Why do Koreans tell you things at the last possible minute?

[Jrong]

Seems to happen all of the time. Is it because:
A) They (your supervisors) just now found out about it themselves.
or
B) Your supervisors knew about it for a while but they don't feel like you need to know until the last minute.

Thanks.

[yeti08]

Seems to happen all of the time. Is it because:
A) They (your supervisors) just now found out about it themselves.
or
B) Your supervisors knew about it for a while but they don't feel like you need to know until the last minute.

Thanks.

It's a well known way to control people.  People don't have time to make excuses or change plans if they're told something at the last minute.  That it makes you feel smaller and less respected something many bosses aka dicks want.

[kiraaso]

Sometimes they forget to tell you.  Using google translate with my schools IM system, I found out we're going hiking.  Three days later, the day of, they tell me.  They don't think about us right away when an even comes up, unfortunately. 

Also, they may not want to tell you until they are very sure about it.  For example, they'll tell me about today's schedule changes when I come in at 8:30. 

I find that things come up suddenly for them, too.

[Squire]

I know for a fact one of my friends was told literally weeks after I was that our schools will both be losing funding for a NET next year. I was told by my co-teacher which schools would lose their foreigner and despite telling my friend and him asking his co-teacher he didn't get the news for over 2 weeks. Seems like his principle was keeping that pretty big piece of news to himself

My own co-teacher has usually been good about telling me things when she hears it, but there've been many times in the past I've suspected her of withholding information for some reason.

[unclefrank]

This happens to me all the time, I think 90% of the time, they just don't care to tell me. Sort of like a 'eh, he doesn't matter' type deal.

[DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP]

It's nothing to do with control.

They find out late and then they realise to tell us late.

In my experience it seesm the average Korean lives in a kind of perpetual present and past and future are barely taken notice of, bar the evil Japanese invaders and getting married to someone with good M / S shape and a good job.

[eggplant_tyrant]

There's also the fact that whoever's at the top of the chain reserves the right to change plans any time from when the plans are declared until 5 minutes after the even has started, so sometimes it's a matter of not wanting to tell you until absolutely necessary in case the plans change. (Having to explain something once at the last minute being preferable to explaining it five times, explaining the changes in detail, and answering questions about the changes -- why? will it change again? when will you know for sure? -- without having those answers.)

[confusedsafferinkorea]

It's nothing to do with control.

I think I have to disagree here after talking to my co-teachers as to why KT's only get told at the very last minute which will be their new school when they are due to move after 5 years.

The answer given was that before when they gave ample notice some teachers kicked up such a fuss about their new placement that now they keep them in the dark till the last minute and no time to kick up a fuss then.  I call that 'control'.

I have to agree though, that many times they fail to plan in advance and then operate off a knee-jerk reaction. (I said that once before in a posting and it was deleted, so hope that doesn't happen again). Example of this being the fact that they cannot plan the English Camps at the beginning of the academic year so everyone knows what is going on. Simple, but they seem not to want to do it.

[Frozencat99]

It's nothing to do with control.

I think I have to disagree here after talking to my co-teachers as to why KT's only get told at the very last minute which will be their new school when they are due to move after 5 years.

The answer given was that before when they gave ample notice some teachers kicked up such a fuss about their new placement that now they keep them in the dark till the last minute and no time to kick up a fuss then.  I call that 'control'.

I have to agree though, that many times they fail to plan in advance and then operate off a knee-jerk reaction. (I said that once before in a posting and it was deleted, so hope that doesn't happen again). Example of this being the fact that they cannot plan the English Camps at the beginning of the academic year so everyone knows what is going on. Simple, but they seem not to want to do it.

That is one example of crowd-control but that doesn't really mean every other time was about control.

At my school, a lot of planning is done rather last minute because people seem to hate having plans disrupted. The winter camp schedule is not set at the beginning of the year, for us, because funding issues can and do happen. We started planning for a two week consecutive winter camp that included grade 4-6, but midway through the planning week, the pipes for the second and third floors of school burst. Since funding was needed for it to be fixed, camp was changed to one grade 5 and 6 camp before holidays, one grade 3 and 4 afterward, because they'd have more funding available.

It also depends on how high your co-teacher is in your school's social hierarchy. If they're low, you're lower (regardless of what qualifications you can tout), and you'll both find out late into the game. I've been told about schedule changes for classes 5 minutes after that class was supposed to start. Its annoying, sure, but the best method of preparation is to plan for your plans to fall through. That way you'll never be blindsided.

[orangeman]

It's nothing to do with control.

I think I have to disagree here after talking to my co-teachers as to why KT's only get told at the very last minute which will be their new school when they are due to move after 5 years.

