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Author Topic: Obama...  (Read 2353 times)

Offline kimchikiwi

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Obama...
« on: September 15, 2011, 11:10:30 AM »
So I just heard about Obama wanting to pass a $60+billion plan to provide more teaching jobs in the U.S. since so many teachers (us) are teaching overseas. Did anyone else here about this? What are your thoughts?
Here was a direct quote:
"It's not fair to American kids that while places like South Korea are adding teachers, in the U.S. they're being laid off," said President Obama. "This has to stop."

http://www.aaeteachers.org/index.php/blog/533-obama-unveils-education-plan-in-jobs-speech
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/campaign-k-12/2011/09/president_barack_obama_will_ca.html

Offline Damien

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2011, 11:27:08 AM »
What's another $60+ billion to the $14+ trillion debt. . .
“If I accept you as you are, I will make you worse; however if I treat you as though you are what you are capable of becoming, I help you become that.” -Goethe

Offline gookway

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2011, 11:39:40 AM »
as Ron Paul explained it so clearly, the Federal Reserve can just print off more money out of thin air, 14 trillion debt or not, they just keep printing. 

And it's really sad the state of America's schools when you see all the deteroriation of education and simply the lack of good teaching as America is riddled with juvenile delinquents, incredibily obese, and uneducated kids from as early as primary school.  That's why only those with money who can send their kids to privileged schools turn out decent and with some semblance of morality and reason. 

Offline djayanty

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2011, 12:59:50 PM »
 As a former US public school teacher who came to South Korea for more opportunity, I totally agree. It's unfortunate that our country cannot provide the most important jobs for the future of our country with decent pay and benefits. I'm wondering where all that money will come from though?

Offline ovid

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2011, 01:01:11 PM »
What can really be said?

You're screwed if you really want to fix education and screwed if you don't.  Fixing education by throwing more money into it is just a band-aid fix.  The level of students education abroad (not just South Korea) is far higher because of a lot of factors: respect of teachers, community based societies that appreciate teachers/educational system, teachers/families/communities working together, better students who want to be in class, and strong family structures.  The U.S. possess little of these qualities and blame is disproportionately thrown onto teachers (No Child Left Behind).

By not fixing education, you leave a far less educated society less suited for more lucrative careers (not like the U.S. is actually teeming with them) a widening class difference between the rich and the poor (deteriorating middle class), and worst of all, problems we face now will only be exacerbated by a low-educated population. 

I am starting to feel like it doesn't matter who is in office.  Nothing has really changed since Obama has hit office and everything he's done (health care, education, etc.) has been undone by Republicans who care more about ousting him then working on fixing this problem we have in the US.  Obama is trying to work things diplomatically only to appear sheepish, weak, and incapable of leading a country.  Our two party system share much more in common and end up never being able to come to any conclusion.  While a third party would be nice, it's never going to happen.  The media hate (or should I say, lack of acknowledgment) for Ron Paul is depressing.  While I am not a Ron Paul supporter, it would be nice for something other than a two party system that is old, outdated with the times, and locked with the other.

I know, I sound so fatalistic... but for someone who saw the States change so much in 10 years, going from a country where I could find a pretty decent job with my BA and making a living or even being able to start a family to not even being able to find a full time minimum wage job is pretty depressing.  Seeing our credit ratings drop, unemployment rise, food stamp dependency rise, and adults moving back in with parents while corporations are still seeing profit (by of course, cutting jobs) is disgusting.

hilarity ensues

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2011, 01:26:08 PM »
As a former US public school teacher who came to South Korea for more opportunity, I totally agree. It's unfortunate that our country cannot provide the most important jobs for the future of our country with decent pay and benefits. I'm wondering where all that money will come from though?

The military.
Definitely.
I guarantee it 100%.
For real.

