Author Topic: Frustration  (Read 2514 times)

Offline w0tness

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Frustration
« on: January 02, 2012, 07:10:33 am »
Hey guys

I just wanted to gather some option seeing as I'm weighing all my options at the moment. I'm currently working at a Hagwon in Changwon. Currently, our Hagwon is working us to the bone with 9 hours a day and about 8 classes. I also applied for some leave after which my director told me that's impossible. All these things are basically in opposite to what my contract is. I'm really feeling at wits end at the moment and thinking of just packing my stuff and leaving. I've been here for about 3 months now. What exactly can they do if I decide to just leave? Can they prosecute me? I was thinking I'll just put my airfare money in an envelope in my director's office on a Friday night or something. Any1 got some info on this?

Offline w4z

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2012, 07:55:02 am »
If they're treating you like garbage, take the money and run.  They can't prosecute you outside of Korea.  How many contracted teaching hours do you have?  If your teaching 8 hours a day 6 days a week with basically little to no prep time, are you getting over time?

Offline Rutten

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2012, 08:31:40 am »
Koreans quit all the time with little or no notice. I work in a public school and at least 3 or 4 times my co-teachers (of whom were all on temp contracts) were there one day and gone the next with not even so much as a 'goodbye'. Same happened in a hagwon too. Try looking for another job maybe?... Or just leg it out of the country :P Up to you.

Offline w0tness

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2012, 09:44:48 am »
Like, I would go through the normal process of giving a monh's notice before actually leaving my actual job, but I've heard so many stories of people ending up not getting payed for that last month. I really don't mind paying my director the money he spent in getting me here, so that's not a problem.

If I do decide to do a 'midnight run', will I have any problems at the airport when trying to book a flight out of the country? I'm just wondering what I should expect, so that I can be ready for it.

Are you guys sure that they can't prosecute you when you get back to your home country (South Africa)? I really don't want to end up having to go back to Korea or something like that. Any more information would be appreciated!

Offline w4z

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2012, 09:54:57 am »
You're not really committing any serious crime.  You'd be quitting a job that treats you poorly.  When you signed that contract, you did not sign your life away.  I personally would leg it.  I never put my trust in people when it comes to money I've earned.  He will probably try to get out of paying you the money you're owed, and taking the money for the plane ticket.

Also, the effort to collect a petty sum of money through international law is mind boggling.  Think about it..  If someone stole your laptop in your home country and left for Nigeria, how would you get it back?  Even if you knew his name and info, it would be d@mn near impossible.

Offline gookway

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2012, 10:11:05 am »
I disagree with everyone saying to "NIGHT RUN".  You guys who do night runs are the ones who are giving all NETs a bad name and destroying the English jobs for the good teachers out there who want to stay in Korea and keep working.

It doesn't matter if they are treating you bad.  If you want to quit, then give them a heads up notice (2 weeks, 1 month, anything is better than a night run). 

If they are treating you bad, you should tell them.  By doing a night run and being completely unprofessional about it will continue the trend of koreans belief that English teachers are immature, unprofessional, and should continue to be treated as lower-rung workers who can be overworked and taken advantage of. 

I'm sorry to hear you hate it at your job, but the truth is, you don't know for a fact they are treating you badly.  Maybe that is what the expect of all their employees.  That's why you should tell them so they understand that they are overstepping the contract guidelines.  If they knowingly do it, then you can professionally and kindly notify them of your resignation and leave free of guilt.

Leaving in a night run (or just leaving without notice...storming out the door), leaves a very bad perpetuation of a negative image of NETs and the next dude who takes your spot is gonna be treated even worse because of previous NETs who set the bar.

I really hope you can make things work out or find a way to get out nicely.  Just don't listen to the people on here who keep saying things like "night runs" and "it doesn't matter, they can't do anything to you".   

It's affecting us all.

Offline giselle

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2012, 10:15:51 am »
They absolutely can not prosecute you, so don't worry about that!  And they can't stop you at immigration; you could be leaving the country on vacation, for all they know.  I wouldn't even give your boss the money back for the plane ticket, just collect your last pay & get the hell outta there.  I suppose that makes me like all the other "dishonest, thieving foreigners".  I'm sure cases exist, but in (only) 3 years living here, I've never heard of anyone giving their notice & following all the "rules" in the contract & actually leaving with all that's due them.  They never get paid their last salary, and it's equally difficult for both parties to collect internationally. Lots of hagwons are sheisty, for sure.  The only problem you could have is getting another job in Korea.  If that's really important to you, consider your choices carefully.  But if you really don't care ... well then ...

Offline w4z

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2012, 10:30:57 am »
@gookway
Normally I agree with this position in public schools, but I've seen too many horror stories when it comes to a hagwon.  I simply do not trust a school when profits are involved.  I don't care if WE get a bad rap.  We have no rights here.  We can't (easily) fight these people over working conditions or wages earned.  They have the upper hand, they know it, and many of them exploit it.

I'm still curious if the OP gets overtime.  Did you sign a contract with a set amount of teaching hours?

