My girlfriend is pregnant

[lotte world]

Don't have it.  Period.  If you are teaching in Korea, you have no income for a kid.  Most likely that kids will be hated by the entire family.  If you have the kid now, you will never be able save money for the future.  The average costs for a child with school, clothes, food, welfare, healthcare, etc. is $10,000.  You might want to lay out the facts to her.

That is simply nonsense.  Did you sign up just to say that?  And do you mean $10k/year or just $10k?

I cannot spend my income here fast enough (E2 visa, public school job).  Our jobs are not difficult, we are paid well, and living expenses here are low.  I can easily save $1k/mo without trying, so that covers your $10k figure.  There is no real reason that OP can't continue in the same position for many years yet.  OP's (future) wife will have earning potential too.

[curiousforeigner]

Don't have it.  Period.  If you are teaching in Korea, you have no income for a kid.  Most likely that kids will be hated by the entire family.  If you have the kid now, you will never be able save money for the future.  The average costs for a child with school, clothes, food, welfare, healthcare, etc. is $10,000.  You might want to lay out the facts to her.

That is simply nonsense.  Did you sign up just to say that?  And do you mean $10k/year or just $10k?

I cannot spend my income here fast enough (E2 visa, public school job).  Our jobs are not difficult, we are paid well, and living expenses here are low.  I can easily save $1k/mo without trying, so that covers your $10k figure.  There is no real reason that OP can't continue in the same position for many years yet.  OP's (future) wife will have earning potential too.

First of all, for your consideration:  http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/CRC/crc2010.pdf

Plus, after your child's health, wealthfare, etc.  You should be saving more than $1K a month.

Second, the fact that living expenses are less here is bunk, in my experiences here.  If you want to live like a farmer and have no pleasurable things in your life, then yes.  Other than that food is not cheaper.  Any electronics, extra-curricular activities (academies are pricey for parents), activities for fun (swimming, eating out, movies, cable, sports (jerseys, equipment), school equipment (uniforms, glasses, books, computers), dental care, and most of all, major medical emergencies are all "normal" prices and sometimes even more here.  And saving $1k a month is NOTHING for a decent earner who has no dependents or rent.  That is something a college student should be doing.  With such little saving, any unexpected emergency could easily leave someone with such meager savings destitute.  Especially with a family.

There is a huge difference between refusing a child out of discipline and refusing out of poverty.

Third, from the time I've spent here, most schools with E-2 positions try to replace you so they do not have to start a pension plan.  You must find a new school to work at every 2 years or so, perhaps there are exceptions, especially if you a great worker.  You have then the situation that you will have a child with no real permanent address for most of his up bringing.  A problem only solved keep a single place costing rent.

Lastly, its a monumental decision and situation to be involved in.  Not to belittle any possibilities or spirituality.  Quite frequently in such situations, the right decision can be a cruel one.

[dansk]

And saving $1k a month is NOTHING for a decent earner who has no dependents or rent.  That is something a college student should be doing.  With such little saving, any unexpected emergency could easily leave someone with such meager savings destitute.  Especially with a family.

There is a huge difference between refusing a child out of discipline and refusing out of poverty.

These statements make me wonder if you've ever been a college student, or if you have any idea what poverty actually is.

[curiousforeigner]

And saving $1k a month is NOTHING for a decent earner who has no dependents or rent.  That is something a college student should be doing.  With such little saving, any unexpected emergency could easily leave someone with such meager savings destitute.  Especially with a family.

There is a huge difference between refusing a child out of discipline and refusing out of poverty.

These statements make me wonder if you've ever been a college student, or if you have any idea what poverty actually is.

2 of technical, 4 of university.  As a child, helped my mom before school in the morning to deliver papers cause we needed the money.

My post was not to belittle any position, insult anyone, or demean a poster.  Which you seem to want to do.  I simply listed to difficulties and explained hard money.  Make any budget then add a child to it.  It's eye opening.

[justanotherwaygook]

Third, from the time I've spent here, most schools with E-2 positions try to replace you so they do not have to start a pension plan.  You must find a new school to work at every 2 years or so, perhaps there are exceptions, especially if you a great worker.  You have then the situation that you will have a child with no real permanent address for most of his up bringing.  A problem only solved keep a single place costing rent.

You do realize how pension works here, right?

What if OP gets married?  From his posts, it seems not that unrealistic that he could get married.

Plenty of foreigners here on F6 visas raising kids without anymore worries than any other family.

[lotte world]

Don't have it.  Period.  If you are teaching in Korea, you have no income for a kid.  Most likely that kids will be hated by the entire family.  If you have the kid now, you will never be able save money for the future.  The average costs for a child with school, clothes, food, welfare, healthcare, etc. is $10,000.  You might want to lay out the facts to her.

