Rude Foreigners

[DejaVu]

Well I hope I'm never near you when you do that.  Imagine if I came to your house and started talking about how your mom is low class because she talks with her mouth full?  I'd imagine you wouldn't appreciate it and you'd think I'm rude.  You are doing the same thing and personally I'm disappointed that I have to be associated with you simply because we are both westerners. 

Also, it's one thing to trash talk the USA if you are American.  That's what we do but we're entitled because it's our country.  If you aren't American but trash talk it while you're their I wouldn't fight you but I'd definitely give you a good tongue-lashing.

I'm not from the inner-city.  You can say what you want about my mother.  Why would you be upset over my criticisms of "Mother Korea".

On a side note, for your tongue-lashings to have effect, I have to care about your opinions at least somewhat.  Good luck with that.

[orangeman]

Not everything you disagree with is racism.  You're not a hero to the Korean people by protecting them from the observations of others.  Maybe instead of seeking out other foreigners to feel superior to, you should move out to the countryside where there are fewer annoyances like these. 

The point of my earlier post was that in a big city you can't be surprised by people being loud or obnoxious whether they're Korean or not.  You can't have it both ways; you can't say politeness is subjective and therefore we should never judge Korean social standards (ie talking loudly on their cell phone) and then criticize a foreigner when you see them do it. Actually, I think it's racist to hold Koreans to a lower standard regarding social norms while condemning foreigners for doing the exact same thing.  Like a Korean can't help himself but to be loud and obnoxious, but a foreigner should be able to.  See, I can throw that word around, too.  And since I did last I get more internet points.  The only way you can win now is by calling me Hitler or pointing out a typo in my post.   The only difference is that even if I did believe your post was racist I would never call for it to be erased.  I'm confident enough in my beliefs that I can withstand racism, but no one can withstand another man who believes no one else should be heard. 

Orangeman, great post. Very well constructed. (I must ask, are you from Northern Ireland?)

No, I'm not Irish but I do drink like one (now that's racist).

[aramella]

I don't disagree.  I hate it when people are eating, and talking loudly on the subway. 

[flasyb]

Also, it's one thing to trash talk the USA if you are American.  That's what we do but we're entitled because it's our country.  If you aren't American but trash talk it while you're their I wouldn't fight you but I'd definitely give you a good tongue-lashing.

I'd say you have to watch what you say around people and save the really gritty stuff for home or for bars where the ambient conversation will drown out what you're saying. You could even save it for waygook.org although, as always, you never know when something you write/say is going to bite you in the ass. It's best not to be overtly offensive with what you say in public places where you are likely to be heard but that's the same for making comments that aren't about people's countries too.

If I stood in a bar, perhaps on a bar stool, in the USA and started hectoring Americans by listing the (perceived) faults with their country, I would expect a good kicking. Goes without saying. However, that doesn't mean people should just put up or shut up. I'll insult any country I please in or from any country I please but I'll do it in a tactful way so as to avoid a beating. Just because you are in a country, doesn't mean you can't say negative things about it (careful how you tread in China, Iran, etc and don't insult the King of Thailand either). And if you gave me a "tongue lashing" for something I said in a reasonable tone in a private conversation, get ready to be told to mind your effing business.

[DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP]

Yes, absolutely.  I for one have never seen a Korean eat food, especially stinky food (Korean food is known to be moderate, right?), on the subway.  As for talking loudly on the phone in public, why I could never even imagine that happening in this city of shy and soft spoken lambs.  And even if a stray wolf did get through this tight lipped fence of public restraint, they would never under any circumstances loudly discuss the foreigner within their sight in detail with no consideration for privacy, class or emotions whatsoever.  The prospect of this imaginary Korean actually combining the two and eating wildly while talking loudly, creating a virtual tornado of food spittled ignorance, is so proposterous I find it somewhat insulting of our gracious hosts, who as you've mentioned we owe a great debt of gratitute for employing us at reasonable market rates for a service we provide competently and in good faith as if we lived in some sort of capitalist nightmare of supply and demand. 