Offline w0tness

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2012, 11:52:32 am »
My contract clearly states that I have to work 8 hours a day and thus 40 hours per week. It also clearly states that I should only teach 30 classes per week. Currently I'm working about 48 hours per week and teaching around 35 classes. My contract also clearly states that I am entitled to a maximum of 8 days of paid vacation. When I asked for leave, my director just told me that its not company policy or some hogwash like that. Oh yea, we dont get paid overtime as well. I've probably worked about 40 hours of overtime in the past month or so, without seeing a dime. Look, I'm not lazy at all. I dont mind working hard, but its just matter of actually being equally compensated for your efforts. Waygook I understand what you are trying to say, I do, but I'm just fed up with this crap. Its my life and I deserve to have a decent job that doesnt stress me to the bone. They have already broken contract so many times, it stands to reason that I can thus do the same without feeling guilty. Three teachers at our school has also left without giving notice because our Hagwon is so corrupt.

Offline Jrong

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2012, 12:09:40 pm »
Life is like this: The job creator (master) wants profit, that's all. He doesn't give a d@mn about you really. Sure, it may feel like he does sometimes (and you may have a "relatively-good" master) but the bottom line is money or prestige or some other thing of value that he can get by having you work for him. Because you are the employee (slave) you lack power and are easily abused. You are more likely to be abused when you cost him something. Telling him before you leave puts him in a position that will cost him so don't tell him, don't be abused anymore, just run.

I would probably give notice at my public school if I were to leave but definitely not if I were working at a "for-profit" business where the master has way too much at stake if one of his slaves runs off.
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Offline w4z

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2012, 12:21:04 pm »
You're being taken advantage of.  The crappy thing about it is, if you bring any of this up with your employer, you'll most likely be fired for some ridiculous reason.  They will find one.  If you want to work in Korea again, bring this stuff up and get fired or put in your notice.  If not, then leave.  Consider your flight money as the money they wouldn't pay you if you put in 30/60 days notice.

Offline WorkingTitle3484

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2012, 12:49:47 pm »
Quote
What exactly can they do if I decide to just leave? Can they prosecute me? I was thinking I'll just put my airfare money in an envelope in my director's office on a Friday night or something. Any1 got some info on this?

What can they do?  Besides grumble and hold ill-fitting stereotypes, nothing.  They can't prosecute you because you do have the right to leave given enough notice.  Even without notice, you can still take off with no worries.

Overall, you can take vacation whenever you want.  You might not be paid for it, but you can still take it.  Do what's necessary to keep you sane.   The fact that 3 teachers have left should tell you something.  You can kill your director with kindness and maybe the table will turn in your favor.  But, you sound like you've got integrity so I don't wholly recommend the latter with my heart.

You won't be blackballed by Korea or the Ministry of Education...but word of mouth can kill you if you're in a small city.  If you're director's buddy buddy with the right people, you might be swimming up a waterfall.  However, you can change cities with no problems.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 12:52:48 pm by WorkingTitle3484 »
You get what you give :)

Offline plchron

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2012, 02:59:18 pm »
Don't give back your airfare. He has no way of ever getting it back, regardless of what is stated in the contract. Consider yourself reimbursed for the overtime you were not paid for. Remember, He is taking advantage of you. It is his fault. Bail, try to sabotage him, etc.

Offline jdw501

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2012, 03:39:19 pm »
I would do what's best for you and that includes the take-it-and-run approach which most people have suggested with the flight money (assuming you've exhausted all reasonable options to make your workplace life better). In my heart I have sympathy with what gookway advises. There is a right way to finish a job and it's nice to leave on good terms. However, this is ain't the USA, the UK or South Africa. You might contribute to NETs having a bad name. You'll be one of many. However, there's no point sacrificing yor sanity if they are treating you badly which it sounds like they are. NETs have a bad name for a variety of reasons. Some of us are lazy. Some of us whine about Korea too much. Some of us aren't good at the job. However, the main reason we have a bad name is because we're foreign. Sad, but I think it's true. I'd do whatever you need to do. From experience of what I've seen and heard elsewhere, a lot of hagwon director's won't worry about screwing you over when the time comes so you shouldn't have any dilemmas either.

Offline JahRhythm

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2012, 04:51:04 pm »
Leg it!
And no, it doesn't "affect us all..."
Some of "us" have real jobs.
We teach EFL not ESL. Hagwon and "Private School" are not synonymous. Not everyone works in either a hagwon or public school. Immigration Question? Call 1345.

Offline pak yu man

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2012, 05:00:02 pm »
Don't do a midnight run.  Tell your boss you get vacation days.  They are in the contract should be 10).  Get paid and inform your boss you are going on a four day holiday and don't come back.  Midnight runs are a pain.  Midday runs are much better.

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2012, 05:36:13 pm »
What your hagwon director/owner can do is call Korean Immigration and keep you from getting another E2 visa to work here until the period of your contract with your hagwon is over.   The other thing they can do is give you a bad reference if you put them down on another job application.

