Article about teacher cutbacks.

[confusedsafferinkorea]

http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2946533&cloc=joongangdaily|home|newslist1

Interesting paragraph, particularly the highlighted section:

“Numerous foreign English teachers in Seoul were considering holding protests or taking some form of collective action to express dissatisfaction with the new plan,” Chao said. “But an official from the education office told us that wasn’t a good idea. He said Koreans would only hate us even more.”

So by implication this government official says Koreans hate us and if we protested they would hate us even more.  I am sure he is speaking for himself and not the general Korean population, at least I hope so.

[MiWonTeacher]

  I am sure he is speaking for himself and not the general Korean population, at least I hope so.

Don't be sure he said anything of the sort. He said, she said.

[confusedsafferinkorea]

I hope to stay here with my family for a long time. I love it here.


Well unless you work at a hogwan, the chances of your staying here for a long time in a public school are just about zero. This elimination of public school teachers has been on the agenda ever since I got here in 2008. 2014 is the cutoff and unless there is a drastic turn around in policy (new ruling party, perhaps this year?) the writing is on the wall for public schools.

So, the prospects are to find a good private school, get into a university or head off into the sunset in 2014.

[bobrocket]

I hope to stay here with my family for a long time. I love it here.


Well unless you work at a hogwan, the chances of your staying here for a long time in a public school are just about zero. This elimination of public school teachers has been on the agenda ever since I got here in 2008. 2014 is the cutoff and unless there is a drastic turn around in policy (new ruling party, perhaps this year?) the writing is on the wall for public schools.

So, the prospects are to find a good private school, get into a university or head off into the sunset in 2014.

Are they eleminating English from the classroom?, so if you were a resident could you not be employed the same as any other teacher/assistant/intern.
Seems to be more p/time public school positions on offer these days so could be a rainbow coming?

[jorgill]

I had heard that this was due to better training for the Korean English teachers?  Its easier for Koreans to explain complicated grammer etc than it is for waygooks who can't speak korean. 
I can't see English improving if there are fewer native speakers teaching, as it is at my Hagwon maybe only half of the teachers can hold a conversation in English.

[DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP]

OP, I'm sorry to say it but, yeah those probably were his and many other's sentiments towards us.

I used to think maybe it was my fault or I was 'Projecting' that Koreans seem uncomfortable and insecure etc with foriegners around.

Just got back from a week in Shanghai and can tell you flat out none of that sort of behaviour happens there from the locals, even in the outer zones of the city.  None of the staring, the speaking english in silly voices as a foriegner walks by, collpasing in giggles if you speak the language etc.

Get back to Korea 2 days ago and found it very obvious and palpable.

[hilarity ensues]

In don't know who had the idea to stage a protest, but it's an absolutely and profoundly ridiculously ignorant idea. I can just picture a group of inarticulate ESLers holding up signs IN ENGLISH and Koreans just saying 'SERIOUSLY???'. Anyone who comes to Korea should be at peace with the fact that you're never going to belong here, ever... and it's not going to change until Korea stops being Korea... so no one is ever going to support your right to have a job-- especially when so many young Koreans DON'T have the option to go overseas and work, not to mention the other people who are being downsized and are not only Korean citizens, but also have families.   No one is going to feel sorry for 'teachers' who have just breezed through whatever degree, only to be handed a not-so-demanding job, a free apartment, and an epic vacation...  not when they're struggling to pay their own bills!

But I have to admit, the whole 'hate us even more' thing kinda hurts... I don't need people to think I'm great, but the idea of being hated on a mass-scale, however much truth there is in it, is pretty awful.

I'd definitely prefer to stay, but in the meantime I'm going to prepare for the worst... this was never meant to be a permanent thing anyways. 

[confusedsafferinkorea]

yes, staging a protest would be a dumb thing to do. It would be nice if we could let SMOE etc, know how those of us who want to make a difference here, feel and offer them some pointers. Really, the whole NSET thing here was poorly thought through and poorly implemented.  It could have been a success if it was approached differently.


But I have to admit, the whole 'hate us even more' thing kinda hurts... I don't need people to think I'm great, but the idea of being hated on a mass-scale, however much truth there is in it, is pretty awful.

I agree, but hopefully this is not a common thought in Korea, certainly not my experience in my school anyway.

