A Disgusted Canadian

[Cereal]

Pardon my stupid question but how to most other Canadians relate to people from Quebec?  In general, do you treat them like brothers or as a red headed step child, rhetorically speaking of course.  Do many other Canadians in other territories learn French?  Can you travel through Quebec with little or no knowledge of  the French language?  Do most people there know English?

I have a few Canadian friends but this topic has never came up before so I am curious.

This are very good questions. Once you get much west of Ottawa, the French really starts to peter out as a language and its usefulness - outside of federal government jobs that is.

In the province of Quebec, Montreal is pretty much the only place where one could comfortably live with little or no French, especially the West Island.

As far as I am aware, all students must learn French for at least part of their schooling. In Quebec it is mandatory in every grade; passing it is also mandatory to progress.

Out West - I lived in Alberta for 3 years - French is not all liked. I was speaking French one day and was told to stop by my boss. I believe the way he put it was, "We don't speak that French shit out here."

Oddly, I have discriminated against in Quebec because my French wasn't good enough (I speak a Parisien French) and I have been discriminated against in the West (English Canada) for being a Frog.

It has been an uneasy relationship for a long time but hopefully it is getting better as the Separatiste movement seems to be slowing down.

As a bi-lingual Quebecer, I side with the Nationalists. Why should federal tax dollars be used to support people who want to divide Canada?

[ACofOntario]

Pardon my stupid question but how to most other Canadians relate to people from Quebec?  In general, do you treat them like brothers or as a red headed step child, rhetorically speaking of course.  Do many other Canadians in other territories learn French?  Can you travel through Quebec with little or no knowledge of  the French language?  Do most people there know English?

I have a few Canadian friends but this topic has never came up before so I am curious.

This are very good questions. Once you get much west of Ottawa, the French really starts to peter out as a language and its usefulness - outside of federal government jobs that is.

In the province of Quebec, Montreal is pretty much the only place where one could comfortably live with little or no French, especially the West Island.

As far as I am aware, all students must learn French for at least part of their schooling. In Quebec it is mandatory in every grade; passing it is also mandatory to progress.

Out West - I lived in Alberta for 3 years - French is not all liked. I was speaking French one day and was told to stop by my boss. I believe the way he put it was, "We don't speak that French shit out here."

Oddly, I have discriminated against in Quebec because my French wasn't good enough (I speak a Parisien French) and I have been discriminated against in the West (English Canada) for being a Frog.

It has been an uneasy relationship for a long time but hopefully it is getting better as the Separatiste movement seems to be slowing down.

As a bi-lingual Quebecer, I side with the Nationalists. Why should federal tax dollars be used to support people who want to divide Canada?

Lol... if your French was made fun of, I doubt it was because it was "Parisian."  Unless of course, you grew up in Paris and you use words like "marrant" and have a really distinct way of articulating.

I know a lot of "fluent" french speakers who claim to have a "Parisian French" accent... which is a pretentious way to cover up for a heavy anglophone accent, which sounds nothing like Parisian French....

I guess I'm one of the **cks who made fun of your French in Quebec. Sorry.

[sejongthefabulous]

On another note, everything cultural that stems out of Canada seems to be somehow related to the French... just sayin

Cheers for proving the other guys points that Quebecois seem to overvalue themselves....just saying
Some call Toronto people arrogant for thinking the country revolves around Toronto. Some call the people from Vancouver arrogant for thinking Vancouver is the best city to live in.

Also regarding Non-Quebecois French Canadians, just every province (except Newfoundland) has more than 10%. But I guess to real Quebecois these people aren't so important. It is interesting to note that the French don't really like Quebecers. It's not just a language thing, it really is a cultural thing.

[Cereal]

Pardon my stupid question but how to most other Canadians relate to people from Quebec?  In general, do you treat them like brothers or as a red headed step child, rhetorically speaking of course.  Do many other Canadians in other territories learn French?  Can you travel through Quebec with little or no knowledge of  the French language?  Do most people there know English?

I have a few Canadian friends but this topic has never came up before so I am curious.

This are very good questions. Once you get much west of Ottawa, the French really starts to peter out as a language and its usefulness - outside of federal government jobs that is.

In the province of Quebec, Montreal is pretty much the only place where one could comfortably live with little or no French, especially the West Island.

