Xenophobia alert! Korean textbook changes...

[leporello]

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/498117.html

Damn!

If Koreans can get worked up about changes in content to Middle school textbooks in Japan stating that Dokdo is Japanese territory, I wonder how they'll react to this?

The mind boggles

[woman-king]

Yeah, there are going to be some very unhappy Koreans about this.

However, the viewpoint that Japanese occupation ultimately created some benefits for Korea isn't unheard of here, despite the the rampant nationalism.  I've heard it expressed before.

[sejongthefabulous]

Yeah...ummm. They will just revise them again when the new president walks into town. They should just start teaching kids both the left and right wing views and teach them how to decide which they like best.....oh wait critical thinking alert.

[jimmyeatworldwar]

well this article is from hangyeoreh..
its widely known as the extreme liberal newspaper. They are famous for exagerating, and agitating social unrest/demonstrations etc.
the 2008 massive American beef demonstrations were instigated mainly by this newspaper.

Koreans don't trust them, and I don't trust them either..

[Yu_Bumsuk]

Read Andrei Lankov's The Dawn of Modern Korea. It's pretty clear that this was a time of sweeping modernisation across Korea. I know it bothers the hell out of some Koreans to know that they have Japan and Park Chunghee to thank for not being peasants anymore, but quite frankly I wouldn't mind getting jackbooted from a rice paddy to a Lotte Castle.

[leporello]

well this article is from hangyeoreh..
its widely known as the extreme liberal newspaper. They are famous for exagerating, and agitating social unrest/demonstrations etc.
the 2008 massive American beef demonstrations were instigated mainly by this newspaper.

Koreans don't trust them, and I don't trust them either..

[/b]

"Koreans don't trust them, and I don't trust them either".......

Well, you may not trust them , but I'm guessing someone does, since the Hankoreh is the fourth largest daily in Korea, with a circulation of approximately 600,000 papers per issue....

OK, I'll grant you that the Hankyoreh has a left wing bias...But so what? All of the other major newspapers in South Korea (the Chosun Ilbo, the Joongang daily and the Dong-a Ilbo) all have a strong conservative bias... In fact, the Koreans even have a term for it, Chojoongdong.... From Wikipedia:

Cho-Joong-Dong (조중동, CJD) is a generally negative nickname for the three major newspapers in South Korea, the Chosun Ilbo, Joongang Ilbo and Dong-a Ilbo, which are criticized (primarily among local leftists)[citation needed] for a purportedly uniform and conservative editorial stance, and for operating in an allegedly collusive and surreptitious manner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chojoongdong

And although the Hankyoreh does occasionally come out with a piece of zany left-wing nonsense, the majority of times the reporting is of a very high quality... In particular , it covers stories that the three main dailies just wont run... I particularly liked this description of the way it operates.... Again, from Wikipedia:

Hankyoreh was intended to provide an independent, left-leaning, and nationalist alternative to mainstream newspapers regarded as blindly pro-business, pro-American, and opposed to national reunification.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hankyoreh

Finally, the 2008 Anti-US beef protests weren't "instigated" by the Hankyoreh or any other SK newspapers, but instead by the MBC show PD Notebook, which aired a two-part special on US beef and the risks of mad cow disease:

Protests began shortly after the Korean channel MBC aired an episode of its news program PD Notebook, (alternately "PD Note," "PD Diary," and" PD Journal") called "Is American Beef Really Safe from Mad Cow Disease?" The program alleged that reopening the Korean market to American beef would expose Koreans to the threat of mad cow disease, and featured some footage of sick cattle being led to slaughter.

Massive demonstrations began shortly after the first broadcast, and increased when MBC aired another segment two weeks later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_US_beef_protest_in_South_Korea

@jimmyeatworldwar: I'm always up for a constructive discussion on topics like this, but kindly try and get your facts straight first before launching into a vitriolic (if inaccurate) attack on a subject you obviously know very little about...

Leporello

[peasgoodnonsuch]

The whole issue discussed in the article seems as muddy as the language used in the article itself. I guess it's because of the translation issue, but the style of the article seemed so dense it was difficult to maintain my attention and understand it all. But hey, maybe I've just been reading too much manga!

Anyway, it seems like the proposed textbook change is not really as simple as "hey, let's finally acknowledge the Japanese had something to do with our modernization". From the criticisms the article brings up, it would seem that the proposed textbook change regarding Japan, as well as some other textbook changes, are part of a larger political statement attempting to shore up capitalist democracy.