It was also interesting about DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP's comment about China, pity the attitude of some people here is so contrary to China's.  I have friends that have taught in Taiwan too and they say the same thing about them as China, they were all well received and they are willing to learn.

So sad.

[scholes]

We should all protest together, who cares what Koreans think of us. Those of us who have been long enough know by now that their perception of us will never change. The protest will at least get us some desperately needed international attention and I think that's the reason why they don't want a protest.

The world might see this country for what it really is if we do hold a protest, so we should seriously consider it.

[hilarity ensues]

We should all protest together, who cares what Koreans think of us. Those of us who have been long enough know by now that their perception of us will never change. The protest will at least get us some desperately needed international attention and I think that's the reason why they don't want a protest.

The world might see this country for what it really is if we do hold a protest, so we should seriously consider it.

1. ESL teachers don't need international attention, and they won't really get it either. But if they did, most people would probably side with the Korean government. 
2. If their perception of us will never change, then there's no point in having a protest.
3. You just sound bitter, and if you don't like Korea then why would you want to protest? So that you can stay in Korea?

You can't just protest because you're unhappy or bitter, you have to have a valid reason and a solid argument... otherwise you'll end up like this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SwKxUz7osM

[scholes]

We should all protest together, who cares what Koreans think of us. Those of us who have been long enough know by now that their perception of us will never change. The protest will at least get us some desperately needed international attention and I think that's the reason why they don't want a protest.

The world might see this country for what it really is if we do hold a protest, so we should seriously consider it.

1. ESL teachers don't need international attention, and they won't really get it either. But if they did, most people would probably side with the Korean government. 
2. If their perception of us will never change, then there's no point in having a protest.
3. You just sound bitter, and if you don't like Korea then why would you want to protest? So that you can stay in Korea?

You can't just protest because you're unhappy or bitter, you have to have a valid reason and a solid argument... otherwise you'll end up like this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SwKxUz7osM

How about protesting against their racism, their dishonesty towards us, iron clad formalized contracts, human rights law's that are not pseudo in nature. The list can go on, I still say a protest would be good

[elzoog]

http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2946533&cloc=joongangdaily|home|newslist1

Interesting paragraph, particularly the highlighted section:

“Numerous foreign English teachers in Seoul were considering holding protests or taking some form of collective action to express dissatisfaction with the new plan,” Chao said. “But an official from the education office told us that wasn’t a good idea. He said Koreans would only hate us even more.”

So by implication this government official says Koreans hate us and if we protested they would hate us even more.  I am sure he is speaking for himself and not the general Korean population, at least I hope so.

Yeah, because in the 8 years I have been in Korea, I have never seen Koreans protest anything about the United States.       

[Frozencat99]

OP, I'm sorry to say it but, yeah those probably were his and many other's sentiments towards us.

I used to think maybe it was my fault or I was 'Projecting' that Koreans seem uncomfortable and insecure etc with foriegners around.

Just got back from a week in Shanghai and can tell you flat out none of that sort of behaviour happens there from the locals, even in the outer zones of the city.  None of the staring, the speaking english in silly voices as a foriegner walks by, collpasing in giggles if you speak the language etc.

Get back to Korea 2 days ago and found it very obvious and palpable.

That's weird. I found the complete opposite when I visited Kunming, Beijing, Xi'An, and Shanghai, though I only visited each for a week. I also found the same staring, giggling, and general awareness of my presence as a foreigner in Jiangmen City and Guangzhou, where I lived for 5 months.

[elzoog]

yes, staging a protest would be a dumb thing to do.

A more rational thing to do would be to get ONE document signed by A LOT of actual qualified native speakers.   By qualified native speakers I mean

Ones that have a MA degree in TESOL, or English education with more than 2 years of teaching experience in Korea.   In other words, not BS or BA jokers like me.

Have the document state some clear, logical goals that the Korean public educational system should actually try to achieve.  For example, after studying English since grade 3, be able to understand it when an English speaker asks you "Did you have lunch yesterday?".  (I think most Korean students wouldn't understand that question).   So, maybe basic communicative competency could be a goal, but it would need to be clear and well defined.

Also have the document signed by qualified Korean teachers as well.

Then this document should be presented to ALL of the boards of education in a way that they would take it seriously.

I think the main problem isn't that the PS system hires or fires NETs.   The main problem is, they don't have a clear reason why they want to teach students English in the first place.  If they had such a goal, even a joker like me could probably think of lessons that would help achieve that goal.  But instead, we are told "teach them English" and we have to do it in a clown like fashion with no clue about why we are there, other than the pay is good.