The answer given was that before when they gave ample notice some teachers kicked up such a fuss about their new placement that now they keep them in the dark till the last minute and no time to kick up a fuss then.  I call that 'control'.

I have to agree though, that many times they fail to plan in advance and then operate off a knee-jerk reaction. (I said that once before in a posting and it was deleted, so hope that doesn't happen again). Example of this being the fact that they cannot plan the English Camps at the beginning of the academic year so everyone knows what is going on. Simple, but they seem not to want to do it.

That is one example of crowd-control but that doesn't really mean every other time was about control.

At my school, a lot of planning is done rather last minute because people seem to hate having plans disrupted. The winter camp schedule is not set at the beginning of the year, for us, because funding issues can and do happen. We started planning for a two week consecutive winter camp that included grade 4-6, but midway through the planning week, the pipes for the second and third floors of school burst. Since funding was needed for it to be fixed, camp was changed to one grade 5 and 6 camp before holidays, one grade 3 and 4 afterward, because they'd have more funding available.

It also depends on how high your co-teacher is in your school's social hierarchy. If they're low, you're lower (regardless of what qualifications you can tout), and you'll both find out late into the game. I've been told about schedule changes for classes 5 minutes after that class was supposed to start. Its annoying, sure, but the best method of preparation is to plan for your plans to fall through. That way you'll never be blindsided.

I see what you mean, but don't pipes burst in every other country, too?  Don't plans fall through for everyone else around the world?  Then why is it such a Korean trait to do everything last minute?  I'm not picking on you Frozencat, but as a planner I've heard all the excuses over the years and none of them add up. 

Every workplace I've had here seems to have this trait and every foreigner here has noticed it too, so I don't think we can chalk it up to certain individuals at one person's school.  Without going into detais, I think we can see that it at least has something to do with why on average Korea has one of the lowest productivity rates in the developed world (hours worked vs work produced).  Often things don't get done unless a fire is lit under someone's butt, and then that person runs around like a chicken with it's head cut off.  Which brings us to the fact that often times appearances are valued more than substance here.  It's better to run around last minute in front of the boss to show what a good worker you are instead of having it done and just handing him the report.  He'll think you have too much time on your hands and the work wasn't challenging enough.  I have experienced this first hand, often times being called lazy for having things ready in advance and not a good teacher for keeping a neat desk.  Finally, I do have to agree that it is about power.  Whether we want to say people will withold information to keep power from you, or that others delay action because those on the top can change their will at a drop of a hat, it is still about power.  And we all know what role power plays in Korean Confucism, especially in the workplace.

[kyndo]

...Every workplace I've had here seems to have this trait and every foreigner here has noticed it too, so I don't think we can chalk it up to certain individuals at one person's school...

Yeah, the last minute thing is very common, and pretty annoying, and probably happens for a number of reasons, including what the above posters have mentioned.
And while I agree that it seems to happen far more frequently here in Korea than in many other places, I think that as foreigners, we are more sensitive to it than we normally would be back at home.
Because of the whole language thing, I like to have everything planned out for my lessons, my day trip and holidays etc etc. When something happens to interrupt those plans, its a bigger deal, and so I notice it a lot more than at home.
Also, because I can't read Korean very well, the inter school memo system is useless to me, as are all the handouts I get, and the Monday morning staff meetings in the office. I feel that people just sometimes forget that I don't know whats going on despite all of that due to my horrible horrible illiteracy.

Chances are, someof those changes that seem so very last moment in reality weren't.

[DejaVu]

There are three definite reasons:

1.) The supervisors are also informed last minute.
2.) Power/Control
3.) I have read somewhere that Korean culture dictates that you should not downgrade someones good mood until an approopriate time (or until the end of the day/last minute).  I doubt many Koreans consciously follow this, but perhaps it has been ingrained in some level.  Or maybe what I read was just complete BS.

[kboyjames]

As a Korean/American i've noticed this about the Koreans here and i'm sure that you guys have picked up on this as well.. Koreans lack a little thing called "common courtesy"..... I mean it's not like it's not there but just much lower than some of the other places in the world that i've experienced.  Take the subway lines and bus lines for example.  We all know it's common sense to wait behind the person who was there before you.. Naturally, you get behind them and wait.. NOPE NOT HERE.... if you're not up front and center and at full attention, if you leave any ounce of space, someone will slide in and kinda "push" their way in... HELLO???!!!!! I HAVE HERE FIRST!!!!!!! SHEESH1!!!!! How about even walking in a crowded area?? You get bumped, pushed, elbowed and not a SINGLE person says "excuse me" or "i'm sorry" I am and look Korean, and speak both languages fluently, but for you guys that don't look and speak their ways i can imagine it's rough.  Korean STARE like you guys are aliens from outter space. WHAT?? DO I HAVE SOMETHING GROWING ON MY FACE???!!!!... This society is based on the individual. Everyone is out for themselves and who can blame them? Look at the size of this country in contrast with the population. Still, it would be nice to occasionally know that my people aren't complete numbskulls when it comes to common sense.