That is simply nonsense.  Did you sign up just to say that?  And do you mean $10k/year or just $10k?

I cannot spend my income here fast enough (E2 visa, public school job).  Our jobs are not difficult, we are paid well, and living expenses here are low.  I can easily save $1k/mo without trying, so that covers your $10k figure.  There is no real reason that OP can't continue in the same position for many years yet.  OP's (future) wife will have earning potential too.

First of all, for your consideration:  http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/CRC/crc2010.pdf

This is for the United States.  Do you have any figures for Korea?  (And no, they are not the same).

Plus, after your child's health, wealthfare, etc.  You should be saving more than $1K a month.

The point is that I have enough money now, based on your figures.

Second, the fact that living expenses are less here is bunk, in my experiences here.  If you want to live like a farmer and have no pleasurable things in your life, then yes.  Other than that food is not cheaper.  Any electronics, extra-curricular activities (academies are pricey for parents), activities for fun (swimming, eating out, movies, cable, sports (jerseys, equipment), school equipment (uniforms, glasses, books, computers), dental care, and most of all, major medical emergencies are all "normal" prices and sometimes even more here.  And saving $1k a month is NOTHING for a decent earner who has no dependents or rent.  That is something a college student should be doing.  With such little saving, any unexpected emergency could easily leave someone with such meager savings destitute.  Especially with a family.

Living expenses are less here.  I have lived in many countries around the world.  The cost of living in Korea is absurdly cheap.

I wouldn't send my child to an academy.  The kids hate them and they are a waste of money.

Eating out is a treat, so wouldn't happen often.

Health care is socialised, as it should be.

You also forget that in Korea, families are very supportive.

There is a huge difference between refusing a child out of discipline and refusing out of poverty.

It's a bit late for that.  The bun is well and truly in the oven.

Third, from the time I've spent here, most schools with E-2 positions try to replace you so they do not have to start a pension plan.  You must find a new school to work at every 2 years or so, perhaps there are exceptions, especially if you a great worker.  You have then the situation that you will have a child with no real permanent address for most of his up bringing.  A problem only solved keep a single place costing rent.

This is not true.  The pension starts the moment you start working here.  There must be another reason that schools don't want to keep you.

Lastly, its a monumental decision and situation to be involved in.  Not to belittle any possibilities or spirituality.  Quite frequently in such situations, the right decision can be a cruel one.

Believe it or not, people have been having babies for millenia, in all kinds of circumstances.

I am pro-choice.  But it's not my choice to make, and it's not yours either.  What you are saying is that you yourself wouldn't have a child in *your* circumstances.  I commend you on being firm on that decision and I hope you don't find yourself in a similar situation (remember- refuse out of discipline!).

OP- Any update on your situation?

[woman-king]

Believe it or not, people have been having babies for millenia, in all kinds of circumstances.

I am pro-choice.  But it's not my choice to make, and it's not yours either.  What you are saying is that you yourself wouldn't have a child in *your* circumstances.  I commend you on being firm on that decision and I hope you don't find yourself in a similar situation (remember- refuse out of discipline!).

OP- Any update on your situation?
[/quote]

Ha.

But, yes.  This thread is pretty fascinating, and what kind of response is "Don't have it," seriously?

Look, as smart and pragmatic as I'm sure everyone advocating for termination thinks they are, if the the girlfriend won't go through with the abortion and the OP wants to be a part of his child's life, he needs a lot of practical information that people arguing for terminating the pregnancy have failed to provide.  He sounds intelligent enough to articulate the reasons for ending the pregnancy to his girlfriend, and I think the suggestion to make that case and then give her a couple days to think about it before broaching the subject again is fair and sensible enough.  Beyond that, though, what he really needs is practical advice about living long-term in Korea and raising a child here, etc.  That not sound like the ideal future to many of us, but let's remember that a lot of Western guys marry and start families with Korean women here and are very happy.  Not a lot at 24, true, but some don't seem to be too much older than that, and all the ones I know seem to be doing all right.  Yes, the OP is in a serious situation, but some of the unhelpful responses are over-exaggerating the dreadfulness of it to a melodramatic degree.

[lights]

My bf is Korean and I got pregnant after we had only been dating about 3 months. It was right before my contract was ending and I was thinking about going back to my country for a little bit. I only had a couple thousand dollars saved and I wasn't about to get a shotgun wedding. I had met his parents before and they were really nice. I always hear Koreans talk about how meeting the parents is a big deal, but I've dated two Korean guys and met their parents after a short time after we started dating. I think it just depends on the person's parents. Well, I ended up getting an abortion in Korea and I'm glad I did it.  I know it's supposedly illegal, but you can go to just about any gynecologist and they will do it. They did require that both the man and woman sign a paper saying they both wanted it though. Strange.. Anyways, it was really easy. They put you to sleep and do it. I had no problems after it. I know some people will think I'm a bad person, but I just wasn't ready financially, emotionally, or in any way. It was the right choice for me and I have almost no regrets.

