Author Topic: Korean survey results:Students Prefer Korean English Teachers to Native Speakers  (Read 1207 times)

Offline Schellib39

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I remember seeing a thread here on Waygook a while back about a survey conducted to see what parents thought of NET's here in Korea.  Just saw this article online and thought it was interesting.  Interesting to see the students replies as well.  I was surprised at the number of people they surveyed, as many surveys you see conducted here have a sample size of under a thousand people.  This one included 28,761 students, 11,980 parents, 2,406 Korean English teachers, and 595 native English-speaking teaching assistants at 1,282 primary and secondary schools in Seoul. 

Anyways what does everyone think of the results.

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/11/30/2011113000912.html

Offline Jeff619

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What I find interesting is that it says both parents and students would prefer a Korean teacher but are more satisfied with the lessons taught by NETs.  I guess they are happy with our work but they still don't really want foreigners here.

Offline Bump

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I'm not surprised....especially in cases where NETs are teaching really low level English speakers (which seems to apply to a majority of us).  I mean it makes sense that students would prefer being taught by someone they can actually understand as opposed to someone who may as well be speaking in tongues.  Still, I think we serve a useful purpose in some cases. 

Offline cinamon

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Well it's understandable.  As a student, I would prefer learning from someone I can communicate with too.

Offline Schellib39

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I mean it makes sense that students would prefer being taught by someone they can actually understand as opposed to someone who may as well be speaking in tongues.  Still, I think we serve a useful purpose in some cases.

I would agree with this.  Of course having someone who can explain something to you in your native language is nice, but not when the entire class in conducted in Korean and not in English (except for a few phrases or sentences throughout the class).  When learning any language, I believe learning in that language is the best way to learn.  It may be difficult and frustrating at times but in the end it will help you to better understand and speak the language better.

Any Korean classes I have taken here have been for the most part conducted all in Korean (even in the beginning when learning the alphabet), though it was very frustrating in the beginning, I look back and I'm happy about them speaking in Korean from the beginning.  It made me underline or write things down I din't understand so after class I can look them up or clarify it with a co-teacher at school.  I think that many students who are forced to learn English  instead of doing so because they want to would be unlikely to take this approach though.

Offline ironopolis

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Surveys like this are, in reality, pretty meaningless because you can get just about any result you want, depending on how you phrase the questions and the range of possible answers you offer. Bear in mind also that of the 28,000 kids, an enormous percentage will have just quickly ticked one of the 5 boxes per question without much, if any, attention paid to what the question actually was. Many will have just seen what their friends ticked and done the same. I mean, let's face it, many adults respond exactly like this when a survey is thrust in front of them to be filled out.

IMO, the key line in this article is this

Quote
The survey released Sunday by the Seoul Metropolitan Office of Education

Why? SMOE is the government body that's presently cutting back severely on NETs. It's not a popular move amongst parents at all and they need to drum up some public support for it from somewhere. Ah, here we are - a survey showing that everyone thinks our cutting back on NETs is what they want to see, how convenient  ;D
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 12:46:40 pm by ironopolis »

Offline IslandGook

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Korean students prefer to be taught English by Korean teachers with outstanding English conversation and teaching skills

That's awesome.  I'd probably prefer that as an option for the Koreans too, although it would cost me a job.  The problem is that there's a shortage of Korean teachers who actually have "outstanding English conversation and teaching skills."

My CoTs are great in a lot of ways, but their English ability is not outstanding.  Good for Korea?  Absolutely.  Good for any English-speaking environment?  No.

Offline Sprite06

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I'm not surprised....especially in cases where NETs are teaching really low level English speakers (which seems to apply to a majority of us).  I mean it makes sense that students would prefer being taught by someone they can actually understand as opposed to someone who may as well be speaking in tongues.  Still, I think we serve a useful purpose in some cases.

I'd say this is spot on.

Offline confusedsafferinkorea

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Of course they prefer Korean teachers, then they don't have to speak English. As I said in another post about this, our Grade 3 book (Elementary) has no English in it besides the title of each chapter. Are they being taught English? No. Absolutely pointless and a waste of time and money.

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Offline Yu_Bumsuk

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As I keep repeating, if the NEAT goes ahead, views will really change, especially at the HS level. Also, note that they want 'capable' KETs. Someone who doesn't know the difference between fun and funny doesn't really fit this label.