As far as I am aware, all students must learn French for at least part of their schooling. In Quebec it is mandatory in every grade; passing it is also mandatory to progress.

Out West - I lived in Alberta for 3 years - French is not all liked. I was speaking French one day and was told to stop by my boss. I believe the way he put it was, "We don't speak that French shit out here."

Oddly, I have discriminated against in Quebec because my French wasn't good enough (I speak a Parisien French) and I have been discriminated against in the West (English Canada) for being a Frog.

It has been an uneasy relationship for a long time but hopefully it is getting better as the Separatiste movement seems to be slowing down.

As a bi-lingual Quebecer, I side with the Nationalists. Why should federal tax dollars be used to support people who want to divide Canada?

Lol... if your French was made fun of, I doubt it was because it was "Parisian."  Unless of course, you grew up in Paris and you use words like "marrant" and have a really distinct way of articulating.

I know a lot of "fluent" french speakers who claim to have a "Parisian French" accent... which is a pretentious way to cover up for a heavy anglophone accent, which sounds nothing like Parisian French....

I guess I'm one of the **cks who made fun of your French in Quebec. Sorry.

I understand what you're saying and you are correct in your assessment from your point of view. However, I grew up in Germany and attended elementary school years 1-6 in French. Our teachers were all from France and with the exception of our grade 5 teacher, who was from Marseille (we took a field trip to her city for a week once), the rest were Parisiens (where we took a field trip every year).

Living in Laos, I worked as the Communications Director for a media company owned by France Frenchmen. With the exception of two receptionists (Lao), I was the only non-France employee. I received many compliments on my French. They were usually in the form of, "It's nice to hear a Canadian who can actually speak French!"

From my experience most France folks would rather speak in English to a Quebecer rather than hear their beautiful language bastardized. Something I was often told.

Now, New Brunswick French, that is impossible to understand!

[kyndo]

Now, New Brunswick French, that is impossible to understand!

You should hear BC French lol.

I learned French in school, and unlike most people from the west coast, I actually made use of it when went to Montreal for a summer. While my French teachers were all Parisian, the reason most people had difficulty understanding me there was that my French was just plain crap.
I actually didn't receive much of the language angst people kept telling me I would experience, and had a genuinely rockin' time in Quebec.
Likewise, when I went on holidays in France, I could make myself understood, and people were happy that I was trying (and it definitely helped that I was carrying around a non-Anglophone passport ).

[Yu_Bumsuk]

Now, New Brunswick French, that is impossible to understand!

You should hear BC French lol.

I learned French in school, and unlike most people from the west coast, I actually made use of it when went to Montreal for a summer. While my French teachers were all Parisian, the reason most people had difficulty understanding me there was that my French was just plain crap.
I actually didn't receive much of the language angst people kept telling me I would experience, and had a genuinely rockin' time in Quebec.
Likewise, when I went on holidays in France, I could make myself understood, and people were happy that I was trying (and it definitely helped that I was carrying around a non-Anglophone passport ).

He has heard BC French - mine. I had a similar experience when I lived in Montreal except I flunked out of French at secondary school. I'm sure that now I'd do better than almost anyone from my grade.

[Cereal]

Now, New Brunswick French, that is impossible to understand!

You should hear BC French lol.

I learned French in school, and unlike most people from the west coast, I actually made use of it when went to Montreal for a summer. While my French teachers were all Parisian, the reason most people had difficulty understanding me there was that my French was just plain crap.
I actually didn't receive much of the language angst people kept telling me I would experience, and had a genuinely rockin' time in Quebec.
Likewise, when I went on holidays in France, I could make myself understood, and people were happy that I was trying (and it definitely helped that I was carrying around a non-Anglophone passport ).

He has heard BC French - mine. I had a similar experience when I lived in Montreal except I flunked out of French at secondary school. I'm sure that now I'd do better than almost anyone from my grade.

Aawwwwwww Yu_Bumsuk, and here I thought you'd picked up your French from multiple forays into the dark depths of the SuperSex on Ste. Catharines St.

 

[Davox]

Pardon my stupid question but how to most other Canadians relate to people from Quebec?  In general, do you treat them like brothers or as a red headed step child, rhetorically speaking of course.  Do many other Canadians in other territories learn French?  Can you travel through Quebec with little or no knowledge of  the French language?  Do most people there know English?

