea issues have more immediate importance for me right now.

I dont know about the rest of you, but after 3 years I am going back home at the end of this contract.  The easy money/secure job is good but my family and my issues with Korean culture that I still can't get over is of greater importance to me than money or a job.  I may struggle when I get back, but happiness and feeling free is more important to me.  No matter the problems in America, it is still a good country and lot better place to live than many other places in the world.  Also I think I would get less discrimination and 2nd class treatment back there too since its not such a homogenous society.  Finally clean air, you can't beat that  :P

Offline anichion

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2011, 10:56:52 pm »
It may seem like it is hard to make a difference back home when you are so far away. Like most posters say, posting on an Internet forum doesn't mean much.

However, that doesn't mean "give up". You have to be more... creative... in your tactics and approach.

Don't think you aren't able to do anything. While in Korea, you have a few things in your favor:
Disposable income.
High Speed unfirewalled Internet (unless you wanna look at nasty porn or pro-Nork sites).
Practically 0 risk of employer or neighborhood blow-back.
A lot of time on your hands.

Be clever and creative, but be modest. Don't expect the world/nation/your hometown to change overnight from your keyboard (unless you have the 'home run swing' at your disposal. If so, swing wisely. The "Matrix" theme applies here). You can make a difference- you just have to pick a boulder you can move.

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2011, 02:15:32 am »
truthfully I haven't been following things much back home.  Long work hours and sometimes stress from living here so Korea issues have more immediate importance for me right now.

I dont know about the rest of you, but after 3 years I am going back home at the end of this contract.  The easy money/secure job is good but my family and my issues with Korean culture that I still can't get over is of greater importance to me than money or a job.  I may struggle when I get back, but happiness and feeling free is more important to me.  No matter the problems in America, it is still a good country and lot better place to live than many other places in the world.  Also I think I would get less discrimination and 2nd class treatment back there too since its not such a homogenous society.  Finally clean air, you can't beat that  :P

Exactly how I'm feeling at the moment. Infact, I'm planning to go back home and start a life proper midway through this contract. Like you I also have issues with Korean culture, namely the racism. Freedom and happiness, I agree, are more important. The aforementioned discrimination in the form of racism and 2nd class treatment are also crucial reasons for packing my bags. At least you can last this contract. Halfway is my aim. I even told my boss that I couldn't renew. She managed to talk me into renewing but everyday I think of leaving and have started getting things in order in order to leave.

What was the thread topic again?

Offline 21 grams

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2011, 07:38:06 am »
Hello Carly,

Let me respond by first saying that I deeply respect your attention to this matter, as well as your desire to do something about it.  Far too many citizens are content to remain uninformed and uninvolved; and as a result of their apathy, become unwitting participants in their own oppression and that of others.

With that being said, I must regretfully assert that peaceful protests accomplish little beyond assuaging well-intentioned peoples' desire to act.  In the U.S., protests have a long history of being completely ignored by the government - be they against wars in Europe, Indochina, and the Middle East or against the bailouts of the very same financial institutions responsible for devastating the U.S. economy in 2008.

You are right to say that people should be concerned about these political happenings and the impact they will have on the economy they return to in the coming years.  The austerity measures being adopted, previously in Europe and now in the States, are designed with precisely one goal in mind: the further consolidation of wealth and power in the hands of few, at the expense of many.  As a few other posters have noted, this trend is far from new.  This phenomenon is, in fact, the end game of every government of historical note.  What is especially disconcerting, however, is the accelerated rate at which the American Empire is crumbling.  The boom-and-bust economic cycle is producing larger and larger bubbles at a rate of two per decade now.  The absolute farce that is the one-party-under-Wall Street political system, has become the thread-barren Emperor.

After painting such a dark picture, I would love to be able to segue into helpful advice on where to direct your rage, frustration, or disgust.  Unfortunately, there is none forthcoming.  As for me, I was extensively involved in Ron Paul's (real) grassroots presidential campaign back in 2007.  Since that time, profound disillusionment has given way to an unfathomable misanthropy.  The only respite has been the company of intelligent, like-minded people, where available, and the elementary education profession (to some degree).

Pay no heed to the mouth-breathers that are telling you how pointless it is to reach out to others on a forum.  Of course it won't accomplish anything politically, but neither will organizing and running for office like they suggest.  The time when positive change could still be forged from within the system has long since passed.  Anyone that tells you anything to the contrary is either extremely naive or a liar.

In any case, I wouldn't mind meeting with other politically-conscious individuals, skeptical as I am.  PM me some time, and we'll arrange something.

