Author Topic: Canada - US border fence  (Read 762 times)

Offline Cereal

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Canada - US border fence
« on: September 30, 2011, 04:06:18 pm »
[b]U.S. eyes fencing along Canadian border as missing link in security

OTTAWA - The United States is looking at building fences along the border with Canada to help keep out terrorists and other criminals.

The U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency has proposed the use of "fencing and other barriers" on the 49th parallel to manage "trouble spots where passage of cross-border violators is difficult to control."
The border service is also pondering options including a beefed-up technological presence through increased use of radar, sensors, cameras, drones and vehicle scanners. In addition, it might continue to improve or expand customs facilities at ports of entry.

The agency considered but ruled out the possibility of hiring "significantly more" U.S. Border Patrol agents to increase the rate of inspections, noting staffing has already risen in recent years.

The proposals are spelled out in a new draft report by the border service that examines the possible environmental impact of the various options over the next five to seven years.

Customs and Border Protection is inviting comment on the options and plans a series of public meetings in Washington and several U.S. border communities next month. It will then decide which ideas to pursue.
U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano noted last month the challenges of monitoring the vast, sparsely populated northern border region. She stressed manpower, but also a greater reliance on technology.

Ironically, the moves come as Canada and the U.S. try to finalize a perimeter security arrangement that would focus on continental defences while easing border congestion. It would be aimed at speeding passage of goods and people across the Canada-U.S. border, which has become something of a bottleneck since the 9-11 terrorist attacks

Relatively speaking, Washington has focused more energy and resources on tightening security along the border with Mexico than at the sprawling one with Canada.

But that may be changing.

A U.S. Government Accountability Office report recently warned that only a small portion of the border with Canada is properly secure. It said U.S. border officers control just 50 kilometres of the 6,400-kilometre boundary.

The Customs and Border Protection report says while fences have been a big element in deterring unauthorized crossings of the U.S.-Mexican border, "it is unlikely that fencing will play as prominent a role" on the northern border, given its length and terrain that varies from prairie to forest.
However, the agency would use fencing and other barriers such as trenches to control movement and sometimes delay people trying to sneak across the border, increasing the likelihood they could be caught, says the report.

It doesn't provide details about what the fences might look like, but suggests they would be designed to blend into the environment and "complement the natural landscape."

The approach would also involve upgrading roadways and trails near the border.

"The lack of roads or presence of unmaintained roads impedes efficient surveillance operations," says the report. "Improving or expanding the roadway and trail networks could improve mobility, allowing agents to patrol more miles each day and shortening response times."

Over the last two years, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security has already made what it calls "critical security improvements along the northern border," adding inspectors at the ports of entry and Border Patrol agents between ports, as well as modernizing land crossings.

Nearly 3,800 Customs and Border Protection officers scrutinize people and goods at crossings. The number of Border Patrol agents working between crossings along the northern parallel has increased 700 per cent since Sept. 11, 2001. And some three dozen land ports of entry are being modernized.

Unmanned U.S. aircraft patrol about 1,500 kilometres along the northern border from Washington to Minnesota as well as more than 300 kilometres of the Canadian border around New York state and Lake Ontario.
[/b]

Instead of fencing the world out - or locking themselves in depending on how you look at it - why doesn't the US federal government ask themselves the tough question, "Why do so many want to hurt us?"
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Offline Horus

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 09:50:45 am »
A border fence is a great idea. It'll help keep all of the illegal drugs and firearms out of Canada.

Offline Sprite06

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2011, 10:12:28 am »
A border fence is a great idea. It'll help keep all of the illegal drugs and firearms out of Canada.

Quote
In its 2007 report, the UN found that Canada led the industrialized world in marijuana use, at least when calculated as a percentage of population.

In its 2009 report, Canada is cited as the leading supplier of ecstasy in North America as well as a major producer and shipper of methamphetamine for markets around the world.

Canada is the leading supplier of the drug ecstasy in North America and a growing producer of methamphetamine for markets around the world, a new United Nations report has found.  The report says the Canadian-based trade in methamphetamine has grown so much since 2003 that by 2007, 83 per cent of all methamphetamine seized in Australia came from Canada. In Japan, the figure was 62 per cent.

Since 2003, the report says, Canada has emerged as the primary source of ecstasy for North American markets. In 2007, 50 per cent of the ecstasy produced in labs in Canada was exported — mostly to the United States, Australia and Japan.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2009/06/24/f-unitednations-drug-report-canada-ecstasy.html


Offline Cereal

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2011, 10:33:54 am »
A border fence is a great idea. It'll help keep all of the illegal drugs and firearms out of Canada.

