Footage showing teacher beating student causes stir

[cragesmure]

As an older teacher from America, I have grown up in, been subjected to, and witnessed the spectrum of discipline in the educational realm.

I grew up with an alcoholic father who was terribly brutal to my mother and to my brothers and me. One of the reasons I never married was my fear that I could somehow become a father like him. When I became a teacher, I realized that some children misbehave because it is their only means of getting any attention, either negative or positive. I was paddled in elementary school and in high school, and, as I look back, I deserved it, even though more positive measures could have been equally effective. But, at the time it was culturally acceptable to hit children.

 However, as a teacher in America and in Korea for several years, I could never hit a child, no matter how I angry I get. That said, if a child or adult is out of control there are times when physical force (not brutality) can be the only choice. In the case of this video, there was brutality, not discipline. The teacher was angry and out of control and she physically abused the boy and abused her power and position as a teacher. The boy was already humiliated in front of his peers and the slaps and kicks did nothing positive to help the situation nor the education of the boy or the other children.

In my opinion (which granted is rather idealistic) the world has enough violence on every level, from the classroom to the battlefield, and anything we can do as teachers to eliminate the perpetuation of the mythology  that power equals right, is a service to our students, to Korea and to the world. The teacher in the video had the power to hit the child, but she also had the power to teach him and the other children that there are other ways to deal with difficult situations.

Last year, a fourth grade student at my school was caught stealing at school twice. His homeroom teacher called his parents after the second incident. That day, he went home and jumped to his death from the thirteenth story window of his apartment. I constantly wonder if he was as afraid of the physical retribution of his father as I had been of mine.

I don't want my students to be afraid of me. I want them to respect me enough to not want to disappoint me and I want them to be proud of themselves when they achieve and please me. That's the only "power" a teacher should want or need.

I agree with everything that you have said, except for this.  I was beaten black and blue as a kid.  It never drove me to suicide.  No one who fears physical injury jumps out of a window to escape it.  Who would exchange possible/probable pain for certain pain/death?  Please think about what you are saying.  There are obviously more serious issues at play here.
I do, however, agree that teachers shouldn't hit kids.  In the video posted, however, the teacher didn't hit the kid hard.  I realise it's not the issue, but I think it was done more to shame the kid than to injure the kid, which brings me back to my original point.

[kerrym]

cragesmure;'No one who fears physical injury jumps out of a window to escape it.  Who would exchange possible/probable pain for certain pain/death?  Please think about what you are saying.  There are obviously more serious issues at play here"

Believe me, I do think about what I say. Just because you were strong enough to not choose something, doesn't mean a Korean child might not have endured enough pain to choose any means to end his pain. There is no more serious issue here than violence towards children.

The teacher didn't hit the kid hard? Really? She kicked him the crotch twice. The kid at my school jumped out of a window because his parents were called because he got caught stealing. He was afraid of something. My point is not that the kid in the video might make the same choice, but that when children fear teachers and their parents, they might feel they have no other choice. They often see in the news that stars, athletes and politicians (who have many choices) choose suicide to end romantic and financial problems, so in their unsophisticated minds they see a solution to end their pain, fear, fear of pain, etc.,

I'm sorry you had to go through what you did as a child and am glad you were strong/brave enough to endure and thrive. You, too, think about what you say, and realize that your experience is not the reality of all.

[woman-king]

As an older teacher from America, I have grown up in, been subjected to, and witnessed the spectrum of discipline in the educational realm.

I grew up with an alcoholic father who was terribly brutal to my mother and to my brothers and me. One of the reasons I never married was my fear that I could somehow become a father like him. When I became a teacher, I realized that some children misbehave because it is their only means of getting any attention, either negative or positive. I was paddled in elementary school and in high school, and, as I look back, I deserved it, even though more positive measures could have been equally effective. But, at the time it was culturally acceptable to hit children.

 However, as a teacher in America and in Korea for several years, I could never hit a child, no matter how I angry I get. That said, if a child or adult is out of control there are times when physical force (not brutality) can be the only choice. In the case of this video, there was brutality, not discipline. The teacher was angry and out of control and she physically abused the boy and abused her power and position as a teacher. The boy was already humiliated in front of his peers and the slaps and kicks did nothing positive to help the situation nor the education of the boy or the other children.