I have a few Canadian friends but this topic has never came up before so I am curious.

Here's the thing about Quebec.   No one outside of Quebec actually cares.  Oh, we can, in a general way, like them (I generally do) or hate them or envy them or whatever, but ultimately whatever Quebec does or does not do affects very few of us outside of Quebec in any real way.  So every once in a while some stupid politician or public figure in Quebec will say or do something stupid (because politicians and public figures everywhere are constantly doing stupid things) and it'll make the news because they'll have been slagging off the whole rest of the country instead of just the next province/city over like everyone else, and people will talk about it, but a week later nothing in our lives will have changed and none of it will matter, and everyone will go back to forgetting that everyone outside of their own province exists. 

The only people who are affected dis-proportionally by Quebec are Federal (national) government politicians and  Federal employees.  Because they have to speak French, even if there's no reason for them to speak French (although in fairness, there often is a good reason for them to know French, but whatever).  That's about it.

[Yu_Bumsuk]

Pardon my stupid question but how to most other Canadians relate to people from Quebec?  In general, do you treat them like brothers or as a red headed step child, rhetorically speaking of course.  Do many other Canadians in other territories learn French?  Can you travel through Quebec with little or no knowledge of  the French language?  Do most people there know English?

I have a few Canadian friends but this topic has never came up before so I am curious.

Here's the thing about Quebec.   No one outside of Quebec actually cares.  Oh, we can, in a general way, like them (I generally do) or hate them or envy them or whatever, but ultimately whatever Quebec does or does not do affects very few of us outside of Quebec in any real way.  So every once in a while some stupid politician or public figure in Quebec will say or do something stupid (because politicians and public figures everywhere are constantly doing stupid things) and it'll make the news because they'll have been slagging off the whole rest of the country instead of just the next province/city over like everyone else, and people will talk about it, but a week later nothing in our lives will have changed and none of it will matter, and everyone will go back to forgetting that everyone outside of their own province exists. 

The only people who are affected dis-proportionally by Quebec are Federal (national) government politicians and  Federal employees.  Because they have to speak French, even if there's no reason for them to speak French (although in fairness, there often is a good reason for them to know French, but whatever).  That's about it.

They matter a lot more when they make up the prime minister and half the cabinet.

[Davox]

Pardon my stupid question but how to most other Canadians relate to people from Quebec?  In general, do you treat them like brothers or as a red headed step child, rhetorically speaking of course.  Do many other Canadians in other territories learn French?  Can you travel through Quebec with little or no knowledge of  the French language?  Do most people there know English?

I have a few Canadian friends but this topic has never came up before so I am curious.

Here's the thing about Quebec.   No one outside of Quebec actually cares.  Oh, we can, in a general way, like them (I generally do) or hate them or envy them or whatever, but ultimately whatever Quebec does or does not do affects very few of us outside of Quebec in any real way.  So every once in a while some stupid politician or public figure in Quebec will say or do something stupid (because politicians and public figures everywhere are constantly doing stupid things) and it'll make the news because they'll have been slagging off the whole rest of the country instead of just the next province/city over like everyone else, and people will talk about it, but a week later nothing in our lives will have changed and none of it will matter, and everyone will go back to forgetting that everyone outside of their own province exists. 

The only people who are affected dis-proportionally by Quebec are Federal (national) government politicians and  Federal employees.  Because they have to speak French, even if there's no reason for them to speak French (although in fairness, there often is a good reason for them to know French, but whatever).  That's about it.

They matter a lot more when they make up the prime minister and half the cabinet.

Any region matters as much as the ruling party feels they need more, or are starting to lose votes from, said region.  Cabinet ministers have steadily mattered less and less since Chrétien.  Or even before, really.  And PM's serve themselves and their party, not an area.  We're in the Harper era now, if it weren't for tradition and inertia, I'd be surprised the positions still exist.  I guess I'm saying you're more of an optimist than I.

[english_teacha84]

Pardon my stupid question but how to most other Canadians relate to people from Quebec?  In general, do you treat them like brothers or as a red headed step child, rhetorically speaking of course.  Do many other Canadians in other territories learn French?  Can you travel through Quebec with little or no knowledge of  the French language?  Do most people there know English?