Offline Jrong

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Of course they prefer Korean teachers, then they don't have to speak English. As I said in another post about this, our Grade 3 book (Elementary) has no English in it besides the title of each chapter. Are they being taught English? No. Absolutely pointless and a waste of time and money.
Ha ha...my main problem with the Grade 3 book are those d@#$ stories. They (G3 book co.) take a story completely out of it's context by changing it. I bet they think they're really "creative" when in reality they just destroyed the meaning of those stories and replaced it with nothingness.

Anyways, I agree. Pointless and waste of money when we're teaching out of those useless books.
____   ____   __   __   ____   ____!

Offline Seoulian

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It's odd how this survey is being construed and interpreted. On the Korea Herald website, the survey basically says there is only a small difference in how many students participate in English classes.

34% interact with KET's
31% interact with NET's

81% participate in KET's class
76% in NET's class

"According to the survey, students, parents and teachers believe that foreign assistant teachers contribute to improving students’ English proficiency and confidence, but the ability of Korean teachers should be strengthened by rigorous training if they are to substitute foreign teachers. "

The average net has 764 students. How is someone supposed to interact with every single student?

http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20111127000345

Offline kps1

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So we're better teachers, but not the better choice. Meh, makes sense. If we could all speak fluent Korean and there were enough foreigns around then maybe we wouldnt be called foreign

Offline Ben-Ja-Meen

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I was surprised at the number of people they surveyed, as many surveys you see conducted here have a sample size of under a thousand people.  This one included 28,761 students, 11,980 parents, 2,406 Korean English teachers, and 595 native English-speaking teaching assistants at 1,282 primary and secondary schools in Seoul. 

I'm a Seoul NET... I didn't get a survey, did you get a survey?? ::)

How many public school NETS do you suppose there are in Seoul?  Just curious...

Offline ArmoredButterfly

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When I was in university, I had Spanish 2 with a teacher who was bilingual and Spanish 3 with a foreign teacher who only spoke Spanish. If asked on a survey which I preferred, I would definitely say the bilingual teacher purely because it was less stressful to not have to communicate in Spanish all the time. But I learned MUCH much more in Spanish 3.

I'd say 90% of the Spanish I remember today was from the foreign teachers class. I remember tons and tons of things I learned, mostly from days when I was horribly embarrassed and desperately trying to figure out what he was asking me and how to respond to him. Oh God did I hate that class (I remember crying during it once out of frustration) but not using your native language is definitely the best way to learn.

I don't blame the kids one bit for saying they would rather have someone who speaks both Korean and English. It's much easier to breeze through and less embarrassing for them. But it's not going to help them learn anything in the long run. I know today many of the kids don't care about English except as a way to pass tests, but sooner or later  they are going to run into a foreigner who will speak English to them, and only then will they realize that there aren't any multiple choice answers.

Offline Yu_Bumsuk

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When I was in university, I had Spanish 2 with a teacher who was bilingual and Spanish 3 with a foreign teacher who only spoke Spanish. If asked on a survey which I preferred, I would definitely say the bilingual teacher purely because it was less stressful to not have to communicate in Spanish all the time. But I learned MUCH much more in Spanish 3.

I'd say 90% of the Spanish I remember today was from the foreign teachers class. I remember tons and tons of things I learned, mostly from days when I was horribly embarrassed and desperately trying to figure out what he was asking me and how to respond to him. Oh God did I hate that class (I remember crying during it once out of frustration) but not using your native language is definitely the best way to learn.

I don't blame the kids one bit for saying they would rather have someone who speaks both Korean and English. It's much easier to breeze through and less embarrassing for them. But it's not going to help them learn anything in the long run. I know today many of the kids don't care about English except as a way to pass tests, but sooner or later  they are going to run into a foreigner who will speak English to them, and only then will they realize that there aren't any multiple choice answers.

This is so accurate that I'd suggest you send this as a short letter to the Korea Herald or Times.

It would be very easy to test. Take all of the NET positions for a particular city or region. Set them up as CTs for every English class students get at half of all academic HSs, and in the other half put only KETs and special Korean 'conversation' teachers. Let the schools assess students however they like. My guess is that even if the FTs were mostly backpackers here for a year the former group would do much better. If they could get FTs who actually had some TEFL experience the results would be drastic.