[kboyjames]

As for this topic, i would say its the lack of common courtesy and common sense to tell us teachers about things.  To their eyes, we just aren't that important. We're the "foreign" people in their country. They do as they please and not worry about us. 

[confusedsafferinkorea]

As a Korean/American i've noticed this about the Koreans here and i'm sure that you guys have picked up on this as well.. Koreans lack a little thing called "common courtesy"..... I mean it's not like it's not there but just much lower than some of the other places in the world that i've experienced.  Take the subway lines and bus lines for example.  We all know it's common sense to wait behind the person who was there before you.. Naturally, you get behind them and wait.. NOPE NOT HERE.... if you're not up front and center and at full attention, if you leave any ounce of space, someone will slide in and kinda "push" their way in... HELLO???!!!!! I HAVE HERE FIRST!!!!!!! SHEESH1!!!!! How about even walking in a crowded area?? You get bumped, pushed, elbowed and not a SINGLE person says "excuse me" or "i'm sorry" I am and look Korean, and speak both languages fluently, but for you guys that don't look and speak their ways i can imagine it's rough.  Korean STARE like you guys are aliens from outter space. WHAT?? DO I HAVE SOMETHING GROWING ON MY FACE???!!!!... This society is based on the individual. Everyone is out for themselves and who can blame them? Look at the size of this country in contrast with the population. Still, it would be nice to occasionally know that my people aren't complete numbskulls when it comes to common sense.

Well perhaps I would have said this more gently, but I agree with most of it. I have been here three years and have noticed the lack of courtesy especially on the subways and on the pavements, it is the survival of the fittest.  I try to be a gentleman at all times and some people treat me with disdain but just every now and then I get a big smile and thank you from a Korean lady, followed by 'you are a gentleman'.

I think perhaps Korean ladies should take it upon themselves to 'educate' the men here to be more gentlemanly.

Of course not all are like that so let's not generalise too much, but there is certainly a significant amount that are, especially here in Seoul.

I told my co-teachers once that I find it hard to believe that the sweet, kind people I see inside buildings, shops, schools etc undergo a personality change once they hit the subway and streets..      We all had a good laugh and they actually agreed with me.

Guess it is like the people in my home country, lovely people but don't put them behind the wheel of a car, then they undergo this transformation and become monsters....    (Well some of them). 

[Frozencat99]

...Every workplace I've had here seems to have this trait and every foreigner here has noticed it too, so I don't think we can chalk it up to certain individuals at one person's school...

Yeah, the last minute thing is very common, and pretty annoying, and probably happens for a number of reasons, including what the above posters have mentioned.
And while I agree that it seems to happen far more frequently here in Korea than in many other places, I think that as foreigners, we are more sensitive to it than we normally would be back at home.
Because of the whole language thing, I like to have everything planned out for my lessons, my day trip and holidays etc etc. When something happens to interrupt those plans, its a bigger deal, and so I notice it a lot more than at home.
Also, because I can't read Korean very well, the inter school memo system is useless to me, as are all the handouts I get, and the Monday morning staff meetings in the office. I feel that people just sometimes forget that I don't know whats going on despite all of that due to my horrible horrible illiteracy.

Chances are, someof those changes that seem so very last moment in reality weren't.

This is really well put.

[daveb]

As a Korean/American i've noticed this about the Koreans here and i'm sure that you guys have picked up on this as well.. Koreans lack a little thing called "common courtesy"..... I mean it's not like it's not there but just much lower than some of the other places in the world that i've experienced.  Take the subway lines and bus lines for example.  We all know it's common sense to wait behind the person who was there before you.. Naturally, you get behind them and wait.. NOPE NOT HERE.... if you're not up front and center and at full attention, if you leave any ounce of space, someone will slide in and kinda "push" their way in... HELLO???!!!!! I HAVE HERE FIRST!!!!!!! SHEESH1!!!!! How about even walking in a crowded area?? You get bumped, pushed, elbowed and not a SINGLE person says "excuse me" or "i'm sorry" I am and look Korean, and speak both languages fluently, but for you guys that don't look and speak their ways i can imagine it's rough.  Korean STARE like you guys are aliens from outter space. WHAT?? DO I HAVE SOMETHING GROWING ON MY FACE???!!!!... This society is based on the individual. Everyone is out for themselves and who can blame them? Look at the size of this country in contrast with the population. Still, it would be nice to occasionally know that my people aren't complete numbskulls when it comes to common sense.