The scene you've described and the one I've been forced to create in my mind here will surely leave me sleepless for nights to come, which is unfortunate considering the calm, quiet and considerate environment Seoul citizens are famous for creating.

Ahahahaha....someone up this man's status to Waygook Genius will you.  Some sort of genius anyway lol.

Nomination seconded.  It's always refreshing to come accross other foriegners that don't live in complete and utter fantasy worlds!

Tamillow  Exactly.   Were a Korean eating some Kimchi on the subway in London and talking loudly on their phone, I'd cringe a little but I wouldn't suddenly decide that I was a police officer and start telling them what to do and not do unless they were doig something illegal or dangerous to themselves and others.  Squash that and squash anyone that does.  It's called civility and tolerance.

[tomlyth29]

I often find myself, if I'm on the bus with someone I know, in the only conversation there. I'm used to the quietness of the bus but I don't want to be rude.

[woman-king]

I do find it annoying when friends/foreigners talk loudly on public transit here with the assumption that their English cannot be understood by anyone.  It doesn't even necessarily have to be something critical of Korea or of Koreans around us--I think it's just ignorant to assume that on any given day on a subway in Seoul there won't be at least a couple Koreans with a decent grasp of English. 

I eat dry snacks and coffees on public transit sometimes though.  I'm quiet and discreet about it and have never gotten negative attention for it--and I see Koreans doing it often enough, too. 

[Spongeblob]

I do find it annoying when Koreans talk loudly on public transit here with the assumption that their Korean cannot be understood by anyone.  It doesn't even necessarily have to be something critical of Foreigners or of Foreigners around us--I think it's just ignorant to assume that on any given day on a subway in Seoul there won't be at least a couple Foreigners with a decent grasp of Korean. 

You know, when they do let us on public transport.

[DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP]

You know, when they do let us on public transport.

I KNOW!  Can you believe it?  THEY let US out freely in public in THEIR country and even let us on public transport and EVEN allow us to speak as long as we do it so we can't be overheard!

The privalage!  The magnanimity!  Sometimes it just makes me kind of well up inside...

[Llynne]

its funny how i've seen and heard of quite a few foreigners being 'scolded' for want of a better word, for being noisy on public transport, yet no-one says anything when parents lets their kids run up and down subway carriages, squealing and yelling..kids are noisy but how about instilling some courtesy for other people early...
re: Koreans talking loudly about you cos they think you can't understand..i've seen alot of that, even if you cant understand everything, it's usually pretty obvious when people are talking AND staring right at you! but i guess foreigners do it sometimes too...in both cases its just a matter of being rude, it doesnt matter where you're from..

[Nads222]

I would have walked up to her and been like: "You see these rocks?  You see these ROCKS?" If she doesn't know what I'm on about she must be living under a rock. If she does, she should know to act better on public transport for the sake of all foreigners.

[TOEFL]

It wasn't public transport, but I was pretty embarrassed when a table of Aussies who are all on F visas were in a coffee shop in an affluent district where most of the Korean customers understand and speak english started throwing the F word around louder than the loudest group of Adjummas you've ever heard.

The 60 year old Korean woman I was with was kind of shocked, but at the same time she felt sorry for them because they were so far away from their moms, lol.

I was just glad they weren't Americans.

[adamwatch]

 I watch the awful American tv here(as it's in English)  and think what  a terrible example  for our students. Then I read the posts of the teachers here and many also use bad language. Then I hear the bad language of the students and think that's what you get if you ape American society. As for what Koreans think of the US army here I don't know but they do not seem to be popular in neighbouring Japan.

Adam

[Llynne]

its funny how i've seen and heard of quite a few foreigners being 'scolded' for want of a better word, for being noisy on public transport, yet no-one says anything when parents lets their kids run up and down subway carriages, squealing and yelling..kids are noisy but how about instilling some courtesy for other people early...

Because their kids, feel free to start complaining when my baby cries on a bus, I don't like it when she screams but I'll either ignore you or tell you something that you wont like to hear just because I don't give a c**p about your feelings, you make it sound like parents should gag babies just for your comfort.

