Koreans worry about possible immigrant riots

[Peekay1982]

I don't think you understand the meaning behind a cultural mosaic. You are mixing it up with a 'melting pot'.  The purpose is that people can be different, hence there is differences. A "China town" is encouraged in a cultural mosaic. Do you mean discrimination is still existent? - because saying someone is "Chinese" is not discrimination. Obviously there is discrimination in Canada...

If the Muslims in England were demanding that they bulldoze St Paul's Cathedral and raise a new mosque, then yeah, that's rather unreasonable, but if they're asking the government to build them Muslim schools that teach their own religion and their own language, and if they're paying enough taxes to justify that, then I think that's fair. Maybe they could bulldoze some slums and put something nice in there instead.

Nothing is more obnoxious than the whole 'this is our land, it belongs to us now you had better respect that, abandon your inferior ways and be more like us' attitude… it's like something that only the worst right-wing d-bags in the world believe-- and it's even worse when they're Americans or Canadians, considering how our countries came to exist...

The problem is that now the UK is becoming a dual society. There are parts of some English cities and towns where Muslims - or people of South Asian or Arab appearance, really - aren't welcome. Equally there are parts of those same towns and cities where white people aren't welcome.

There has to be some kind of push towards (partial) assimilation and integration (anywhere). Otherwise you just end up with suspicious, mutually hostile communities living next to each other with a great deal of tension.

[hilarity ensues]

The problem is that now the UK is becoming a dual society. There are parts of some English cities and towns where Muslims - or people of South Asian or Arab appearance, really - aren't welcome. Equally there are parts of those same towns and cities where white people aren't welcome.

There has to be some kind of push towards (partial) assimilation and integration (anywhere). Otherwise you just end up with suspicious, mutually hostile communities living next to each other with a great deal of tension.

I'll admit that there are definitely problems when it's a single minority moving in as opposed to a lot of different minorities-- and if it were me, I would definitely be more comfortable with a lot of different minorities instead, because then they would HAVE to speak English, they wouldn't be able to form familiar friendships and practice their strange weird messed-up customs that offend and annoy me, they wouldn't be empowered enough to act like they would be acting as if they were back home in Muslim-land, and would be more inclined to sort of fall in line with the white majority… but look at what I just typed out and tell me if you really think that's an enlightened and intelligent line of thought. 

Really, it sounds to me like the biggest problem is intolerance… and I don't believe that anyone should have to change to accommodate someone else's intolerance-- it should be the intolerance that changes.

And to be honest, if you've lived in Korea for years without ever becoming fluent in the language, experiencing the culture beyond a few things you've read online (plus your own speculation), or ever really talking to non-English speakers to the point where you've bonded beyond the superficialities…. then yeah, I think it's pretty hypocritical to start bashing the immigrants in your home country without even taking the time to try to understand why they might be behaving the way they do, and just chalking it up to being hateful and 'alien'.

[woman-king]

I don't think you understand the meaning behind a cultural mosaic. You are mixing it up with a 'melting pot'.  The purpose is that people can be different, hence there is differences. A "China town" is encouraged in a cultural mosaic. Do you mean discrimination is still existent? - because saying someone is "Chinese" is not discrimination. Obviously there is discrimination in Canada...

If the Muslims in England were demanding that they bulldoze St Paul's Cathedral and raise a new mosque, then yeah, that's rather unreasonable, but if they're asking the government to build them Muslim schools that teach their own religion and their own language, and if they're paying enough taxes to justify that, then I think that's fair. Maybe they could bulldoze some slums and put something nice in there instead.

Nothing is more obnoxious than the whole 'this is our land, it belongs to us now you had better respect that, abandon your inferior ways and be more like us' attitude… it's like something that only the worst right-wing d-bags in the world believe-- and it's even worse when they're Americans or Canadians, considering how our countries came to exist...

The problem is that now the UK is becoming a dual society. There are parts of some English cities and towns where Muslims - or people of South Asian or Arab appearance, really - aren't welcome. Equally there are parts of those same towns and cities where white people aren't welcome.

There has to be some kind of push towards (partial) assimilation and integration (anywhere). Otherwise you just end up with suspicious, mutually hostile communities living next to each other with a great deal of tension.