I don't really know what advice to give you since your gf is the one that has to make the choice. I was on the other side of the situation. I think you guys should get married if she does have the baby. I know people say 24 is too young to get married, but our grandparents and ancestors got married often when they were in their teens back in the day and they made their marriages work and raised their kids alright. I know it's different now in many ways. It's easier in some ways and harder in others. I'm glad you want to stay with her and take responsibility. Maybe you should also meet the parents before she breaks the news. Not sure if it will help, but at least you won't be a total stranger to them. Many guys would bail in the situation so pat yourself on the back for being a good person. It will be hard for sure if she has the baby and most likely a little drama with family, but I think you guys will be alright. You probably won't have a lot of money to throw around, but I'm sure you will be able to provide for a family. Hopefully she has a job to help out as well. On the bright side, you have a few things going for you teaching here that save money: insurance (I'm American so I would be screwed) , free housing, decent salary and you could do privates and make some extra $, transportation is cheap and you don't need a car.

I've seen several mixed race kids in Seoul and the waygook mom or dad is most likely a teacher and if they can do it you can too. Also, my boyfriend has told me he knows a few Koreans that have kids out of wedlock so if you guys don't do the shotgun wedding thing then maybe it won't be as bad as you think. Well good luck to you!

[dansk]

And saving $1k a month is NOTHING for a decent earner who has no dependents or rent.  That is something a college student should be doing.  With such little saving, any unexpected emergency could easily leave someone with such meager savings destitute.  Especially with a family.

There is a huge difference between refusing a child out of discipline and refusing out of poverty.

These statements make me wonder if you've ever been a college student, or if you have any idea what poverty actually is.

2 of technical, 4 of university.  As a child, helped my mom before school in the morning to deliver papers cause we needed the money.

My post was not to belittle any position, insult anyone, or demean a poster.  Which you seem to want to do.  I simply listed to difficulties and explained hard money.  Make any budget then add a child to it.  It's eye opening.

I'm not belittling anyone, I'm just baffled by your understanding of money.  You seem to think that $1000 a month of disposable income is pocket change.

I personally broke even on university by working full-time through the summer and as much as I could manage through the school year.  Saving money during those years is a pipe dream; the vast majority of people leave with debt.

[JahRhythm]

The idea that a college student "should be" able to save $1,000/month is absurd.
Dunno where that guy is coming from.

I have several friends who have started families here and it's not as expensive as many people (me) may think.
You can certainly do it on a teachers salary.
Not to mention the marriage visa opens one up to a whole range of lucrative part-time and tutoring opportunities.
As mentioned above, family support in terms of child care, clothing, food and often straight cash is a huge help provided the in-laws have the means and the relationship is such that they want to help out.
In the situations that I'm close to the in-laws are God-sends and bend over backwards to help out.

[Jrong]

Look, as smart and pragmatic as I'm sure everyone advocating for termination thinks they are, if the the girlfriend won't go through with the abortion and the OP wants to be a part of his child's life, he needs a lot of practical information that people arguing for terminating the pregnancy have failed to provide. 

I sure hope he doesn't "need" that practical information from us cause that's scary. If he has good relationships with Koreans here or long-term foreigner friends who can help him through this (in the flesh) then it might turn out OK (given he's not willing to push for abortion), but if the OP has to resort to posting such a personal and life-changing question on an anonymous internet forum in hopes of getting any advice I'd say he's in much more trouble than all of y'all think.

[Peekay1982]

I am shocked at all of the responses regarding Korean parents and how they will most likely react negatively. I believe it of course, a co-teacher also told me she's getting pressure to marry but the guy must be Korean (she broke off with her American boyfriend over this) and the guy must make more money than her (she broke off with her Korean boyfriend over this).

What's up with these Korean parents?

I know dozens of white guys married, or not, with kids, or not, to SE Asian girls. I don't know a single one of them who wasn't welcomed with complete love and open arms the very first time they met the folks.

Why would anybody choose to go through that ridiculous song and dance here?

So true. Just reading through this thread, I decided to ring my girlfriend (a kyopo adoptee) and just tell her how much I appreciate being with someone who doesn't have to hide our relationship from insane/racist parents. My ex - a Korean - was terrified that her father would find out about us because "he will be jealous(!) and he hates foreigners". This was despite her living by herself and taking care of her middle school-aged brother whilst giving money to her unemployed, poker-addict father. It really wears you down. I want my girlfriend's parents to hate me because of me, not because of where I'm from. I had a Jewish girlfriend back in the UK and it was the same nonsense.