Regards

this is a bit more than business as usual.  the debt ceiling crisis was a new low for american government.  if you don't understand that, you don't really understand what happened. 

as for the OP, i applaud your outrage, but honestly, what could a few english teachers in korea do about this? 

i'm not sure if we can do much, if anything.  i won't be voting for obama in the primaries, that's for sure.  i might even vote straight republican from here on out.  sometimes you have to just shoot a dying horse before you can start training a new one.

Can you please give me a play-by-play of the mental gymnastics routine you just performed?  I'm honestly at a loss...

"Obviously, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. "
A. This isn't true by any subjective, long term measure. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting richer. This is true of most of the world.

B. The debt ceiling thing is overblown. Oh no! Spending will rise by 5 million over the next 10 years instead of 7 million! So spending wasn't really cut at all.

A.  I think the word you're searching for is objective.  And they are plenty of such measures.  Real wages, for instance, haven't increased since the Carter administration.  In that same time span, the costs of healthcare, education, and energy use have increased anywhere between 250-500%.  Consumer debt stands at roughly $2.5 trillion, or $22,000 per household.  That number has doubled over the past decade.  Those statistics clearly indicate that the average person is getting "poorer."  On the other hand, the U.S. now boasts 3.1 million citizens with at least $1 million in investable assets - an all time high.  The combined wealth of these individuals is also at an all-time time high, $11.6 trillion.

B.  The debate over raising the debt ceiling was political subterfuge.  Obama and his economic advisers got exactly what they wanted out of it - austerity measures and zero tax hikes on the wealthy campaign contributors - without having to take any heat from the moronic voting base that still clings to the idea that Obama is some sort of progressive messiah.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 08:16:39 am by 21 grams »

Offline notanartist

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2011, 08:16:24 am »
If you really want to be involved in changing US politics, make sure your American friends here know how to vote by mail and when their elections are.  http://www.vote411.org/bytopic.php?topicID=10

When elections roll around (every election), call them and remind them to vote.  Call your friends and family in the US and make sure that they're voting in every election.

When you're this upset about something, call your elected officials.  Call your friends here and your friends and family in the States and ask them to call their elected officials.

Protests don't change politics.  Elections change politics.  Protests don't win elections.  Votes win elections.

Politicians will pay more attention to direct contact from their constituents (potential votes) than they will a newspaper article about a small protest in South Korea.

Offline Jozigirl

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2011, 08:17:07 am »
I just feel that, this is nothing new.  You know it's a sad state of affairs when you'd catch flak for having a thread of integrity.

I'm disappointed more so than disgusted however.  I'm becoming more surprised every day about the new lows to which people are stooping.

Another posted commented: "1% of Americans control 70% of America's wealth.  Is that disgusting yes."  Most of the world's wealth seems to be controlled by the US.  If, as a non-American, I had made a post along the lines of the OP (and commenting that I would like to organise a peaceful protest to highlight this and other similar points), I would probably have been slammed for being anti-American.  Similarly, if I'd made such a post related to my own country and about the state of politics there, I would probably have received a similar response to the OP.  It's not always about apathy.  It seems like a bit of a double standard....

I do, however, agree that there are other ways to go about making changes if you're really that passionate about it but posting on an internet forum - on a topic that really shouldn't be on a teacher's forum - is not the one of those ways. 

Offline Jrong

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2011, 08:25:30 am »
I love it how most of the men on here are so quick to give "advice" :), lol...in all honesty I'm sure none of us really has a good idea of what to do but it would be good (as you and others suggested) to organize somehow, meet up and discuss face-to-face as that way's more effective than an internet forum. It's really nice to hear other people feeling disgusted about the situation and I feel like if we all got together we could hear some really great ideas and learn from each other.

I was involved in charitable-religious work for 5 years among extremely poor and oppressed people around the world. I left that work (and that religion) after seeing that charity is only a 'poultice on the ulcer of capitalism' in the words of Jack London. I realized that in order for malnutrition, malaria, disease, and oppression to not continue there needed to be a change in the whole political systems of many countries and that charity itself (while necessary at the moment) often allows the rich to continue living off of the sweat of the poor while good-hearted religious people try and minimize the damage done. I realized that my rich friends who bankrolled my work were mostly ignorant to the fact that they should not be getting paid 100 times more than those (Mexicans, Chinese, and Guatemalans) who work for them just so that they can send %20 of their 'income' to charity and feel really good about themselves...as if it was their money to begin with.

I then spent a summer with a very liberal-Mennonite commune where everyone grew their own food, made their own clothes and held small protest marches. This was just as sickening to me as my ignorant rich friends. At the end of the day, all these folks really cared about was selfishly feeling like they had "done what's right" when their behaviour had no big-picture, long-term effect other than making them "feel good" and "feel just".

