Gangs in Incheon

[Frozencat99]

Please  explain to me how they are decent people if they run all this??   :o :o :o

I know a couple who run illegal gaming houses. I know that in the past they've done "jobs" for people and one of them's served serious prison time, but what they're doing now hardly seems worse than owning shares in casinos. One of them married his gf after getting her pregnant and is just trying to provide a decent life for his family. I'd call him a decent guy, though admittedly I don't know what all he does and don't want to.

Ummmm, if that is all he does then he doesn't fit into the league of gangster we are talking about.  By your own admission you don't know all he does, so how can you possibly say he is a decent guy??  He might be involved in human trafficking for all you know, would you then call him a decent guy??

So instead gangsters are all terrible by association because some of them run drug rings (oh so evil), prostitution rings, human trafficking, etc.? Ease off that judgment. Think of Breaking Bad, if you watch it. Some people believe the ends justify the means, and as such, gangsters can be just as respectable depending on their ends. Likewise, cops can be just as easily be degraded -- after all, some of them are crooked, help drug trafficking for their own cut, and get away with assault and traffic violations frequently.
No one knows all of what anyone else does. Maybe I'm a serial killer after 5PM.

Yes, by association they are.  I can't believe you are trying to justify their behaviour and I find it rather strange that you don't think that drug rings are evil.

Of course you get crooked cops and they are just as bad but to try and rationalise gangsters behaviour in terms of that is rather strange.

As was implied, maybe to you they are evil and guilty of whatever it is you are deeming immoral or indecent. As a criminology graduate, drug rings and cartels are only capable of the evil we define and by the power we enable. I'm surprised you went out of your way to mark drug rings as evil, and not prostitution/human trafficking rings.

To stay on topic, I was told that gangs are becoming active in Seoul by my coordinator, who suggested I hide my tattoos while here in case I get involved with them.

[jaysoon17]

I met a couple of gangsters in Gangnam a couple of months after I arrived to Korea. They tried to sell me some cocaine. After refusing their offer a few times, they pulled me to the side, stared me down and then slowly pulled something out of a bag.

What was it?

It was an English book. They had me teach them some Korean phrases for about 30 minutes while they waited for their boss to come. Their boss arrived, they showed me their tattoos, said a few jokes and then let me run off. I taught them for free of course   

Korean gangsters are definitely not like back home in the States. You can hardly tell if you pass one on the street.

[woman-king]

Please  explain to me how they are decent people if they run all this??   :o :o :o

I know a couple who run illegal gaming houses. I know that in the past they've done "jobs" for people and one of them's served serious prison time, but what they're doing now hardly seems worse than owning shares in casinos. One of them married his gf after getting her pregnant and is just trying to provide a decent life for his family. I'd call him a decent guy, though admittedly I don't know what all he does and don't want to.

Ummmm, if that is all he does then he doesn't fit into the league of gangster we are talking about.  By your own admission you don't know all he does, so how can you possibly say he is a decent guy??  He might be involved in human trafficking for all you know, would you then call him a decent guy??

So instead gangsters are all terrible by association because some of them run drug rings (oh so evil), prostitution rings, human trafficking, etc.? Ease off that judgment. Think of Breaking Bad, if you watch it. Some people believe the ends justify the means, and as such, gangsters can be just as respectable depending on their ends. Likewise, cops can be just as easily be degraded -- after all, some of them are crooked, help drug trafficking for their own cut, and get away with assault and traffic violations frequently.
No one knows all of what anyone else does. Maybe I'm a serial killer after 5PM.

Yes, by association they are.  I can't believe you are trying to justify their behaviour and I find it rather strange that you don't think that drug rings are evil.Of course you get crooked cops and they are just as bad but to try and rationalise gangsters behaviour in terms of that is rather strange.

Or human trafficking.  Good God. 

And the existence of corrupt cops, or bad people in other places, hardly absolves human traffickers, other criminals, and those who knowingly associate with them.  A sense of "judgment" can actually do a lot of good.

[confusedsafferinkorea]

'Or human trafficking.  Good God.

And the existence of corrupt cops, or bad people in other places, hardly absolves human traffickers, other criminals, and those who knowingly associate with them.  A sense of "judgment" can actually do a lot of good.'