It seems I am pointing out the obvious - Korea is not a society based on the individual. It is a collectivist society. There is a polarity between the East/West when it comes to conceptions of the self and others. This implies that Korean people are not necessarily worried about your individual feelings on a given matter. Whether that is examplified by stopping in front of you in the subway or not telling you about something until the last mintue. It's not because some Koreans are intrinsically rude, it's just they have been brought up around totally different conceptions of the self, the individual and what it means to be part of the group.

I would agree there might be other context-dependent reasons for not telling us something until the last minute, as pointed out by previous posters. I too, have been on the frustrating side of this regarding last mintue news and being shoved on the bus, et. It's just I've heard this general point about Korean social behaviour and their lack of courtesy towards others made by NETs many times before. But simply remember - Koreans are fundamentally different to us culturally and they often (but not always) think differently to westerners.  Definitions of things related to this point are classified in local (Korean) terms, not by our expectations or conceptions of what is right or normal in our native culture.

 

[Frozencat99]

As a Korean/American i've noticed this about the Koreans here and i'm sure that you guys have picked up on this as well.. Koreans lack a little thing called "common courtesy"..... I mean it's not like it's not there but just much lower than some of the other places in the world that i've experienced.  Take the subway lines and bus lines for example.  We all know it's common sense to wait behind the person who was there before you.. Naturally, you get behind them and wait.. NOPE NOT HERE.... if you're not up front and center and at full attention, if you leave any ounce of space, someone will slide in and kinda "push" their way in... HELLO???!!!!! I HAVE HERE FIRST!!!!!!! SHEESH1!!!!! How about even walking in a crowded area?? You get bumped, pushed, elbowed and not a SINGLE person says "excuse me" or "i'm sorry" I am and look Korean, and speak both languages fluently, but for you guys that don't look and speak their ways i can imagine it's rough.  Korean STARE like you guys are aliens from outter space. WHAT?? DO I HAVE SOMETHING GROWING ON MY FACE???!!!!... This society is based on the individual. Everyone is out for themselves and who can blame them? Look at the size of this country in contrast with the population. Still, it would be nice to occasionally know that my people aren't complete numbskulls when it comes to common sense.

It seems I am pointing out the obvious - Korea is not a society based on the individual. It is a collectivist society. There is a polarity between the East/West when it comes to conceptions of the self and others. This implies that Korean people are not necessarily worried about your individual feelings on a given matter. Whether that is examplified by stopping in front of you in the subway or not telling you until about something until the last mintue. It's not because Koreans are rude (they are not), it's just they have been brought up around totally different conceptions of self, the individual and what it means to be part of the group.

I agree there might be other context-dependant reasons for not telling us something until the last minute, as pointed out by previous posters.

I suppose i've heard this general point about Korean behaviour and their lack of courtesy many times before. I too, have been on the frustrating side of this regarding last mintue news and being shoved on the bus. But we are not Koreans. They often think differently to westerners.  Definitions of things related to this point are defined in local terms - not by our expectations or conceptions of what is right or normal.

I've seen people complain about how rude Koreans are because they don't say "bless you" (or an equivalent)... its sad how readily some people dismiss logic when given the opportunity to lash out emotionally.

[confusedsafferinkorea]

daveb, this is not a comment bringing doubt onto what you said and I quote:

It's not because some Koreans are intrinsically rude, it's just they have been brought up around totally different conceptions of the self, the individual and what it means to be part of the group.

I just need some clarification on how they are brought up to think that it is not necessary to wait in a line etc in terms of being a group rather than an individual?

I hope it isn't seen as a stupid question, I would really like to know the thought behind this.  In my context being part of a group means caring for other individual members, even to the point of putting them first before myself. How do Koreans see this 'being part of a group and the workings thereof?

[yeti08]

daveb, this is not a comment bringing doubt onto what you said and I quote:

It's not because some Koreans are intrinsically rude, it's just they have been brought up around totally different conceptions of the self, the individual and what it means to be part of the group.

I just need some clarification on how they are brought up to think that it is not necessary to wait in a line etc in terms of being a group rather than an individual?

I hope it isn't seen as a stupid question, I would really like to know the thought behind this.  In my context being part of a group means caring for other individual members, even to the point of putting them first before myself. How do Koreans see this 'being part of a group and the workings thereof?

This.  This also confuses me when I hear it.  I've been told this by both Korean friends and Korean adult students.  I don't get how a society that is raised to be communal end up being so individualistic.  I really would like a good explanation.  Also I have found this to be much more true in the Seoul/Incheon/Anyang Metro area.  I understand the population density, but that's not it.  Not calling Daveb out either, just truly curious.