Gyopos Are Potential Traitors: Jon Huer

[Peekay1982]

One thing that does seem rather more "Korean" (although I could be entirely wrong) is that they seem to have little problem openly using other people, countries, or cultures for their own benefit. It's bold, and in some way honest, but so very much against what we view as "polite" it's still hard to accept.

I'm reminded of Michelle's Wie's father saying "the only American thing about Michelle is her passport". I've met more than a few Korean-Americans with this attitude. They want the benefits of a western passport and living in a western society when it suits them - but they're still permanently "Korean". Gim Yeon-a has lived in Canada for the past few years because she can get better training and her life in Korea is a living hell of media intrusion... but she's still as Korean as they come.

A more extremem version would be Muslims in the UK espousing ideological solidarity with Islamic states - while enjoying first-world health care, infrastructure and education. Another example would be E2 English teachers saving good money and enjoying a fun-filled life in Korea while constantly bitching about it...

Wie was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. She is American as they come.

Some teachers don't have a 'fun-filled life' as you put it. Some go through hell and therefore are entitled to 'bitch' about it.

That's my point - she's American but her father claims she isn't in order to cash in on Korean pride in her achievements.

I sense some hostility... I'm not suggesting that no-one has any problems in Korea. I'm suggesting that if you decide to come and work here you should invest some time and effort into adjusting to the culture. I hope that's okay.

[confusedsafferinkorea]

I sense some hostility... I'm not suggesting that no-one has any problems in Korea. I'm suggesting that if you decide to come and work here you should invest some time and effort into adjusting to the culture. I hope that's okay.

No hostility, just that some people (not necessarily you) think that because we have been employed here, we have to say 'yes Sir, no Sir,  three bags full, Sir' to everything that happens and we have no right to voice our discontent should  things not be done correctly.

[Peekay1982]

I sense some hostility... I'm not suggesting that no-one has any problems in Korea. I'm suggesting that if you decide to come and work here you should invest some time and effort into adjusting to the culture. I hope that's okay.

No hostility, just that some people (not necessarily you) think that because we have been employed here, we have to say 'yes Sir, no Sir,  three bags full, Sir' to everything that happens and we have no right to voice our discontent should  things not be done correctly.

Definitely not me. I constantly complain about things in Korea - online, at work and to my friends.

[peasgoodnonsuch]

Just to add in here, the comparison of E-2 teachers bitching about Korea isn't really an apt comparison to Gyopos or immigrants to western nations maintaining allegiance to their "home country". E-2 teachers are temporary residents working in Korea for a limited time. No one is under any illusions that they would or that they should maintain any sort of loyalty to Korea while they're here. Now, if you wanted to compare someone on an F level visa that's here long term, it would be a bit more plausible...

[Peekay1982]

Just to add in here, the comparison of E-2 teachers bitching about Korea isn't really an apt comparison to Gyopos or immigrants to western nations maintaining allegiance to their "home country". E-2 teachers are temporary residents working in Korea for a limited time. No one is under any illusions that they would or that they should maintain any sort of loyalty to Korea while they're here. Now, if you wanted to compare someone on an F level visa that's here long term, it would be a bit more plausible...

I am under that illusion; I think learning basic Korean and having some sort of respect for Korean social mores is a minimum which should be expected of anyone, even Broseph McChugmeister who's only here for a year to save up/travel/pay off debt etc. A lot of E2s can't even muster that up, though.

You're broadly right though, E2s aren't really a valid comparison to people emigrating permanently to another country. How about this one: my (UK citizen) aunt and uncle have been living in Tenerife for over ten years, speak about five words of Spanish and know about two Spanish people. Or my friend whose mum only speaks Urdu despite having lived in Manchester for over 30 years...

[peasgoodnonsuch]

I think we have a misunderstanding of semantics. Loyalty and cultural sensitivity and manners are two different things. Most certainly, anyone who is a guest in another country should make an effort to get along. You know, "when in Rome" etc. But that is very different from feeling allegiance. loyalty or duty in the patriotic or political sense. It is that which is brought into question by the original article. And that's why I sort of picked on your example.

The latter ones are definitely a better comparison, although you're still dealing with the difference of loyalty to a political state vs. cultural integration. You're friend's Urdu-speaking mum may not have made the effort to culturally integrate but it's possible (a stretch, but still possible!) that she's just as loyal the UK as a political state, as any native-born Brit.

[Peekay1982]

I think we have a misunderstanding of semantics. Loyalty and cultural sensitivity and manners are two different things. Most certainly, anyone who is a guest in another country should make an effort to get along. You know, "when in Rome" etc. But that is very different from feeling allegiance. loyalty or duty in the patriotic or political sense. It is that which is brought into question by the original article. And that's why I sort of picked on your example.

The latter ones are definitely a better comparison, although you're still dealing with the difference of loyalty to a political state vs. cultural integration. You're friend's Urdu-speaking mum may not have made the effort to culturally integrate but it's possible (a stretch, but still possible!) that she's just as loyal the UK as a political state, as any native-born Brit.

Good point - there's no definite line when a short-term working stay turns into something more permanent. I'm sure someone on an E2 who's been here eight years still feels like a visitor without any loyalty or obligations towards Korea. I think the point is, whoever you are and wherever you go there will be pockets of people coming from different countries or cultures who don't have any interest in integration into their new home - or loyalty to it.