Whichever side you agree with, the author makes a very good point in bringing up the ACKH's relatively short history and weak foundations.

"Chu Chin-oh, a modern Korean history professor at Sangmyung University, said, 'Academic associations are research groups, but the Association for Contemporary Korean History has never once held an academic conference or issued an academic journal since its establishment.' "

What I don't understand is if the ACKH is just a puppet of the political right, attempting to stir up nationalist pride (as the article implies),  why would they want textbook changes that acknowledge the UN's part in Korean independence and the benefits of Japanese colonial rule?

I realize that the terms "liberal" and "conservative" mean something quite different here than back in the States, but I'm still somewhat confused on how Koreans define them. Anyone with greater knowledge care to shed some light on it for me?
Am I missing something here?

[jimmyeatworldwar]

well this article is from hangyeoreh..
its widely known as the extreme liberal newspaper. They are famous for exagerating, and agitating social unrest/demonstrations etc.
the 2008 massive American beef demonstrations were instigated mainly by this newspaper.

Koreans don't trust them, and I don't trust them either..

[/b]

"Koreans don't trust them, and I don't trust them either".......

Well, you may not trust them , but I'm guessing someone does, since the Hankoreh is the fourth largest daily in Korea, with a circulation of approximately 600,000 papers per issue....

OK, I'll grant you that the Hankyoreh has a left wing bias...But so what? All of the other major newspapers in South Korea (the Chosun Ilbo, the Joongang daily and the Dong-a Ilbo) all have a strong conservative bias... In fact, the Koreans even have a term for it, Chojoongdong.... From Wikipedia:

Cho-Joong-Dong (조중동, CJD) is a generally negative nickname for the three major newspapers in South Korea, the Chosun Ilbo, Joongang Ilbo and Dong-a Ilbo, which are criticized (primarily among local leftists)[citation needed] for a purportedly uniform and conservative editorial stance, and for operating in an allegedly collusive and surreptitious manner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chojoongdong

And although the Hankyoreh does occasionally come out with a piece of zany left-wing nonsense, the majority of times the reporting is of a very high quality... In particular , it covers stories that the three main dailies just wont run... I particularly liked this description of the way it operates.... Again, from Wikipedia:

Hankyoreh was intended to provide an independent, left-leaning, and nationalist alternative to mainstream newspapers regarded as blindly pro-business, pro-American, and opposed to national reunification.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hankyoreh

Finally, the 2008 Anti-US beef protests weren't "instigated" by the Hankyoreh or any other SK newspapers, but instead by the MBC show PD Notebook, which aired a two-part special on US beef and the risks of mad cow disease:

Protests began shortly after the Korean channel MBC aired an episode of its news program PD Notebook, (alternately "PD Note," "PD Diary," and" PD Journal") called "Is American Beef Really
@jimmyeatworldwar: I'm always up for a constructive discussion on topics like this, but kindly try and get your facts straight first before launching into a vitriolic (if inaccurate) attack on a subject you obviously know very little about...

Leporello

 Leporello,

It was good to see how you dig up the very reliable wikipedia to prove your point. FYI, your wikipedia article is written with  sources from Hangyoreh. go check out the reference section. (Where is your “get your facts straight”?) Does that ring a bell? Anyway.
You yourself said that it is the fourth largest newspaper on circulation. But consider this, Korea is a country strictly divided by the Right side (woopa) and the left side (jwapa). The three largest newspaper is considered to be leaning to the right side, and yes, it has a nickname made by the LEFTISTS. Generally its very logical that the opposing side make nicknames. Do you know what the Rightists here call Hangyoreh, Media Today, and Ohmynews? They call it the (in my rough english translation) “Media Crap”.
Try to go to the subway and see how many people actually read the Hangyeoreh. Ask any random Korean on what they think about the newspaper. I can bet that most will say “why read Hnagyeoreh”. It has a very bad reputation, known for distorting and agitating certain events. It has always put instigating titles that go against the governmental policies. Yes, it was the MBC pd notebook that started the issue but Hangyeoreh was on the forefront of the 2008 beef drama (almost always reporting how the imported beef will kill you), which turned out to be an unnecessary series of demonstrations by uneducated agitative citizens who had anti-us stances on everything. It opposed the Chongyechon reconstruction project, of which nobody can now dare say that it harmful to the city (Hangyeoreh said it was threatening the locals lol). It opposed the US Korea alliance back in 2007during the Roh administration (although a liberal). It opposed every governmental/municipal policies. No wonder people say it criticizes just for the sake of criticizing.