Agree 100%. I cannot believe there are actually people here on this forum that try to rationalise criminals behaviour in terms of other peoples (cops, politicians etc) corrupt behaviour. Two wrongs don't make a right and saying that because we have other bad people in society means that you can say that gangsters involved in drug and human trafficking, organising prostitution and illegal gambling are decent people, boggles my mind.   :o :o :o :o

[woman-king]

'Or human trafficking.  Good God.

And the existence of corrupt cops, or bad people in other places, hardly absolves human traffickers, other criminals, and those who knowingly associate with them.  A sense of "judgment" can actually do a lot of good.'


Agree 100%. I cannot believe there are actually people here on this forum that try to rationalise criminals behaviour in terms of other peoples (cops, politicians etc) corrupt behaviour. Two wrongs don't make a right and saying that because we have other bad people in society means that you can say that gangsters involved in drug and human trafficking, organising prostitution and illegal gambling are decent people, boggles my mind.   :o :o :o :o

Yeah, I can see making an ethical distinction between, say, illegal gambling and trafficking underage prostitutes, but it's pretty interesting to see any and all organized crime activity justified if the people involved are like, you know . . . nice-enough neighbors or whatever.

I get that a lot of people here are very invested in Korea, feel like it's their long-term home, love the people and culture and feel like social criticisms of it on this board are unjust, but come on.  You can take a position that Korea is a pretty good country without having to defend everything about it...including their human traffickers.

[Frozencat99]

'Or human trafficking.  Good God.

And the existence of corrupt cops, or bad people in other places, hardly absolves human traffickers, other criminals, and those who knowingly associate with them.  A sense of "judgment" can actually do a lot of good.'


Agree 100%. I cannot believe there are actually people here on this forum that try to rationalise criminals behaviour in terms of other peoples (cops, politicians etc) corrupt behaviour. Two wrongs don't make a right and saying that because we have other bad people in society means that you can say that gangsters involved in drug and human trafficking, organising prostitution and illegal gambling are decent people, boggles my mind.   :o :o :o :o

I cannot believe there are people who try to rationalize their opinions about criminals and human behaviour without educating themselves first. I guess we're going to both leave here boggled.

Also, as a courtesy, please don't put words in my mouth. I never tried to rationalize that drug dealers are okay because we have corrupt cops. Reading comprehension would have led you to the analogy I was making: saying that all gangsters are guilty by association is like saying all cops are guilty by association -- I mean, they made a judgment call and are willfully doing something, right? Not to mention what flies under the radar of most people who are badge blind.

Drug rings are a hilariously week example to use. If you think they are at all within the league of trafficking human slaves, or objectifying women as sex objects to be sold and traded, or of "illegal gambling", my mind is beyond boggled. Its baffled.

'Or human trafficking.  Good God.

And the existence of corrupt cops, or bad people in other places, hardly absolves human traffickers, other criminals, and those who knowingly associate with them.  A sense of "judgment" can actually do a lot of good.'


Agree 100%. I cannot believe there are actually people here on this forum that try to rationalise criminals behaviour in terms of other peoples (cops, politicians etc) corrupt behaviour. Two wrongs don't make a right and saying that because we have other bad people in society means that you can say that gangsters involved in drug and human trafficking, organising prostitution and illegal gambling are decent people, boggles my mind.   :o :o :o :o

Yeah, I can see making an ethical distinction between, say, illegal gambling and trafficking underage prostitutes, but it's pretty interesting to see any and all organized crime activity justified if the people involved are like, you know . . . nice-enough neighbors or whatever.

I get that a lot of people here are very invested in Korea, feel like it's their long-term home, love the people and culture and feel like social criticisms of it on this board are unjust, but come on.  You can take a position that Korea is a pretty good country without having to defend everything about it...including their human traffickers.

So by what right do we swing the judgment hammer in their direction? Do their motivations not matter because "they're breaking the law"? The Breaking Bad example, though I am fully aware it is fictional, is a great example. You can scorn people for breaking the law all you want or for being involved in "organized crime". Feel free. Ignoring the fact that many people don't have the option to leave it, especially when pulled in by family, it feels good to judge other people.

It has nothing to do with defending Korea, it has everything to do with how uncritically people think about criminal justice.

[woman-king]

'Or human trafficking.  Good God.

And the existence of corrupt cops, or bad people in other places, hardly absolves human traffickers, other criminals, and those who knowingly associate with them.  A sense of "judgment" can actually do a lot of good.'