Offline Damien

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2011, 01:55:10 PM »
I know a few American teachers teaching US-Military children in foreign countries and they are making insane money for a teacher. One of them makes near $100,000 / year and the other makes a little over $110,000 / year. Neither one of them has been teaching for more than 10 years even. I can understand a slight bonus pay for living abroad, but one of them makes the average wage of 3 US-teachers.
“If I accept you as you are, I will make you worse; however if I treat you as though you are what you are capable of becoming, I help you become that.” -Goethe

Offline Cereal

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2011, 03:32:55 PM »
Obama, il a essayer, mais plus ca change plus ca reste la meme. Tristement.
"The urge to destroy is also a creative urge."
Bakunin

Offline littlefish

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2011, 03:53:32 PM »
This is funny to me because my mother was upset about the jobs situation and me leaving home to teach overseas, so she wrote a letter to Obama asking why South Korea has jobs for teachers but the U.S. does not. Maybe those letters actually do get read!
A few months back Obama actually called for more students to consider becoming teachers to fix education, he said "your country needs you". Meanwhile, I know dozens of unemployed credentialed teachers in California.

Offline Davox

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2011, 12:00:32 AM »
How to fix education.

Either;
A: Smash the teachers union ("public sector union" is an oxymoron anyway).
B. Abolish the Dept Of Education.
Or
C. Do all of the above in one fell swoop by privatising education.

Exactly, the Korean hagwon system IS the most ethical, efficient, and effective educational system in the world today!

Offline justanotherwaygook

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2011, 01:48:09 AM »
How many kids in the US are in 40-student classes?
C is for cookie, that's good enough for me.

Offline woman-king

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2011, 03:40:06 PM »
I'm also someone who thinks we just cannot continue to add to the national debt, however noble the reason for doing so may be.  We have to make cuts/refuse to spend even if it's painful if we want to save our basic safety nets like Social Security and Medicare, which can literally mean the difference between life or death for the most vulnerable. 

It sucks, and it's certainly not all Obama's fault by a long shot and I think he's trying to balance both the issue of debt with the interests of ordinary working people, like teachers.  But at the end of the day, I just don't see how we can keep spending money we don't have.  Something's gotta give.  That probably means, for the average working American, fewer and more poorly-paid teachers/policemen/firefighters, no real government healthcare system, less money into infrastructure and libraries and so on.  If they don't save money in those areas, I don't see how they can afford to continue running our most basic safety nets.  Putting taxes back to the Clinton era-rates could help, but it's not going to be enough to leverage our enormous debt and keep all current programs afloat.  We have to accept that we can't keep every program or benefit that most of us 90s-era children are used to.  And we're going to have to start talking in specifics about what we really want to save, and what we can live without/pay for via the private sector.  I think teachers are incredibly important, but before we hastily decide that this $60 million should go to that, I'd like to hear about other progams that might get cut or need funding because of this particular allocation.

THAT SAID...I do kind of enjoy the fact that "our voices have been heard," so to speak.   :P  I'd love to find out the exact number of Americans (since I am one) who have gone into EFL teaching in Asia (not just SK) since the 2008 crash.  It's got to be pretty high, and while a lot of them are just liberal arts-degree folks like me I'd bet there's a significant portion who are in fact licensed teachers.

Offline Yu_Bumsuk

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2011, 04:25:02 PM »
"talking out of one's @**"

The guy's picture belongs in the dictionary.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 05:21:00 PM by Jason Teacher »

Offline Davox

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2011, 05:30:00 PM »
How to fix education.

Either;
A: Smash the teachers union ("public sector union" is an oxymoron anyway).
B. Abolish the Dept Of Education.
Or
C. Do all of the above in one fell swoop by privatising education.

Exactly, the Korean hagwon system IS the most ethical, efficient, and effective educational system in the world today!

I presume you are being sarcastic, but if I substituted public school for hagwon in your post, would the result really be any different?

My point was that your solutions for fixing things have been tried: In the hagwon system here.   There are no unions, the department of Education here by and large turns a blind eye to them and their curriculum, and they are all private.   In other words, what you are proposing is that hagwons become the sole 100% way of doing education in a country.  If that is not an outcome you'd prefer, I'd advise either revising or extending your opinions educational reform.

Offline DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2011, 05:38:10 PM »
Eronious is the word of the day  folks.

If Obama was talking about amercian teachers moving here to teach english in Korea, then he wasn't talking about real teaching jobs for teachers as most els waygs are working in hakwans.  So by comparing real teaching jobs in real schools in the us to the hakwan fakery in korea - he would have to be a complete idiot and I do not believe he is.

Perhaps he was talking about Korean govt and public schools making opportunities for their own natives? And deploring that unlike that situation, the us is churning out too many teachers when there are not enough jobs for them....?