Quote
In its 2007 report, the UN found that Canada led the industrialized world in marijuana use, at least when calculated as a percentage of population.

In its 2009 report, Canada is cited as the leading supplier of ecstasy in North America as well as a major producer and shipper of methamphetamine for markets around the world.

Canada is the leading supplier of the drug ecstasy in North America and a growing producer of methamphetamine for markets around the world, a new United Nations report has found.  The report says the Canadian-based trade in methamphetamine has grown so much since 2003 that by 2007, 83 per cent of all methamphetamine seized in Australia came from Canada. In Japan, the figure was 62 per cent.

Since 2003, the report says, Canada has emerged as the primary source of ecstasy for North American markets. In 2007, 50 per cent of the ecstasy produced in labs in Canada was exported — mostly to the United States, Australia and Japan.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2009/06/24/f-unitednations-drug-report-canada-ecstasy.html

I can't see how a fence will stop any of these shenanigans, nor does it answer the question. What could, or should, the US do to lessen the focus and ire of radical extremists that wish to do her harm?
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Offline Sprite06

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2011, 11:06:53 am »
A border fence is a great idea. It'll help keep all of the illegal drugs and firearms out of Canada.

Quote
In its 2007 report, the UN found that Canada led the industrialized world in marijuana use, at least when calculated as a percentage of population.

In its 2009 report, Canada is cited as the leading supplier of ecstasy in North America as well as a major producer and shipper of methamphetamine for markets around the world.

Canada is the leading supplier of the drug ecstasy in North America and a growing producer of methamphetamine for markets around the world, a new United Nations report has found.  The report says the Canadian-based trade in methamphetamine has grown so much since 2003 that by 2007, 83 per cent of all methamphetamine seized in Australia came from Canada. In Japan, the figure was 62 per cent.

Since 2003, the report says, Canada has emerged as the primary source of ecstasy for North American markets. In 2007, 50 per cent of the ecstasy produced in labs in Canada was exported — mostly to the United States, Australia and Japan.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2009/06/24/f-unitednations-drug-report-canada-ecstasy.html

I can't see how a fence will stop any of these shenanigans, nor does it answer the question. What could, or should, the US do to lessen the focus and ire of radical extremists that wish to do her harm?

My post was simply a response to the implication that the US is responsible for putting illegal drugs in Canada and that a border would stop that.

To answer your question, I imagine there are two major fields of opinions.  (Not saying that these are true opinions, just speculating.)

One says that people across the world want to harm the US because the US is a symbol of freedom and democracy.  As long as the US is aggressively supporting governments and lifestyles that are vastly different than others, it will naturally create enemies.  "Leader of the free world." 

The other may say that people target the US because of its foreign policies and involvements.  What many people don't seem to realize is that many of these terrorist organizations are really just ideologies, etc.  You can't kill an idea.  Killing terrorists won't end terrorism.  Some believe that by being in the middle east, attacking terrorist groups, using aggressive force, that the US is actually creating more terrorist motivation and organizations, not ending them.  Terrorism isn't an entity, or a country.  It's a belief.  The US can't effectively destroy a belief, but it can convert plenty of civilian into enemies by placing troops in their neighborhoods. 

The "World Police" attitude can create plenty of hostility.  Some people believe that the US has military bases in over 60 different countries and military personnel in over 150. 

So I guess one says that people will inevitably hate America because of what America stands for, a country of freedom and democracy.  (In a country like Saudi Arabia, it's still illegal for women to drive cars.)

The other says that people hate America because of America's aggressive international involvements and World Police attitude.



I won't post my personal opinion of which is more responsible, if either. 

Offline sejongthefabulous

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2011, 12:20:05 pm »
There are already fences between some areas of Mexico and USA. It doesn't stop the drug trade or human smuggling, it just makes it more organized and sophisticated. This is just security firms lobbying the government so they can get lucrative contracts. They can fence the entire thing, it will barely slow it down. Better USA paying for it than Canada.

Offline rampancy

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2011, 12:36:37 pm »
My post was simply a response to the implication that the US is responsible for putting illegal drugs in Canada and that a border would stop that.

I had the impression that Horus's post was more snark and sarcasm than an actual factual statement. Just like how some GOP politicians talked about how a fence along the US-CAN border would "keep out the barbarians out", and a lot of us on the other side said "Yeah, it'd be doing us a favour..."

Anyway, I think that the question of whether or not such a fence would be effective is ultimately moot. It's reflective of what I've seen to be an increasingly xenophobic and ultra-nationalistic attitude among the right-wing in the US - just the notion of having it in place is enough to make them feel "safe".
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Offline Sprite06

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2011, 12:48:23 pm »
My post was simply a response to the implication that the US is responsible for putting illegal drugs in Canada and that a border would stop that.