Agree 100%. I cannot believe there are actually people here on this forum that try to rationalise criminals behaviour in terms of other peoples (cops, politicians etc) corrupt behaviour. Two wrongs don't make a right and saying that because we have other bad people in society means that you can say that gangsters involved in drug and human trafficking, organising prostitution and illegal gambling are decent people, boggles my mind.   :o :o :o :o

I cannot believe there are people who try to rationalize their opinions about criminals and human behaviour without educating themselves first. I guess we're going to both leave here boggled.

Also, as a courtesy, please don't put words in my mouth. I never tried to rationalize that drug dealers are okay because we have corrupt cops. Reading comprehension would have led you to the analogy I was making: saying that all gangsters are guilty by association is like saying all cops are guilty by association -- I mean, they made a judgment call and are willfully doing something, right? Not to mention what flies under the radar of most people who are badge blind.

Drug rings are a hilariously week example to use. If you think they are at all within the league of trafficking human slaves, or objectifying women as sex objects to be sold and traded, or of "illegal gambling", my mind is beyond boggled. Its baffled.

'Or human trafficking.  Good God.

And the existence of corrupt cops, or bad people in other places, hardly absolves human traffickers, other criminals, and those who knowingly associate with them.  A sense of "judgment" can actually do a lot of good.'


Agree 100%. I cannot believe there are actually people here on this forum that try to rationalise criminals behaviour in terms of other peoples (cops, politicians etc) corrupt behaviour. Two wrongs don't make a right and saying that because we have other bad people in society means that you can say that gangsters involved in drug and human trafficking, organising prostitution and illegal gambling are decent people, boggles my mind.   :o :o :o :o

Yeah, I can see making an ethical distinction between, say, illegal gambling and trafficking underage prostitutes, but it's pretty interesting to see any and all organized crime activity justified if the people involved are like, you know . . . nice-enough neighbors or whatever.

I get that a lot of people here are very invested in Korea, feel like it's their long-term home, love the people and culture and feel like social criticisms of it on this board are unjust, but come on.  You can take a position that Korea is a pretty good country without having to defend everything about it...including their human traffickers.

So by what right do we swing the judgment hammer in their direction? Do their motivations not matter because "they're breaking the law"? The Breaking Bad example, though I am fully aware it is fictional, is a great example. You can scorn people for breaking the law all you want or for being involved in "organized crime". Feel free. Ignoring the fact that many people don't have the option to leave it, especially when pulled in by family, it feels good to judge other people.

It has nothing to do with defending Korea, it has everything to do with how uncritically people think about criminal justice.

Right, but he brought up human trafficking and I don't think you or anyone else ever made it clear as to what type of criminal activity you were talking about.

Anyway, uh...yeah, people judge criminals.  What's really "baffling" for me is someone getting offended by that, as.  There are probably people with families involved in illegal gambling or the drug trade who still treat their children and neighbors decently and yes, their situation is complicated, but I'm not sure why that should ultimately change anything in the criminal justice system.  The romanticization of organized crime families in the media has created a sort of cultural fascination with them, and I'd be very interested to hear how many individuals out there derived this idea of "They're just nice people who happened to be born into this" from that cultural myth, as opposed to getting it from actual positive experiences with members of organized crime families.  I know one poster on here mentioned some neighbors with shady legal pasts who are still nice ordinary folks.  Fine.  I still think much of this perception is more fantasy than reality.

Anyway, the original point in this thread--mine at least--was that brushing off gangs/mafia in Korea as somehow being "less threatening" than American ones makes no sense at all, and really I got no response to that other than "Some people who do shady things can still be decent people in other areas of their life so stop hating."  Which may be a valid point, but doesn't address the fact that organized crime in Korea--and Asia--is pretty powerful and a real problem.  Human trafficking is a real human rights concern across the continent.  You can say it's about an understanding of criminal justice and not about defending Korea, but I find this "safe, peaceful, crime-free culture" narrative sometimes projected onto Korea by parts of its expat community misleading and just sort of silly.

[flasyb]

but I find this "safe, peaceful, crime-free culture" narrative sometimes projected onto Korea by parts of its expat community misleading and just sort of silly.

Could you find a couple of examples where people on this forum have claimed that Korea is a "crime-free culture." It might be safer than many of our own countries in different ways but I have never heard/read anyone say it's crime free. If you could show me that, that'd be great but until then, I have to assume you are talking about fictional people. That's people you made up for the purposes of making your point.