I have a few Canadian friends but this topic has never came up before so I am curious.

I'm from Toronto, Ontario and most of my friends and I (mid 20's) don't really care for the political motives of our neighbors to the east. I'd say their feelings towards their existence is fairly neutral amongst most other Canadians. There's no hate but there's no special love for them either lol. In Ontario it's mandatory to learn French from grade 3-9 in public schools (at least it was for me). After that it becomes optional. There are also French immersion schools that you can attend that'll get you the same requirements as you would in a regular public school. Most of the people in Quebec are able to speak English and it has never been a problem for me when I visited Montreal/Quebec. Barely have to break out my rusty Quebecois French too hehe.

This is typical... I think most people from Toronto don't really care what goes on in the rest of Canada... Quebec or otherwise.
There is a large community of francophones in Ontario (40% speak both English and French), and New Brunswick is the only official bilingual province in Canada. Many maritimers speak French and there are also pockets of francophone speakers around Winnipeg, in Saskatchewan and some parts of Alberta.

The French/English debate has been going on since the beginning of colonization in Canada, and is still a very sensitive issue, especially for Quebecers. For some reason the fact that they battle for issues such as French services in public sectors and government services is threatening to unilingual English Canadians - in fact, you have to be bilingual to hold a government position in Canada - they feel French people are 'stealing' jobs. The separatist movement in Quebec took a nosedive thanks to the NDP winning tonsn of seats in Quebec in the last federal election, which may prompt some nationalist movements to flare up these types of debates again.

For the most part, I think :
- Most of the English West and Toronto don't care much about what goes on in Quebec, unless of course French people start to try taking over their jobs.
- The French communities in Ontario and the Maritimes follow the issue more closely since, even though they are a minority in their respective provinces and their linguistic situation is much different from Quebec's, they are all active in not only protecting their French culture and heritage, but also actively engaging in it. In that sense, they have similar interests.

The ongoing tensions are a result of years of two countries battling to gain control of the same territory. Throw in the ongoing fight of the Aboriginal people to regain power over their land and people, not to mention countless Immigrants from dozens of different countries, things become hard to manage. Think about it! It has to be quite the challenge for the government!

Bottom line though, I feel that Canadians, if only because of the fact that they are not Americans, should be more supportive of minorities, should it be linguistic, cultural, or what have you, to preserve the mosaic that currently defines our country. Rants directed at Quebecers or other Canadiens who are not part of the English White majority will only contribute to bringing us closer to the dreaded American Melting Pot. Let's celebrate diversity!

[english_teacha84]

Pardon my stupid question but how to most other Canadians relate to people from Quebec?  In general, do you treat them like brothers or as a red headed step child, rhetorically speaking of course.  Do many other Canadians in other territories learn French?  Can you travel through Quebec with little or no knowledge of  the French language?  Do most people there know English?

I have a few Canadian friends but this topic has never came up before so I am curious.

Here's the thing about Quebec.   No one outside of Quebec actually cares.  Oh, we can, in a general way, like them (I generally do) or hate them or envy them or whatever, but ultimately whatever Quebec does or does not do affects very few of us outside of Quebec in any real way.  So every once in a while some stupid politician or public figure in Quebec will say or do something stupid (because politicians and public figures everywhere are constantly doing stupid things) and it'll make the news because they'll have been slagging off the whole rest of the country instead of just the next province/city over like everyone else, and people will talk about it, but a week later nothing in our lives will have changed and none of it will matter, and everyone will go back to forgetting that everyone outside of their own province exists. 

The only people who are affected dis-proportionally by Quebec are Federal (national) government politicians and  Federal employees.  Because they have to speak French, even if there's no reason for them to speak French (although in fairness, there often is a good reason for them to know French, but whatever).  That's about it.

This isn't true. The Francophone minorities outside of Quebec are much affected. If Quebec becomes Anglicized, the rest of Canadian French doesn't stand a chance.

[english_teacha84]

Pardon my stupid question but how to most other Canadians relate to people from Quebec?  In general, do you treat them like brothers or as a red headed step child, rhetorically speaking of course.  Do many other Canadians in other territories learn French?  Can you travel through Quebec with little or no knowledge of  the French language?  Do most people there know English?