Mediocre research ain’t good mate.

[leporello]

Anyway, it seems like the proposed textbook change is not really as simple as "hey, let's finally acknowledge the Japanese had something to do with our modernization". From the criticisms the article brings up, it would seem that the proposed textbook change regarding Japan, as well as some other textbook changes, are part of a larger political statement attempting to shore up capitalist democracy.

Yeah, I completely agree with you, but you just know it wont be read that way... For most Koreans, saying anything that's even remotely positive about the Japanese occupation period is anathema, irrespective of historical truth...

[leporello]

 Leporello,

It was good to see how you dig up the very reliable wikipedia to prove your point. FYI, your wikipedia article is written with  sources from Hangyoreh. go check out the reference section. (Where is your “get your facts straight”?) Does that ring a bell? Anyway.
You yourself said that it is the fourth largest newspaper on circulation. But consider this, Korea is a country strictly divided by the Right side (woopa) and the left side (jwapa). The three largest newspaper is considered to be leaning to the right side, and yes, it has a nickname made by the LEFTISTS. Generally its very logical that the opposing side make nicknames. Do you know what the Rightists here call Hangyoreh, Media Today, and Ohmynews? They call it the (in my rough english translation) “Media Crap”.
Try to go to the subway and see how many people actually read the Hangyeoreh. Ask any random Korean on what they think about the newspaper. I can bet that most will say “why read Hnagyeoreh”. It has a very bad reputation, known for distorting and agitating certain events. It has always put instigating titles that go against the governmental policies. Yes, it was the MBC pd notebook that started the issue but Hangyeoreh was on the forefront of the 2008 beef drama (almost always reporting how the imported beef will kill you), which turned out to be an unnecessary series of demonstrations by uneducated agitative citizens who had anti-us stances on everything. It opposed the Chongyechon reconstruction project, of which nobody can now dare say that it harmful to the city (Hangyeoreh said it was threatening the locals lol). It opposed the US Korea alliance back in 2007during the Roh administration (although a liberal). It opposed every governmental/municipal policies. No wonder people say it criticizes just for the sake of criticizing.

Mediocre research ain’t good mate.

And in all your post, where did I see your research?Nowhere...References? Nowhere...Links to the site/s that you got your information from? Nowhere....As in your last post on this topic, you thought up an opinion and in the place of facts to try and prove your argument you came up with innuendo, obfuscation and hot air to justify your claims...I provided backing and resources for my argument, you just came up with "Try and go to the subway station and...." and "It has always put instigating titles that"... So I'm meant to just take your word that this is how it is, right? Uh, no...

To put it bluntly, I don't want to hear your opinion, but where you got your opinion from, and how you developed it... Otherwise, you are wasting my time...

P.S-Don't knock Wikipedia... It's a damn sight better than anything you can come up with...

[jimmyeatworldwar]

 Leporello,

It was good to see how you dig up the very reliable wikipedia to prove your point. FYI, your wikipedia article is written with  sources from Hangyoreh. go check out the reference section. (Where is your “get your facts straight”?) Does that ring a bell? Anyway.
You yourself said that it is the fourth largest newspaper on circulation. But consider this, Korea is a country strictly divided by the Right side (woopa) and the left side (jwapa). The three largest newspaper is considered to be leaning to the right side, and yes, it has a nickname made by the LEFTISTS. Generally its very logical that the opposing side make nicknames. Do you know what the Rightists here call Hangyoreh, Media Today, and Ohmynews? They call it the (in my rough english translation) “Media Crap”.
Try to go to the subway and see how many people actually read the Hangyeoreh. Ask any random Korean on what they think about the newspaper. I can bet that most will say “why read Hnagyeoreh”. It has a very bad reputation, known for distorting and agitating certain events. It has always put instigating titles that go against the governmental policies. Yes, it was the MBC pd notebook that started the issue but Hangyeoreh was on the forefront of the 2008 beef drama (almost always reporting how the imported beef will kill you), which turned out to be an unnecessary series of demonstrations by uneducated agitative citizens who had anti-us stances on everything. It opposed the Chongyechon reconstruction project, of which nobody can now dare say that it harmful to the city (Hangyeoreh said it was threatening the locals lol). It opposed the US Korea alliance back in 2007during the Roh administration (although a liberal). It opposed every governmental/municipal policies. No wonder people say it criticizes just for the sake of criticizing.

Mediocre research ain’t good mate.