In my opinion (which granted is rather idealistic) the world has enough violence on every level, from the classroom to the battlefield, and anything we can do as teachers to eliminate the perpetuation of the mythology  that power equals right, is a service to our students, to Korea and to the world. The teacher in the video had the power to hit the child, but she also had the power to teach him and the other children that there are other ways to deal with difficult situations.

Last year, a fourth grade student at my school was caught stealing at school twice. His homeroom teacher called his parents after the second incident. That day, he went home and jumped to his death from the thirteenth story window of his apartment. I constantly wonder if he was as afraid of the physical retribution of his father as I had been of mine.

I don't want my students to be afraid of me. I want them to respect me enough to not want to disappoint me and I want them to be proud of themselves when they achieve and please me. That's the only "power" a teacher should want or need.

I agree with everything that you have said, except for this.  I was beaten black and blue as a kid.  It never drove me to suicide.  No one who fears physical injury jumps out of a window to escape it.  Who would exchange possible/probable pain for certain pain/death?  Please think about what you are saying.  There are obviously more serious issues at play here.
I do, however, agree that teachers shouldn't hit kids.  In the video posted, however, the teacher didn't hit the kid hard.  I realise it's not the issue, but I think it was done more to shame the kid than to injure the kid, which brings me back to my original point.

"Who" would exchange possible/probably pain for certain pain/death?  Anyone who commits suicide.  It's great that you have never been suicidal; abuse and trauma affect different people differently.  The statistical correlation between physical abuse and suicide and substance abuse is, however, very very strong (at least in the U.S. where it's been studied pretty extensively).  It may not seem logical to a non-suicidal person, but that doesn't change the fact that experiencing violence as a child means you'll have a much higher chance of being violent to others or yourself. 

[NMonk]

Wow, I'm saddened/shocked/disgusted by 80% of this thread. To think that there are both foreign and Korean teachers in classrooms alone with students who would endorse this type of assault/beating is beyond belief. How many of all you people claiming it was deserved/acceptable have faced the humiliation of being beaten like this yourself? How about someone comes up to you, repeatedly punches you in the face and kicks you in the balls because you are late for something? would you still say it was o.k then? But you think that because this is a child that can not defend themselves it is o.k?

Now onto the reasons this IS NOT o.k. As teacher we are here to set an example to students on the correct ways to behave. Students imitate the behaviors they see from their role models. We are role models to these students. What that teacher has effectively done is teach to 2 coach loads of young people that it is acceptable in these circumstances to beat another human being for something as trivial, in the grand scheme of things for being late. But not just this, to a lot of the students, of this age group they probably don't understand why it is such a big deal. So not only have you taught them it's o.k to beat another human being for being late, but also any other offence which is if of equal deviance, to the students this is low.

The correct way to deal with this kind of situation in a civilized manner  as an adult is to apologize to people you have disrupted and delayed. The teacher should have made the student write a letter to every single student who he delayed apologizing and explaining why he did it and why he won't do it again. To 100 students that is a hell of a punishment. He would probably prefer the beating, we are here to teach not just English, but right and wrong behaviors and ways to deal with problems. We now have 100 more individuals who think it is o.k to beat other human beings. Lets just hope he's never the teacher for you 80% who condone this children eh?

[andych85]

As a Korean-American GET who grew up in a traditional Korean household the U.S., I will say:

There's a huge difference between using corporate punishment as an effective form of discipline for a student's own good...and violently lashing out against a student in anger in order to satisfy your own bruised ego as a teacher.

It's obvious which attitude this teacher had toward her student...sad!

[Keuka]

This is the new Korea--CNN style ireports now rule.  Now Santa Claus will (really) know if you've been bad or good.  So, be good for goodness sake.

[Frozencat99]

As an older teacher from America, I have grown up in, been subjected to, and witnessed the spectrum of discipline in the educational realm.

I grew up with an alcoholic father who was terribly brutal to my mother and to my brothers and me. One of the reasons I never married was my fear that I could somehow become a father like him. When I became a teacher, I realized that some children misbehave because it is their only means of getting any attention, either negative or positive. I was paddled in elementary school and in high school, and, as I look back, I deserved it, even though more positive measures could have been equally effective. But, at the time it was culturally acceptable to hit children.