I have a few Canadian friends but this topic has never came up before so I am curious.

This are very good questions. Once you get much west of Ottawa, the French really starts to peter out as a language and its usefulness - outside of federal government jobs that is.

In the province of Quebec, Montreal is pretty much the only place where one could comfortably live with little or no French, especially the West Island.

As far as I am aware, all students must learn French for at least part of their schooling. In Quebec it is mandatory in every grade; passing it is also mandatory to progress.

Out West - I lived in Alberta for 3 years - French is not all liked. I was speaking French one day and was told to stop by my boss. I believe the way he put it was, "We don't speak that French shit out here."

Oddly, I have discriminated against in Quebec because my French wasn't good enough (I speak a Parisien French) and I have been discriminated against in the West (English Canada) for being a Frog.

It has been an uneasy relationship for a long time but hopefully it is getting better as the Separatiste movement seems to be slowing down.

As a bi-lingual Quebecer, I side with the Nationalists. Why should federal tax dollars be used to support people who want to divide Canada?

So I'm French Canadian... not from Quebec, and I also lived in Alberta for 3 years, visited Quebec, and have never experience such things you are talking about.
- Albertans were indifferent, if anything envious, of my French speaking...
- Quebecers knew that I wasn't Quebecer, but didnt' care...
Hmmm... 'discriminated against'? Really? I think this might just be a matter of perspective.

[kyndo]

I would agree that most of English speaking Canada doesn't pay much attention to Quebec, though it boggles the mind that this is true. The whole "Seperatiste" issue will have dramatic consequences for everybody in Canada if it every goes through (as, from my understanding, Quebec will not take responsibility for any part of the Canadian debt, which will mean others will need to pick it up).
   Also, like it or not, French Canada is one of the most important things that really prevents us from being indistinguishable from the States (except of course for -- *engage troll mode* -- our superior medicare, social welfare system, school system, and international reputation ... ...) 

But seriously, while having everything in 2 languages on my favourite cereal boxes can make things appear crowded and cluttered, I would be very sad to see Quebec go.

[LemonWater]

   Also, like it or not, French Canada is one of the most important things that really prevents us from being indistinguishable from the States (except of course for -- *engage troll mode* -- our superior medicare, social welfare system, school system, and international reputation ... ...) 

With the way the government is being run, you can say good bye to social welfare soon. Medicare is too close to heart to cut out, but Harper has long wanted a two teir system.  And our reputation is not what it used to be. That's one thing I have learned after being away from home. We are famous as significant polluters and for blindly following US foreign policy (scince the Harper government took over).  On this weeks agenda, they will eliminate the gun registry and build more prisons. . . a scary way of governing.

[ACofOntario]

I understand what you're saying and you are correct in your assessment from your point of view. However, I grew up in Germany and attended elementary school years 1-6 in French. Our teachers were all from France and with the exception of our grade 5 teacher, who was from Marseille (we took a field trip to her city for a week once), the rest were Parisiens (where we took a field trip every year).

Living in Laos, I worked as the Communications Director for a media company owned by France Frenchmen. With the exception of two receptionists (Lao), I was the only non-France employee. I received many compliments on my French. They were usually in the form of, "It's nice to hear a Canadian who can actually speak French!"

From my experience most France folks would rather speak in English to a Quebecer rather than hear their beautiful language bastardized. Something I was often told.

Now, New Brunswick French, that is impossible to understand!

WOw, that's a rather peculiar path to learning French. You must have an accent I've never heard before... I usually like accents, but for some reason I have this uncontrollable aversion to hearing French spoken by an anglophone who never learned how to pronounce properly. 

Quebecers pronounce and use French differently than they do in France, for sure... this always happens when a language migrates.  Over the years it has formed into its own dialect, with a distinct slang, especially in towns outside of Montreal where somehow, they have kept their French closer to that of Paris'.  Quebecers are hard to understand a lot of the time because they speak so passionately and quickly... they dropped the "beauty" from fluid and articulate French and injected it with feeling and wit.... it is a dialect, with its own slang and spirit... I would compare Quebec French with Parisian French the same way I compare British English with American/Canadian English.  The only difference is that around 330 million people speak this form of English and only around 7 million people live in Quebec.