Oh yeah and to suggest education in any country should become like the hakwan system - that is absurd.
If you think you can or can't do a thing - you are probably right.

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Offline Davox

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2011, 10:26:58 AM »
This is pretty much what I am proposing. Nothing you have said sounds that bad to me. you haven't given me a reason to "revise" or "extend" my views on education.

Fair enough then.  At least you're up front with your opinion, even though I completely disagree in almost every way.

Offline aldritg

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2011, 01:15:30 PM »
So lets privatize everything and bust up all the unions.  Teachers can get paid peanuts (if they get paid at all), which means nobody qualified or intelligent will want to do it, and if they do then the corporate asshole who runs the show will force them into extended hours, refuse sick leave, cut corners on everything they can.  (See: dirty hagwon boss)

You think education is a joke now?

Besides, worker's have the right to unionize just like companies have the right to lay people off.  If you don't want unions, there's a simple solution.  Stop screaming anti-regulation rhetoric that would put us back into serfdom and push for an economic system that treats workers justly and with dignity.  Then you won't need unions.

Offline aldritg

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2011, 01:21:20 PM »
Back on topic.  I hope he can follow through with this, but I'm not that psyched to hear about money being allocated for new computers.  Computers are a great tool, don't get me wrong, but there is no better resource than a good teacher.  Cut military spending, raise taxes on capital gains, employ some teachers and build some better public transpo.

This, of course, won't solve all the woes of the educational system.  A lot of it starts with the family and until we're ready, as a country, to take on poverty seriously there will always be kids 'left behind.' 

Offline aldritg

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2011, 11:45:18 AM »
This, of course, won't solve all the woes of the educational system.  A lot of it starts with the family and until we're ready, as a country, to take on poverty seriously there will always be kids 'left behind.'

Ick, I can't stand this line of reasoning. It assumes a moral decay (that doesn't exist imo) that can only be solved through moral elitism.

As for poverty? The govt and Fed infinitely expanding the money supply is the biggest cause of poverty.

I wasn't suggesting moral decay, but I am suggesting that family instability negatively complicates a student's educational path. 

For lower and lower middle class parents its nearly impossible to raise children without two incomes which takes away from time they have with their children, particularly at younger ages.  I would say that when children are very young, far more learning happens in the home than at school.  If this is correct, and therefore students from families where both parents work are starting from behind, the education system in its current capacity just isn't capable of bringing them up to speed, particularly without a large amount of parental involvement. 

It has nothing to do with morality or family values.  These parents are hard working and love their kids.  But you gotta put food on the table, even at the expense of time with your children. 

Having a less than sufficient family income also decreases the likelihood a student will be enabled to pursue post secondary education because of financial concerns.  Students are forced to take out loans to pay for school which leave them in mountains of debt upon their exit, and/or work full time jobs which will obviously negatively effect their studies.  To be clear: I'm not saying students should not work or that there's something terrible about it, but it does provide a competitive advantage both academically and socioeconomically to those from more privileged backgrounds -  i.e. poverty negatively affects education.

As for your previous post asking for other industries where workers are abused without proper regulations... take your pick really.  Luckily, in the states, we have a lot of regulations that keep this from occurring on our own soil (if you're okay with slave wagery, that is), but every couple years you hear about some American company shipping their production overseas only to find out that children are churning out garments for a nickel a piece or that the Chinese people making your kids' toys are being exposed to carcinogens and living 8 people to a room, 32 to a shower.  This is what happens when accountability shifts away from the workers and consumers and to the stakeholders.  But we're not talking about workers' rights, we're talking about education so we can move away from that topic or we should probably start our own thread and not hijack this one.

Offline aldritg

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Re: Obama...
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2011, 12:47:40 PM »
Unemployment amongst minorities... sure.  Unemployment period.  Also underemployment and low wages.  That contributes to 'the erosion of purchasing power' which is actually incorrect.  Purchasing power has grown along with our economy, it has just been relocated into the hands of a few.  So, in short, I'd say this reallocation of purchasing power is a result of unregulated profiteering.  Profits are obviously a good thing, and hard work/good business should be rewarded... but one man's work is only worth so much in my opinion no matter how good it is.  When CEOs are making 500x that of their low level employees, that's just heinous.  You could discover the cure for cancer and you shouldn't be allowed to make billions of dollars while there are families who can't afford to fix the heater.

 

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