Offline kps1

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2012, 06:18:25 pm »
Don't do a midnight run. Put in your 30 days notice if you ever want to work in this country again.

Offline orangeman

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2012, 06:34:36 pm »
I disagree with everyone saying to "NIGHT RUN".  You guys who do night runs are the ones who are giving all NETs a bad name and destroying the English jobs for the good teachers out there who want to stay in Korea and keep working.

It doesn't matter if they are treating you bad.  If you want to quit, then give them a heads up notice (2 weeks, 1 month, anything is better than a night run). 

If they are treating you bad, you should tell them.  By doing a night run and being completely unprofessional about it will continue the trend of koreans belief that English teachers are immature, unprofessional, and should continue to be treated as lower-rung workers who can be overworked and taken advantage of. 

I'm sorry to hear you hate it at your job, but the truth is, you don't know for a fact they are treating you badly.  Maybe that is what the expect of all their employees.  That's why you should tell them so they understand that they are overstepping the contract guidelines.  If they knowingly do it, then you can professionally and kindly notify them of your resignation and leave free of guilt.

Leaving in a night run (or just leaving without notice...storming out the door), leaves a very bad perpetuation of a negative image of NETs and the next dude who takes your spot is gonna be treated even worse because of previous NETs who set the bar.

I really hope you can make things work out or find a way to get out nicely.  Just don't listen to the people on here who keep saying things like "night runs" and "it doesn't matter, they can't do anything to you".   

It's affecting us all.

I disagree with almost everything here.  First, the OP is not responsible for the 'image' of every NET in Korea.  Neither am I and neither are you.  It is not my fault if Koreans choose to lump us all together.  Would you tell a Chinese person in the US to act a certain way to better the 'image' of Chinese in America?  Would you tell a black person not to quit a job because it makes all black people look bad.  I'm not saying the stereotyping doesn't exist, but it is not the responsibility of those being discriminated against to correct it.  Further, the OP has a much higher responsibility to himself than to any of us.  He shouldn't stay at a job he hates and/or lose wages just to defend the perception of some other foreigner on a message board.  You want Koreans to have a higher opinion of you, then you earn it yourself.  It's not up to us to earn it for you.  Afterall, it's the hogwan that has started to act illegally, not the OP.  So why not put the onus on the hogwan to create a better image of Korean business?  Because I'll tell you, foreigners in Korea have a much better rep than Korean businesses around the world. 

Second, "You don't know for a fact they are treating you badly."  I would agree with this sometimes because there does seem to be a lot of entitled 22 year olds running around.  However, the OP has already stated how he is being treated not only in conflict with his contract but also with common sense.  Sure, maybe that's how the company expects all its employees to work, but maybe the company expects its employees to stay till 2am scrubbing the floors.  That doesn't make it right.  It also doesn't matter if no one else is speaking up.  Again, the OP has a responsibility to himself, not the other employees.

Third, "It doesn't matter if they are treating you bad."  Yes.  Yes, it does.  We are not poor destitute slaves beholded to the glorious corporate leader that has generously bestowed upon us employment.  A contract is supposed to benefit both parties.  We offer our labour for their capital because both of us only have one.  If the employer witholds the capital why should we continue to give our labour?  Should the boss still pay us when we leave?  It's a really strange point of view.

Fourth, do you really believe the hogwan owner just plum forgot to pay the OT and will do so immediately once the OP points it out to him?  "Really?  I had no idea!  Well, here's a stack of manwons!  I'm so sorry!  BRAINFART!"  The OP already requested his vacation days and was refused. 

In sum, I don't know if you've ever had to deal with a hogwan owner.  I have had to fight for every last penny and holiday, and often still came out on the losing end.  And they'll do it with a smile on their face the whole time.  It's a for profit business and they know they have almost all the power over you.  The only thing we've got is the ability to just leave.  The justice system, the rental system, the job market, the visa process, the police, the banking, everything is stacked against us except us just picking up and leaving.  If the OP believes that is his only option to alleviate the situation then that's his decision.  Koreans leave their jobs here everyday and people in our home countries quit every minute of every day.  Why should it be different for foreigners here, especially when we're being ripped off.  In fact, I might even go as far to say that the OP has a duty to screw them over in an effort to put them out of business. 

Offline Frozencat99

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Re: Frustration
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2012, 06:42:06 pm »
We get sick days and vacation days by our contracts, but only the right to actively choose one of them. I can't just wave my ~VaCaTiOn DaY~ flag at my principal because I want to. Declining vacation days is not a sign of mistreatment unless they never come to you.

Second, both sides need to fight discrimination. As someone who regularly faces discrimination (not so much overtly here, given I'm not interpersonal about certain details), it takes two sides to breach those stereotypes.

Don't do a midnight run. While the image of NETs is not in your control, contributing to it in a negative way is. Act responsibly and legally, regardless if you think you can escape without a dent to your personal/legal security. If you breach contract and run simply because your contract isn't being followed, you're committing the same wrong twice. As cliche as it is, make a right out of the situation.
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