Offline IslandGook

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So we're better teachers, but not the better choice. Meh, makes sense. If we could all speak fluent Korean and there were enough foreigns around then maybe we wouldnt be called foreign

lol, gyopos who speak perfect Korean are still foreign to natives here.  Ethnically different foreigners are never going to not be called foreign here.

Offline mhawha511

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I think koreans feel comfortable with the korean teacher. Because they understand more koreans. But with a type of co-teaching , students learn effetively. So, I think NETs are really necessary until  a lot of kETs speaks fluently. It will take a long time.

Offline kps1

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I think koreans feel comfortable with the korean teacher. Because they understand more koreans. But with a type of co-teaching , students learn effetively. So, I think NETs are really necessary until  a lot of kETs speaks fluently. It will take a long time.

I slightly disagree with this. I think more immigrants in the future coming to Korea that have a near native level command of Korean would be better for the students. All of my high school and university language classes were taught by teachers from the country I studied. Fact of the matter is, a person with native language skills will always be more capable of answering questions regarding their target language. However, I can see how students do prefer Korean teachers. South Korea isn't quite prepared for the foreign populace as of now. We are still regarded as "foreigners" , where as in countries like the US and Canada we would just be identified by our home country's if anything.

Offline ironopolis

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When I was in university, I had Spanish 2 with a teacher who was bilingual and Spanish 3 with a foreign teacher who only spoke Spanish. If asked on a survey which I preferred, I would definitely say the bilingual teacher purely because it was less stressful to not have to communicate in Spanish all the time. But I learned MUCH much more in Spanish 3.

I'd say 90% of the Spanish I remember today was from the foreign teachers class. I remember tons and tons of things I learned, mostly from days when I was horribly embarrassed and desperately trying to figure out what he was asking me and how to respond to him. Oh God did I hate that class (I remember crying during it once out of frustration) but not using your native language is definitely the best way to learn.

I don't blame the kids one bit for saying they would rather have someone who speaks both Korean and English. It's much easier to breeze through and less embarrassing for them. But it's not going to help them learn anything in the long run. I know today many of the kids don't care about English except as a way to pass tests, but sooner or later  they are going to run into a foreigner who will speak English to them, and only then will they realize that there aren't any multiple choice answers.

Fair enough comment and I'm sure there are plenty folk around with similar experiences who draw similar conclusions. However, I think you've got to keep in mind that what might work for young adults in a university language class isn't necessarily going to work in the same way for elementary, middle or even high school students, particularly when it's a language they didn't choose to learn and may even resent doing so.

As it happens, my own experience of native speaking teachers at the equivalent of middle and high school is pretty much the exact opposite. We had a German assistant for 2 terms and he was absolutely f-ing useless. Of course, he spoke perfect German but he couldn't teach to save his life and had utterly no idea how to relate to British kids. One class actually locked him in a store cupboard.  :laugh: Looking back, the only thing I learnt from him was that being able to speak a language well, even as a native speaker, didn't necessarily mean you could teach it. His one asset - his native speaking ability - wasn't really any advantage because the 2 British teachers of German I had spoke the language to an excellent level anyway. Thanks to them, I achieved the highest grade possible in my A-level German (the public exam you take for uni entrance in England).

That particular native speaker helped me not one iota, however at least he didn't turn me off the language. Because the native speaker I had for French did just that. When I took the exams you take at age 16 in the UK, I was good at both French & German but much preferred French. I continued with both from 16-18 but my preference was completely reversed. It wasn't the only reason but the main one was the teachers I had, and particularly a native speaker from Belgium who taught us for 2 terms as a trainee teacher. She just about had more idea of how to teach than the German language assistant, but had likewise little idea of how to relate to the students she was teaching. Unfortunately, whereas our regular teachers for German were clued up enough to realise the limitations of the German assistant, the head of the French department had her head up her ass and thought that maximum exposure to a native speaker would, per se, by osmosis, make us all better at French. It didn't. Not in one single case of 10 in the class.

I'll stress again here that I'm not concluding that native speakers in the classroom don't do any good. I'm sure that many times they do. But the idea that just their native speaking ability is enough is a dangerously naive assumption IMO. Amongst other things, they'll need some ability to impart their language knowledge and to be deployed appropriately by the schools/educational authorities that employ them.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 02:38:06 pm by ironopolis »