[Plaswuff]

Really s*** situation OP. Loads of people are congratulating you about deciding to stick at the relationship, and a few are saying abortion or adoption might be the way to go.

My two cents would be don't stick with it if you'll end up resenting the girl and the kid, if life will become some grueling affair from here on out. Think about what you're giving up as well. What were your plans? You seem pretty devoted, but you're also quite young, and your effectively planning the rest of your life here.

I'm not quite sure what I mean by 'not sticking with it', but certainly consider the other options available to you.

I hope whatever you decide to do makes you happy though.

Good luck.

[nab]

First off, I know this is an incredibly difficult situation and I applaud your responsibility. Many men these days leave the woman in the dust when something like this happens. My brother's girlfriend got pregnant in college and though they never got married he is still an active part of his son's life and gives my brother incredible joy and is a big blessing.

Second, I am married to a Korean woman and have a son. Don't listen to the person a page or two back that said that the family would not accept your child. My Korean in-laws LOVE my son and me. I know that every family is different but my experience has been incredibly positive. My wife's family has gone out of their way on so many occasions to help us. It doesn't sound like her family is too opposed to you. If they know about you and haven't told your daughter to stop dating you then that is a positive sign in my opinion.

My wife and I met in China where we were working and when she told her mom that we wanted to get married, her mom was initially opposed to it but after meeting me she now loves me so much. A small piece of advice on how I won my mom-in-laws love is to eat as much food as you can and say how delicious it is. For me, this was all true, but I even eat a lot of the stuff she gives me that I am not too crazy about.

Also, having children is not the end of your life or a life sentence. It is an incredible blessing and joy. Is it difficult at times? Do you have to sacrifice? Yes, but that is part of growing up.

Third, I know that when having a kid finances is something that men worry about. That is understandable. But I want to follow up on something that a poster said a while ago about the Korean government helping you out. This is true. In general, Koreans get a good bit of help from the government with kids. All women get some money when they are pregnant to help out with medical bills. Some places give out free vitamins. Every city / location is different but many even give money when your child is born (differing amounts depending on location and if they child is first, second, etc.). Since my son is a cross cultural child (one parent from a different country), my wife recently found out that any day care we send him to is entirely covered by the government. Anyways, there are a lot of ways that you will get financial help in raising this child. Also, as other posters have said, if you spend your money wisely it is easy to save money here in Korea.

Fourth, when I got married in Korea both my wife's family and mine paid for the wedding. But we kept all the wedding gifts. I have never heard of someone's parents keeping the wedding money given to the bride and groom.

Hope this helps you out,

[Blacklamb]

I have no first hand experience in this situation, but what I wanted to say that I think you are being brave and sincere and have your intentions in the right place. A lesser person would not have the guts to take this on.

You've talked a lot about supporting your girlfriend, and that's very important, but I am wondering and hoping that you have someone to support you...like, either here in Korea, or someone back home. Do your parents/family know?? I'm not wanting you to reply to this or anything, just pointing out that you're in this just as much and probably have fears and doubts or even a need to share news with someone you trust.

Take things step by step. Breathe. Think about what you want, too.

Talk to others, but listen to what's in your own heart and mind.

I hope you and your girlfriend are ok. Best of luck!!!!

[Leear in Korea]

My advice: roll with it as though you asked choose this decision.

Best of luck and Congrats you going to be a dad!

[raider576]

Out of curiosity and boredom, I'll ask if anyone can back up the saving $1000 a month/$12000 a year (or some comparable figure in won/ non-US dollars, other currencies) while in college with an executed earnings/expenses plan.  I'm not asking for anything comprehensive but just some ballpark figures. 

To throw out some extremely low numbers.  http://www.studentadvisor.com/compare/harvard-university-vs-ulster-county-community-college

$34,976    $3,820

+12,000    +12,000

Assuming one lives with ones parents who provide all food, transportation costs, clothing, medical care, books, etc.  We are looking at a minimum salary of ~47k to attend harvard and ~16k to attend a community college in NY. 

I think the 16k figure is attainable but by no means easy for most people working part-time in coffee shops.   Perhaps in a different part of the country/world a ~20k part-time salary is possible while living at home.  I think that if we add in an extreme low-ball number of $300 a month for living expenses and $300 a month for rent (there's the I live on 300,000 a month thread going around), we end up with an additional ~7k for ~23k income. 

I'm starting to see that with financial aid packages and an extreme work-ethic coupled with good health and the willingness to NOT attend even a mid-tier university, it's possible to save 12k/year.  However, I seriously question if this is something that everyone "can" or "should" do.  Excluding social life deprivation, there may be a real impact on grades and or health.