As for the rest, I agree with frozencat99, woman-king and confusedsaffer. You all actually agree. Gangsters are probably involved in doing bad things in Korea. They mainly run protection rackets (not great if you have to pay profits from your business to criminal gangs) but if there's prostitution or even human trafficking involved, they'll likely be the ones doing it. Definitely not cool. You probably all agree that you may not know the internal or family pressures that gangsters find themselves under and so judging them as outright "evil" or "just plain bad" is too easy and over-simplifies a complicated issue. Maybe not though.

What I see here is another thread where people think more or less the same thing but have wound up arguing about it. I did this for an hour with a friend in a bar last Friday. It just happens because people want to "win."

[Frozencat99]

but I find this "safe, peaceful, crime-free culture" narrative sometimes projected onto Korea by parts of its expat community misleading and just sort of silly.

Could you find a couple of examples where people on this forum have claimed that Korea is a "crime-free culture." It might be safer than many of our own countries in different ways but I have never heard/read anyone say it's crime free. If you could show me that, that'd be great but until then, I have to assume you are talking about fictional people. That's people you made up for the purposes of making your point.


As for the rest, I agree with frozencat99, woman-king and confusedsaffer. You all actually agree. Gangsters are probably involved in doing bad things in Korea. They mainly run protection rackets (not great if you have to pay profits from your business to criminal gangs) but if there's prostitution or even human trafficking involved, they'll likely be the ones doing it. Definitely not cool. You probably all agree that you may not know the internal or family pressures that gangsters find themselves under and so judging them as outright "evil" or "just plain bad" is too easy and over-simplifies a complicated issue. Maybe not though.

What I see here is another thread where people think more or less the same thing but have wound up arguing about it. I did this for an hour with a friend in a bar last Friday. It just happens because people want to "win."

I'm not too concerned with "winning", I'm more concerned with hearing the same nonchalant judgment of criminals via blanket statements that plagues critical thinking. As for what I mean, I'll be more explicit -- its a great exercise to be critical of both criminals and of criminal justice. I know many people that have their iPods filled with illegal content and that have millions of dollars worth of television ready to go when they travel. If you download things illegally from a torrent website, you're supporting an organized piracy ring that costs the entertainment industry quite a lot. Why not toss your own hat into the judgmental fire?

After four years of lectures and the same tiring debates, it gets old seeing people that still hold stalwart the War on Drugs and the judgment of others.

[UKsimon]

Its getting pretty cold, I'm surprised the gangsters could handle the cold.

They must be a different breed.

[Frozencat99]

As an addendum, its foolish to think that these gangsters are potentially less dangerous or are dismissive dangers compared to other gangs. It depends on the gang and the activity more than anything.

[woman-king]

but I find this "safe, peaceful, crime-free culture" narrative sometimes projected onto Korea by parts of its expat community misleading and just sort of silly.

Could you find a couple of examples where people on this forum have claimed that Korea is a "crime-free culture." It might be safer than many of our own countries in different ways but I have never heard/read anyone say it's crime free. If you could show me that, that'd be great but until then, I have to assume you are talking about fictional people. That's people you made up for the purposes of making your point.


As for the rest, I agree with frozencat99, woman-king and confusedsaffer. You all actually agree. Gangsters are probably involved in doing bad things in Korea. They mainly run protection rackets (not great if you have to pay profits from your business to criminal gangs) but if there's prostitution or even human trafficking involved, they'll likely be the ones doing it. Definitely not cool. You probably all agree that you may not know the internal or family pressures that gangsters find themselves under and so judging them as outright "evil" or "just plain bad" is too easy and over-simplifies a complicated issue. Maybe not though.

What I see here is another thread where people think more or less the same thing but have wound up arguing about it. I did this for an hour with a friend in a bar last Friday. It just happens because people want to "win."

Dude, please.  You are smart enough to understand the overall point I was making, and pointedly ignored it to get in a dig about what you think is a poor choice of wording--I think it's pretty clear I'm using some hyperbole here, not actually trying to quote real people.  Anyway, I think the overall discussion was about nonchalance towards gangs in Korea that slid into nonchalance towards criminals in general.  Those are different ideas, and I thought we managed to talk about our differing perspectives politely enough.  Some people enjoy debating ideas, online or in bars.  For some reason doing it online makes people uncomfortable, probably because you lose a lot of nuance when you take out face-to-face interaction, but unless someone is flaming or insulting, I don't see why doing it here is more inherently negative than doing it at the bar.