Another interesting version of French is in Africa.  I'd love to go to Morocco just to hear how people speak there.

[Davox]

Pardon my stupid question but how to most other Canadians relate to people from Quebec?  In general, do you treat them like brothers or as a red headed step child, rhetorically speaking of course.  Do many other Canadians in other territories learn French?  Can you travel through Quebec with little or no knowledge of  the French language?  Do most people there know English?

I have a few Canadian friends but this topic has never came up before so I am curious.

Here's the thing about Quebec.   No one outside of Quebec actually cares.  Oh, we can, in a general way, like them (I generally do) or hate them or envy them or whatever, but ultimately whatever Quebec does or does not do affects very few of us outside of Quebec in any real way.  So every once in a while some stupid politician or public figure in Quebec will say or do something stupid (because politicians and public figures everywhere are constantly doing stupid things) and it'll make the news because they'll have been slagging off the whole rest of the country instead of just the next province/city over like everyone else, and people will talk about it, but a week later nothing in our lives will have changed and none of it will matter, and everyone will go back to forgetting that everyone outside of their own province exists. 

The only people who are affected dis-proportionally by Quebec are Federal (national) government politicians and  Federal employees.  Because they have to speak French, even if there's no reason for them to speak French (although in fairness, there often is a good reason for them to know French, but whatever).  That's about it.

This isn't true. The Francophone minorities outside of Quebec are much affected. If Quebec becomes Anglicized, the rest of Canadian French doesn't stand a chance.

I can only speak of what I know and where I've lived, and I can say that I'm pretty sure French will do just fine in both Ontario and New Brunswick.  They may or may not speak a kind of French that outsiders like (especially in NB), but then  according to France, neither does Quebec.

Also, anyone who thinks that Quebec is actually going to become anglicized anytime soon is dreaming.  As far as I can tell, when it comes to holding on to culture they're doing better than most others in Canada and in the world.

[ACofOntario]

Pardon my stupid question but how to most other Canadians relate to people from Quebec?  In general, do you treat them like brothers or as a red headed step child, rhetorically speaking of course.  Do many other Canadians in other territories learn French?  Can you travel through Quebec with little or no knowledge of  the French language?  Do most people there know English?

I have a few Canadian friends but this topic has never came up before so I am curious.

Here's the thing about Quebec.   No one outside of Quebec actually cares.  Oh, we can, in a general way, like them (I generally do) or hate them or envy them or whatever, but ultimately whatever Quebec does or does not do affects very few of us outside of Quebec in any real way.  So every once in a while some stupid politician or public figure in Quebec will say or do something stupid (because politicians and public figures everywhere are constantly doing stupid things) and it'll make the news because they'll have been slagging off the whole rest of the country instead of just the next province/city over like everyone else, and people will talk about it, but a week later nothing in our lives will have changed and none of it will matter, and everyone will go back to forgetting that everyone outside of their own province exists. 

The only people who are affected dis-proportionally by Quebec are Federal (national) government politicians and  Federal employees.  Because they have to speak French, even if there's no reason for them to speak French (although in fairness, there often is a good reason for them to know French, but whatever).  That's about it.

This isn't true. The Francophone minorities outside of Quebec are much affected. If Quebec becomes Anglicized, the rest of Canadian French doesn't stand a chance.

I can only speak of what I know and where I've lived, and I can say that I'm pretty sure French will do just fine in both Ontario and New Brunswick.  They may or may not speak a kind of French that outsiders like (especially in NB), but then  according to France, neither does Quebec.

Also, anyone who thinks that Quebec is actually going to become anglicized anytime soon is dreaming.  As far as I can tell, when it comes to holding on to culture they're doing better than most others in Canada and in the world.

I agree, there are no signs that French culture or language in Quebec has a risk of becoming anglicized.  I have dozens of relatives there, and their English skills are mediocre at best. Many Koreans I know have better English skills than my family members... and the next generation will likely follow suit.  French is deeply ingrained in Canadian culture and history, and no new legislation will ever change that.

The bigger picture though, might be different. French as a global language has been on a decline for the last century or so, but only because it used to be the international language before English.  The incentive to learn French around the world is down to specialized linguists and people who want to sound cool sitting around cafes.