 However, as a teacher in America and in Korea for several years, I could never hit a child, no matter how I angry I get. That said, if a child or adult is out of control there are times when physical force (not brutality) can be the only choice. In the case of this video, there was brutality, not discipline. The teacher was angry and out of control and she physically abused the boy and abused her power and position as a teacher. The boy was already humiliated in front of his peers and the slaps and kicks did nothing positive to help the situation nor the education of the boy or the other children.

In my opinion (which granted is rather idealistic) the world has enough violence on every level, from the classroom to the battlefield, and anything we can do as teachers to eliminate the perpetuation of the mythology  that power equals right, is a service to our students, to Korea and to the world. The teacher in the video had the power to hit the child, but she also had the power to teach him and the other children that there are other ways to deal with difficult situations.

Last year, a fourth grade student at my school was caught stealing at school twice. His homeroom teacher called his parents after the second incident. That day, he went home and jumped to his death from the thirteenth story window of his apartment. I constantly wonder if he was as afraid of the physical retribution of his father as I had been of mine.

I don't want my students to be afraid of me. I want them to respect me enough to not want to disappoint me and I want them to be proud of themselves when they achieve and please me. That's the only "power" a teacher should want or need.

I agree with everything that you have said, except for this.  I was beaten black and blue as a kid.  It never drove me to suicide.  No one who fears physical injury jumps out of a window to escape it.  Who would exchange possible/probable pain for certain pain/death?  Please think about what you are saying.  There are obviously more serious issues at play here.
I do, however, agree that teachers shouldn't hit kids.  In the video posted, however, the teacher didn't hit the kid hard.  I realise it's not the issue, but I think it was done more to shame the kid than to injure the kid, which brings me back to my original point.

"Who" would exchange possible/probably pain for certain pain/death?  Anyone who commits suicide.  It's great that you have never been suicidal; abuse and trauma affect different people differently.  The statistical correlation between physical abuse and suicide and substance abuse is, however, very very strong (at least in the U.S. where it's been studied pretty extensively).  It may not seem logical to a non-suicidal person, but that doesn't change the fact that experiencing violence as a child means you'll have a much higher chance of being violent to others or yourself.

I'm in total agreement here. As someone whose studied suicide for my degree, and (as morbid as this is) whose read books on it for pleasure, the correlation between abuse and suicide is irrefutable. That a child would commit suicide to escape punishment from his father isn't at all unbelievable.

I'm entirely against capital punishment because criminology has been through its rounds time and time again. When capital punishment proved ineffective, prisons came about, and now that we know prisons are laughably bad at doing what they're supposed to do (look up recidivism rates in countries that aren't Norway/The Netherlands), we're coming full circle. Likewise, in the classroom, it seems we're stuck in a cycle of whether or not its okay to hit a child in specific circumstances. The only time I was spanked as a child was when I tried to stick a fork in an electric outlet when I was two and I grew up respectful of property, authority, and what have you.

It seems a lot of people are willing to make the easy, unfounded jump between "you can't hit kids these days" and "what is wrong with kids these days?". You need evidence, not anecdotes, to back up such a weak claim. My parents thought my generation was carelessly undisciplined, and I'm willing to bet that their parents thought they were out of control as well. What it comes down to is whether or not physical discipline has the desired effect on preventing negative behaviour, and whether or not you can back your claims up with clinical studies and developmental psychology.

[kukine]

What could really even be done about this? I mean would they really make new rules or regulations for it?

[Frozencat99]

What could really even be done about this? I mean would they really make new rules or regulations for it?

I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know what 'this' refers to, but I assume you are talking about teachers assaulting students? The simple answer is to throw people in jail who assault other people. Pretty simple, really. You don't need to make new rules or regulations. They already exist.

They'll just come out of prison as more efficient assault machines.

[waldron1983]

2 thoughts.

1. This was rather funny. I thought i was watching "Rock em Sock em" robots fight. You can tell most Koreans have never been in a real fight.

2. Perhaps I dont agree with the hitting of the nuts...corporal punishment is a very very good and effective thing, if used correctly and not abused. Many kids here are out of control and need their asses handed to them.