While ideally we would like to change governmental systems, my wife and I have also become disilusioned with the political process feeling like it's impossible to break through the water-tight plutocratic systems set up by the rich. We also have no idea what to do.

Anyways, we would love to meet up with 'the outraged' who are also interested in discussing these things with a view towards creative action. I'm glad you posted this.

____   ____   __   __   ____   ____!

Offline aldritg

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2011, 09:13:00 am »
"Obviously, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. "
A. This isn't true by any subjective, long term measure. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting richer. This is true of most of the world.

B. The debt ceiling thing is overblown. Oh no! Spending will rise by 5 million over the next 10 years instead of 7 million! So spending wasn't really cut at all.

A:  If you're talking about average net income (after taxes) then I guess you're technically right.  Those falling in the bottom 20% of Wage earners had their income rise by about 10% over the last 4 decades or so.  But the same figure for the top 1% shows a nearly 200% increase.  Real wages (adjusted for inflation) for middle and lower class families has actually decreased since the 70's (after stagflation hit under Nixon and they commanded the price freeze if I remember my history correctly).  Since that time earnings for those falling in the top tax bracket has steadily increased year by year.  Also, average household income has increased pretty sharply, but not because of wage increases.  Because more households are now dual-earner families because mom has to work in order to keep lunch meat in the fridge.

Certainly no more Americans have health care now than they did in decades past. 

Home ownership was up which is a good indicator of standard of living for lower and middle class families but... we all know how that turned out.  We also know who benefited from the irresponsible lending and who suffered. 

Before the 80's the top 20% of income earners payed half their income to Uncle Sam, but Reagan slashed that to about a quarter, then raised the tax rates of the bottom brackets by around 10%.  Note that while we're really talking about the top 1% having a disproportionate amount of income, there is no new tax rate for people with that kind of insane income.  Its set at 30 or 35% currently, I believe?  Doctors pay the same as hedge fund managers  (Only not really because uber rich people don't pay taxes anyway.  No matter when you look at the charts people in the top 1%, those who have 90% of the wealth in America, never contribute more than 30% of the burden regardless of the marginal tax rate.)  So the poor certainly aren't gaining any ground relative to tax policies. 

What I'm saying is I don't know where your idea that the poor are getting richer is coming from unless you're referring to developing countries, but in the states they certainly aren't

B:  The debt ceiling is being overblown but not because it's unimportant.  Not raising the debt ceiling would have awful consequences for the general public and everyone knows that.  It's overblown because congress raises the debt ceiling all the time out of necessity but decided to make a big debate about it this year.  Anyone with half a brain knew that debt ceiling was going up.  No politician in their right mind would let the country suffer through that... it was just a political tug of war and the left again fell flat because they have no balls.  Basically, the GOP was fighting to have the debt ceiling extensions end early 2012 (election year) so they would be able to bring the subject back up and frame the political discussion around spending where they can make Democrats look like fools again.  Clearly, Obama wasn't going to let this happen so Dems let everything they wanted go EXCEPT to have it extended past 2012.  They know its a band-aid and that its not good for the people, but that's incircumstantial when you've got an election to win.

Offline rorio82

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2011, 01:36:27 pm »
"hows that change workin out for ya" Sarah Palin

Ok maybe stating this post off with a quote from mrs milf from AK isn't the most sensitive thing to do, but one things for sure, it's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

Can't wait for the 2012 campaign... the talking points will be quite interesting 

Offline Brian

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2011, 06:32:15 pm »
The powerful and elite in the US are helping the country win the race to the bottom. 

What's worse is that so many people don't worry how dire the situation is.
"You know, there comes a day in every man's life, and it's a hard day, but there comes a day when he realizes he's never going to play professional baseball." - Josh Lyman, from The West Wing.

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Offline toddc06

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2011, 08:30:47 pm »
I'm curious...Does anybody have an idea of how much tax revenue is lost due to the foreign income tax exemption?  We aren't doing much here to help our economy back home...unless your school is awesome and pays you more than $92,900 a year (for 2011).  And I'm actually wondering if anybody knows an approx. number.  I have no idea.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 08:39:56 pm by toddc06 »

Offline lacyfan

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Re: ARE YOU AN AMERICAN IN DISGUST AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT HOME??? :o
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2011, 08:57:36 pm »
I'm curious...Does anybody have an idea of how much tax revenue is lost due to the foreign income tax exemption?  We aren't doing much here to help our economy back home...unless your school is awesome and pays you more than $92,900 a year (for 2011).  And I'm actually wondering if anybody knows an approx. number.  I have no idea.

It's going to be a large number because a record number of Americans are working overseas. I saw something about how it's over 3,000,000 and climbing.