[flasyb]

but I find this "safe, peaceful, crime-free culture" narrative sometimes projected onto Korea by parts of its expat community misleading and just sort of silly.

Could you find a couple of examples where people on this forum have claimed that Korea is a "crime-free culture." It might be safer than many of our own countries in different ways but I have never heard/read anyone say it's crime free. If you could show me that, that'd be great but until then, I have to assume you are talking about fictional people. That's people you made up for the purposes of making your point.


As for the rest, I agree with frozencat99, woman-king and confusedsaffer. You all actually agree. Gangsters are probably involved in doing bad things in Korea. They mainly run protection rackets (not great if you have to pay profits from your business to criminal gangs) but if there's prostitution or even human trafficking involved, they'll likely be the ones doing it. Definitely not cool. You probably all agree that you may not know the internal or family pressures that gangsters find themselves under and so judging them as outright "evil" or "just plain bad" is too easy and over-simplifies a complicated issue. Maybe not though.

What I see here is another thread where people think more or less the same thing but have wound up arguing about it. I did this for an hour with a friend in a bar last Friday. It just happens because people want to "win."

Dude, please.  You are smart enough to understand the overall point I was making, and pointedly ignored it to get in a dig about what you think is a poor choice of wording--I think it's pretty clear I'm using some hyperbole here, not actually trying to quote real people.  Anyway, I think the overall discussion was about nonchalance towards gangs in Korea that slid into nonchalance towards criminals in general.  Those are different ideas, and I thought we managed to talk about our differing perspectives politely enough.  Some people enjoy debating ideas, online or in bars.  For some reason doing it online makes people uncomfortable, probably because you lose a lot of nuance when you take out face-to-face interaction, but unless someone is flaming or insulting, I don't see why doing it here is more inherently negative than doing it at the bar.

So it was hyperbole. I hate hyperbole in forums. It's used to make the other side seem absurd and doesn't add anything to the quality of someone's argument. But that's not something you understand because you obviously think that Korean gangs are among the most dangerous and evil in the world.

Stop. See what I did? Hyperbole. I didn't mean it, I was just exaggerating. It's not very helpful to debate like that and it will contribute to getting people riled up.

but I find this "safe, peaceful, crime-free culture" narrative sometimes projected onto Korea by parts of its expat community misleading and just sort of silly.

Could you find a couple of examples where people on this forum have claimed that Korea is a "crime-free culture." It might be safer than many of our own countries in different ways but I have never heard/read anyone say it's crime free. If you could show me that, that'd be great but until then, I have to assume you are talking about fictional people. That's people you made up for the purposes of making your point.


As for the rest, I agree with frozencat99, woman-king and confusedsaffer. You all actually agree. Gangsters are probably involved in doing bad things in Korea. They mainly run protection rackets (not great if you have to pay profits from your business to criminal gangs) but if there's prostitution or even human trafficking involved, they'll likely be the ones doing it. Definitely not cool. You probably all agree that you may not know the internal or family pressures that gangsters find themselves under and so judging them as outright "evil" or "just plain bad" is too easy and over-simplifies a complicated issue. Maybe not though.

What I see here is another thread where people think more or less the same thing but have wound up arguing about it. I did this for an hour with a friend in a bar last Friday. It just happens because people want to "win."

Ironically enough, I was debating the war on drugs for an hour on Friday night. Arguing that the policy of criminalisation didn't work at was absurd.

[woman-king]

but I find this "safe, peaceful, crime-free culture" narrative sometimes projected onto Korea by parts of its expat community misleading and just sort of silly.

Could you find a couple of examples where people on this forum have claimed that Korea is a "crime-free culture." It might be safer than many of our own countries in different ways but I have never heard/read anyone say it's crime free. If you could show me that, that'd be great but until then, I have to assume you are talking about fictional people. That's people you made up for the purposes of making your point.


As for the rest, I agree with frozencat99, woman-king and confusedsaffer. You all actually agree. Gangsters are probably involved in doing bad things in Korea. They mainly run protection rackets (not great if you have to pay profits from your business to criminal gangs) but if there's prostitution or even human trafficking involved, they'll likely be the ones doing it. Definitely not cool. You probably all agree that you may not know the internal or family pressures that gangsters find themselves under and so judging them as outright "evil" or "just plain bad" is too easy and over-simplifies a complicated issue. Maybe not though.

What I see here is another thread where people think more or less the same thing but have wound up arguing about it. I did this for an hour with a friend in a bar last Friday. It just happens because people want to "win."