I had the impression that Horus's post was more snark and sarcasm than an actual factual statement. Just like how some GOP politicians talked about how a fence along the US-CAN border would "keep out the barbarians out", and a lot of us on the other side said "Yeah, it'd be doing us a favour..."

Anyway, I think that the question of whether or not such a fence would be effective is ultimately moot. It's reflective of what I've seen to be an increasingly xenophobic and ultra-nationalistic attitude among the right-wing in the US - just the notion of having it in place is enough to make them feel "safe".

lol did a politician really say that?

I agree the fence would be a waste of resources.   There are more important things to be doing in the US than wasting tax dollars of an already recessed economy on building a fence along the border of an ally. 


Offline rampancy

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2011, 12:54:08 pm »
lol did a politician really say that?

I agree the fence would be a waste of resources.   There are more important things to be doing in the US than wasting tax dollars of an already recessed economy on building a fence along the border of an ally.

I think it was Joe Liebermann who said that several years ago; I remember a particularly funny sketch on the Royal Canadian Air Farce which riffed off of that...admittedly for the life of me I can't find a link to the story.
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Offline taeyang

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2011, 01:58:34 pm »
seems like a gigantic waste of money as well.

only more money to add to the u.s. deficit.

it's like those suicide barriers that they build on bridges on subway platforms. people will always find another way...
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Offline alwaysgood

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2011, 03:54:42 pm »
While we're at it, I propose putting a fence around Alabama. 

Offline bobrocket

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2011, 08:20:18 pm »
Is it really that bad in the US?

Why don't they just take Canada, I'm sure they have weapons of something?

I don't really know about these politics so ass you were.

Offline pak yu man

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2011, 10:49:44 pm »
Are these going to be like the ones between the US and Mexico?  You know the ones they spent so much money on researching the perfect barrier and two 15 year old girls climb up them in 30 secs.  Way to go America.  Waste more money.

Offline Cereal

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2011, 01:40:28 pm »
This is my favourite line in the whole story. I am curious to see exactly what this fence would look like.

It doesn't provide details about what the fences might look like, but suggests they would be designed to blend into the environment and "complement the natural landscape."

Maybe they could build a 1/4" thick mountain range a la Hollywood!
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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2011, 07:34:31 pm »
Yeah, man, like that's really going to help...

Offline Spongeblob

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2011, 06:39:24 am »
Gee-whiz, I hope nobody bad has a ladder.  :o

Offline Davox

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2011, 09:31:23 am »
The Canada/US border is one of the longest in the world, and huge stretches of it are total wilderness.  It is not physically or economically possible to secure all of it, it literally cannot be done.  If a person actually cared about security they'd do what the article claimed was proposed until the US politicians got a hold of it: work together on securing ports and airports in BOTH countries, because you can actually make a security difference there,  but have more lax movement between the two countries, which would actually help the economy in both countries.

Offline Cereal

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2011, 01:22:44 pm »
The Canada/US border is one of the longest in the world, and huge stretches of it are total wilderness.  It is not physically or economically possible to secure all of it, it literally cannot be done.  If a person actually cared about security they'd do what the article claimed was proposed until the US politicians got a hold of it: work together on securing ports and airports in BOTH countries, because you can actually make a security difference there,  but have more lax movement between the two countries, which would actually help the economy in both countries.

All it would cost is an aircraft carrier or two or a handful of B1 Bombers. If they can build The Great Wall and the pyramids they could build a wall between Canada and the States. It's still a stupid idea. They should consider combining a security force, The North American Border Patrol, or something like that.
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Offline woman-king

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2011, 06:25:42 pm »
Of all the things my government needs to worry about right now, I do not think that security issues involving the Canadian border should be very high on the priority list.  ::)

Offline Davox

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Re: Canada - US border fence
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2011, 11:58:25 am »
The Canada/US border is one of the longest in the world, and huge stretches of it are total wilderness.  It is not physically or economically possible to secure all of it, it literally cannot be done.  If a person actually cared about security they'd do what the article claimed was proposed until the US politicians got a hold of it: work together on securing ports and airports in BOTH countries, because you can actually make a security difference there,  but have more lax movement between the two countries, which would actually help the economy in both countries.

All it would cost is an aircraft carrier or two or a handful of B1 Bombers. If they can build The Great Wall and the pyramids they could build a wall between Canada and the States. It's still a stupid idea. They should consider combining a security force, The North American Border Patrol, or something like that.

Building it initially, sure.  But then you need to patrol it, fix it, monitor it and maintain it.  That's the real cost.