[Peekay1982]

I hope to stay here with my family for a long time. I love it here.


Well unless you work at a hogwan, the chances of your staying here for a long time in a public school are just about zero. This elimination of public school teachers has been on the agenda ever since I got here in 2008. 2014 is the cutoff and unless there is a drastic turn around in policy (new ruling party, perhaps this year?) the writing is on the wall for public schools.

So, the prospects are to find a good private school, get into a university or head off into the sunset in 2014.

This isn't true.

People who were here before '08 will tell you they have been talking about cutting PS jobs for years before that. The old cut off was '08. Most districts are still increasing hiring. In Seoul and Gyeogi it's harder to get a job at the moment, but this isn't true for the rest of the country.

The thing is, Yi Myeong-bak had a personal belief that English education was important. Next year if the DUP are elected - the North Korea-loving, US-hating party - English education is going to get even less love.

I think the state school gravy train is grinding to a halt in Korea.

[cinamon]

Why should we protest?  They are not mistreating us or taking away our liberties.  They don't owe us a job.

[confusedsafferinkorea]

Why should we protest?  They are not mistreating us or taking away our liberties.  They don't owe us a job.

I think the consensus here is not so much a protest, but that we would like to be heard. Some of us are really lucky and have great schools and Principals, but there are some that don't and have a really rough time. They need to be heard. The main concern that we would like to 'protest' is the way English Education is handled here. At the end of the day all they want is a good score on a card for English, it matters not that they cannot string two words together, that is the crux of the matter. If the program had been run properly from day 1 then we wouldn't be 'hated'.

[hilarity ensues]

^^It kind of fits with the recent trend where simply not getting what you want is a reason to protest and cry injustice.

This sucks, but it definitely isn't an injustice… protesting this would be even lamer than what's-her-name taking out a page in the NY Times about the East Sea and Dokdo. The people involved would come off as selfish and ignorant. If it were Korean citizens protesting, then it might be a little more understandable-- this is their home. But seriously-- temporary residents protesting not being renewed???

It would be pretty easy to break up the protest-- your boss would fire you, you wouldn't be able to get another job, and if you protested again, they'd just kick you out.

I would be embarrassed for everyone involved and if anyone brought it up to me in that 'you all think alike' sort of way that Koreans bring stuff up in, I would quickly change the subject.

If you want to protest, make up a sign and find an Occupy Camp… it seems like anything goes there.

[SpaceRook]

A protest is a little silly for this issue. 

I do think that Korea in general does not understand English education from the NET's perspective. They aren't aware of the issues we face, which are:

- Poorly defined goals for English education
- Zero training for KETs and NETs about co-teaching methods and expectations
- Expecting us to teach all students, regardless of their ability
- No uniform curriculum and course materials
- No 'test incentive' for the NET classes

In my ideal world, 80% of my NET class material would be provided by some type of high-quality national curriculum that focused on speaking.  Kids would be tested against the material.  Every Korean co-teacher would understand the material, it's importance, and how it will be tested. 

The remaining 20% would be for me to use as I see fit.  I could review the required material, or add extra culture lessons if I thought the students were good enough to handle it. 

As it stands now, NET English education in Korea is a patchwork system of thousands of foreigners being used to play games, review boring and pointless textbook material, and watch movies.  Some of this is our fault and some isn't.   

[kps1]

Um. Our jobs are really easy.
-22 hours of class time a week
-Classes that aren't graded
- Some of us get total freedom in planning all our lessons
-Really long paid vacation time
-Free housing
The list goes on. I think ALT teaches working for dispatching companies in Japan should protest because that's a dirty and illegal business being overlooked there, but here? There's no reason. Being an NET isn't a career path, unless a lot of changes are made. It's more of a good place to start if you want to save money for a masters or find University work or even plan on opening up your own hagwon somewhere down the line. Fact of the matter is, we don't have graded classes and we aren't required to hold any teaching credentials. So we really don't have much room to argue unfair treatment, when our contracts are more than desirable. However, there have been some pretty weird changes to the Gangwon-do Epik program's contract. 30 days notice has changed to 60 days, you have to pay back your bonus if you quit during the year, etc. But it still is a much better program when related to other Asian countries.