Dude, please.  You are smart enough to understand the overall point I was making, and pointedly ignored it to get in a dig about what you think is a poor choice of wording--I think it's pretty clear I'm using some hyperbole here, not actually trying to quote real people.  Anyway, I think the overall discussion was about nonchalance towards gangs in Korea that slid into nonchalance towards criminals in general.  Those are different ideas, and I thought we managed to talk about our differing perspectives politely enough.  Some people enjoy debating ideas, online or in bars.  For some reason doing it online makes people uncomfortable, probably because you lose a lot of nuance when you take out face-to-face interaction, but unless someone is flaming or insulting, I don't see why doing it here is more inherently negative than doing it at the bar.

So it was hyperbole. I hate hyperbole in forums. It's used to make the other side seem absurd and doesn't add anything to the quality of someone's argument. But that's not something you understand because you obviously think that Korean gangs are among the most dangerous and evil in the world.

Stop. See what I did? Hyperbole. I didn't mean it, I was just exaggerating. It's not very helpful to debate like that and it will contribute to getting people riled up.

but I find this "safe, peaceful, crime-free culture" narrative sometimes projected onto Korea by parts of its expat community misleading and just sort of silly.

Could you find a couple of examples where people on this forum have claimed that Korea is a "crime-free culture." It might be safer than many of our own countries in different ways but I have never heard/read anyone say it's crime free. If you could show me that, that'd be great but until then, I have to assume you are talking about fictional people. That's people you made up for the purposes of making your point.


As for the rest, I agree with frozencat99, woman-king and confusedsaffer. You all actually agree. Gangsters are probably involved in doing bad things in Korea. They mainly run protection rackets (not great if you have to pay profits from your business to criminal gangs) but if there's prostitution or even human trafficking involved, they'll likely be the ones doing it. Definitely not cool. You probably all agree that you may not know the internal or family pressures that gangsters find themselves under and so judging them as outright "evil" or "just plain bad" is too easy and over-simplifies a complicated issue. Maybe not though.

What I see here is another thread where people think more or less the same thing but have wound up arguing about it. I did this for an hour with a friend in a bar last Friday. It just happens because people want to "win."

Ironically enough, I was debating the war on drugs for an hour on Friday night. Arguing that the policy of criminalisation didn't work at was absurd.

Well, flasyby, I don't know what to tell you other than I like hyperbole, and always have, and I always use quotes or otherwise try to make it blatant.  I'm taking about a general impression that a lot of experiences, discussions, random things I've read, etc. have created.  Which is of course incredibly subjective, that's a given.  I've never said my anecdotal experiences and feelings were comparable to information gathered more empirically...but that doesn't mean it's invaluable, either.  And I share it the way that makes sense to me.

[Frozencat99]

flasyb: Do you mean that criminalizing drugs works? Or that it doesn't? Don't want to misread you, the typo is throwing me off

[flasyb]

flasyb: Do you mean that criminalizing drugs works? Or that it doesn't? Don't want to misread you, the typo is throwing me off

Ooops! I meant "and was absurd."

[flasyb]

Well, flasyby, I don't know what to tell you other than I like hyperbole, and always have, and I always use quotes or otherwise try to make it blatant.  I'm taking about a general impression that a lot of experiences, discussions, random things I've read, etc. have created.  Which is of course incredibly subjective, that's a given.  I've never said my anecdotal experiences and feelings were comparable to information gathered more empirically...but that doesn't mean it's invaluable, either.  And I share it the way that makes sense to me.

It's certainly not invaluable, quite the opposite.  :D

Carry on using hyperbole by all means. I was just saying that in text form, it invites misinterpretation. Good luck with it though.

[MTBman]

Once a long time ago in Hondae, before it became the mega popular clubbing area it is today, I was walking back home late at night.  I turned a corner and there was a Korean guy kneeling in the middle of the street with his arms behind his back and another Korean guy was kicking him repeatedly in the head.  The guy who was kneeling just took it silently, always getting back up to the kneeling position, even though it must of really hurt.  He had that look of a mouse that was being played with by a cat.  That continued for as long at least as it took for me to walk quickly by them and then turn the corner and they disappeared in the distance as I walked home.   

[Peekay1982]

You can take a position that Korea is a pretty good country without having to defend everything about it...including their human traffickers.

Korean human traffickers very good. Nice, so kind - number one.