And in all your post, where did I see your research?Nowhere...References? Nowhere...Links to the site/s that you got your information from? Nowhere....As in your last post on this topic, you thought up an opinion and in the place of facts to try and prove your argument you came up with innuendo, obfuscation and hot air to justify your claims...I provided backing and resources for my argument, you just came up with "Try and go to the subway station and...." and "It has always put instigating titles that"... So I'm meant to just take your word that this is how it is, right? Uh, no...

To put it bluntly, I don't want to hear your opinion, but where you got your opinion from, and how you developed it... Otherwise, you are wasting my time...

P.S-Don't knock Wikipedia... It's a damn sight better than anything you can come up with...

 Leporello,

It was good to see how you dig up the very reliable wikipedia to prove your point. FYI, your wikipedia article is written with  sources from Hangyoreh. go check out the reference section. (Where is your “get your facts straight”?) Does that ring a bell? Anyway.
You yourself said that it is the fourth largest newspaper on circulation. But consider this, Korea is a country strictly divided by the Right side (woopa) and the left side (jwapa). The three largest newspaper is considered to be leaning to the right side, and yes, it has a nickname made by the LEFTISTS. Generally its very logical that the opposing side make nicknames. Do you know what the Rightists here call Hangyoreh, Media Today, and Ohmynews? They call it the (in my rough english translation) “Media Crap”.
Try to go to the subway and see how many people actually read the Hangyeoreh. Ask any random Korean on what they think about the newspaper. I can bet that most will say “why read Hnagyeoreh”. It has a very bad reputation, known for distorting and agitating certain events. It has always put instigating titles that go against the governmental policies. Yes, it was the MBC pd notebook that started the issue but Hangyeoreh was on the forefront of the 2008 beef drama (almost always reporting how the imported beef will kill you), which turned out to be an unnecessary series of demonstrations by uneducated agitative citizens who had anti-us stances on everything. It opposed the Chongyechon reconstruction project, of which nobody can now dare say that it harmful to the city (Hangyeoreh said it was threatening the locals lol). It opposed the US Korea alliance back in 2007during the Roh administration (although a liberal). It opposed every governmental/municipal policies. No wonder people say it criticizes just for the sake of criticizing.

Mediocre research ain’t good mate.

And in all your post, where did I see your research?Nowhere...References? Nowhere...Links to the site/s that you got your information from? Nowhere....As in your last post on this topic, you thought up an opinion and in the place of facts to try and prove your argument you came up with innuendo, obfuscation and hot air to justify your claims...I provided backing and resources for my argument, you just came up with "Try and go to the subway station and...." and "It has always put instigating titles that"... So I'm meant to just take your word that this is how it is, right? Uh, no...

To put it bluntly, I don't want to hear your opinion, but where you got your opinion from, and how you developed it... Otherwise, you are wasting my time...

P.S-Don't knock Wikipedia... It's a damn sight better than anything you can come up with...

mate,

first of all, citing sources from wikipedia is not considered "research" even in the middleschools nowadays lol and.. You were defending the Hangyeoreh using Hangyoreh's resource?? Uhmm How is that a justifiable resource anyway.

My comment also never mentioned that I did research- why would I need research when there is a very conspicuous general consensus by the population? If you also think you'll need research to understand North Korea regime is a bad one.. by all means I will do it for you for my next comment.

Instead of merely saying "I Don't want to hear your opinion" why don't you try putting some effort on doing so? I mean, isn't that the whole point of this site? What happened to the "constructive argument" you mentioned before?

[leporello]

Sigh... Seriously, did you just re-post your post from yesterday? It seems virtually identical...

To be perfectly honest, I'm getting bored with this thread in a big way, so I won't be coming back here, but please feel free to keep on a-scoring points at my (albiet non-existent) expense...

Sayonnara

[jimmyeatworldwar]

not answering a single question Im asking eh?



hmm I think I get it.

[Horus]

Imperialism is often a mixed bag. It's like the "Life of Brian". You have the Jewish rebels saying "What have the Romans ever done for us?" One bloke responds: "Well the aquaducts are pretty awesome. The streets are much safer. We finally have some nice architecture, and the wine is much better etc." I'm sure the Japanese did a lot of good in Korea, as well as a lot of bad. Same in former British colonies. Sure we stole resources, but we brought modern science, technology, notions of liberal democracy and the free market, stunning architecture, medicine and a hundred other postives. So I wouldn't be surprised to find out that although Japanese rule was undoubtedly nasty, it wasn't all bad.