I don't really think it's the same thing comparing kids to adult. You see, as a kid becomes older they learn things, like being courteous to others...etc

Haha, gagged, dont be so dramatic! I said specifically children running up and down, not babies, as they are obviously going to cry and that cant be helped. But a child who is old enough to run up and down a subway carriage screaming is old enough to be disciplined somewhat. As for not caring about other peoples feelings, well, you seem like a great addition to society

[DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP]

 I watch the awful American tv here(as it's in English)  and think what  a terrible example  for our students. Then I read the posts of the teachers here and many also use bad language. Then I hear the bad language of the students and think that's what you get if you ape American society. As for what Koreans think of the US army here I don't know but they do not seem to be popular in neighbouring Japan.

Adam

AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA~

Just spat beer all over my laptop!

Great use of irony there.  it's satire right?  Because you know as well as I do that if you go to any pc bang on a sat afternoon you will constantly hear 'shibal, sekki' etc.  So what you doing is making a funny joke to highlight the fact that korean kids swear just as much as American kidss and the op should stop being so dramatic and naive and posters like that should stop patronising Koreans as these mystical utopian people that they are not and never have been!

Right?  Right.....?

[hilarity ensues]

This thread has devolved beyond the point where it's doing anyone any good.

You can't blame an entire nation just because a few people from that nation are jerks.

All kids like swearing. They think it's funny, and they like to get a rise out of adults. This is universal. There were kids in my elementary school who learned nothing but French swear words over the course of their entire 8-year education.

You really shouldn't compare your behavior to that of children.

If other people can't see that you're different from some jerk who happens to be from the same country as you, then it's their problem, not yours... and acting like it is your problem is just reinforcing an ignorant belief system.

I also want to add that threads like this one and 'Why is Seoul so utterly filthy?' never go to good places... permitting them on this site is a mistake.

[twak24]

this city of shy and soft spoken lambs. 

The scene you've described and the one I've been forced to create in my mind here will surely leave me sleepless for nights to come, which is unfortunate considering the calm, quiet and considerate environment Seoul citizens are famous for creating.

Oh boy, these two comments right here afforded me one heck-fire of a better Monday morning. As I write this, I am attempting not to spit a mouthful of instant Maxim coffee all over my laptop for lack of ability to stop laughing. Good times.

[OneVurfedGwrx]

its funny how i've seen and heard of quite a few foreigners being 'scolded' for want of a better word, for being noisy on public transport, yet no-one says anything when parents lets their kids run up and down subway carriages, squealing and yelling..kids are noisy but how about instilling some courtesy for other people early...

Because their kids, feel free to start complaining when my baby cries on a bus, I don't like it when she screams but I'll either ignore you or tell you something that you wont like to hear just because I don't give a c**p about your feelings, you make it sound like parents should gag babies just for your comfort.

I don't really think it's the same thing comparing kids to adult. You see, as a kid becomes older they learn things, like being courteous to others...etc

Haha, gagged, dont be so dramatic! I said specifically children running up and down, not babies, as they are obviously going to cry and that cant be helped. But a child who is old enough to run up and down a subway carriage screaming is old enough to be disciplined somewhat. As for not caring about other peoples feelings, well, you seem like a great addition to society

Of course, when you have kids of around 2-6 who are capable of running amok you also realise that disciplining them can also be a lot noisier and disruptive than what the kids are actually doing, especially with boys.  I do agree that you should care about people's feelings, but on the other hand if someone is complaining needlessly about something that there is little you can do about (the crying baby example) I wouldn't care in the slightest what those particular thought.  It's not black and white.

[Paul]

It frustrates me that almost every geek I meet hates Sparta so very much.

I'm going to second the poster above who pointed out there was a good chance she was actually defending Korea on the phone to a fellow expat. Or perhaps she was a tourist and they were asking her where she is. "What are those people saying? What language is that? Where are you? Are you still in the China/Japan leg of your Asia trip?"

[Llynne]

Im not comparing childrens behaviour to that of adults nor am i expressing my views on parenting styles.this is about noise.the point of the op was about rudeness which then came around to people making noise.im merely pointing out in response to other peoples experience of having being told off for making noise,that plenty of other people make excessive noise too..children shock horror!