Yeah, this is what I've heard and that sounds like an honest and nonjudgmental assessment of things.  Better to recognize and address potential future problems than pretend they don't exist.  Again, if Korea ever does have a population of southeast Asian workers as significant as the UK's Muslim communities, I'm sure you'd see a similar situation.  I get the concern about communities losing their culture if forced to assimilate into a wider culture to gain acceptance and jobs and such, and from this concern we've gotten the mosaic model as opposed to the melting-pot one.  but there has to be some breaching of barriers for different cultures to coexist peacefully and productively. 

 . . . but for that to happen, people on both sides have to be willing to make it happen.  That's the thing.  I think Koreans fear immigrant riots at least partly because most Koreans know perfectly well how excluded most foreigners--particularly, again, the southeast Asian workers--are in their society.  And I don't believe the exclusion happens because Korean society has a massive level of concern for the loss of Filippino or Indonesian or Pakistani cultural traditions among immigrants from those countries in South Korea, either.  It happens because I think the majority of them don't want to live in a multicultural society--or they're very selective about what other groups should be allowed to exist alongside them. 

Ultimately it's their country and their call and I don't want to impose my own cultural standards on Korea, but honestly, knowing their (general) preference for a single-ethnicity nation is one reason why I'll be happy to return to the States at the end of this contract. 

[hilarity ensues]

It happens because I think the majority of them don't want to live in a multicultural society--or they're very selective about what other groups should be allowed to exist alongside them. 

And they're afraid of a country where they don't get to treat poorly paid workers like dirt, or where there are enough poorly paid workers for the government to have to listen to their demands.

And you know what happens once the government has to start worrying about social inequality-- labour unions, affirmative action, feminism… all of that junk. It's too horrifying to even think about. Red light districts will begin to close. Qualified women will start making more money than unqualified men. Pure-blooded students will be taught that the half-Korean half-Uzbekistani kid in their class is just as much of a person as they are.

We definitely can't have that!

[Peekay1982]

I don't think you understand the meaning behind a cultural mosaic. You are mixing it up with a 'melting pot'.  The purpose is that people can be different, hence there is differences. A "China town" is encouraged in a cultural mosaic. Do you mean discrimination is still existent? - because saying someone is "Chinese" is not discrimination. Obviously there is discrimination in Canada...

If the Muslims in England were demanding that they bulldoze St Paul's Cathedral and raise a new mosque, then yeah, that's rather unreasonable, but if they're asking the government to build them Muslim schools that teach their own religion and their own language, and if they're paying enough taxes to justify that, then I think that's fair. Maybe they could bulldoze some slums and put something nice in there instead.

Nothing is more obnoxious than the whole 'this is our land, it belongs to us now you had better respect that, abandon your inferior ways and be more like us' attitude… it's like something that only the worst right-wing d-bags in the world believe-- and it's even worse when they're Americans or Canadians, considering how our countries came to exist...

The problem is that now the UK is becoming a dual society. There are parts of some English cities and towns where Muslims - or people of South Asian or Arab appearance, really - aren't welcome. Equally there are parts of those same towns and cities where white people aren't welcome.

There has to be some kind of push towards (partial) assimilation and integration (anywhere). Otherwise you just end up with suspicious, mutually hostile communities living next to each other with a great deal of tension.

Ultimately it's their country and their call and I don't want to impose my own cultural standards on Korea, but honestly, knowing their (general) preference for a single-ethnicity nation is one reason why I'll be happy to return to the States at the end of this contract.

I find lots of the Koreans I know to be generally racist but specifically tolerant. They'll tell me all about the terrible things foreigners are doing in their country - then tell me that I'm different, that I'm a nice person. It doesn't really bother me  - I think it's funny, actually - as I understand they don't have any experience of living alongside people from other cultures, but I can see how such attitudes could cause/exacerbate problems as immigrants populations continue to grow.

I suppose I'd feel differently about this topic if I was working in a difficult job for long hours with low pay, rather than my current cushy number.

[pcunit2009]

The problem is that now the UK is becoming a dual society. There are parts of some English cities and towns where Muslims - or people of South Asian or Arab appearance, really - aren't welcome. Equally there are parts of those same towns and cities where white people aren't welcome.

There has to be some kind of push towards (partial) assimilation and integration (anywhere). Otherwise you just end up with suspicious, mutually hostile communities living next to each other with a great deal of tension.

I'm just wondering, where are you from in the UK?

I'm a white, blue eyed blonde haired male from Leicester. Growing up in Leicester my school was 60% (South) Asian, with my class-mates coming from a wide mix of Hindu, Islamic and Sikh backgrounds.

There was barely any racism in our school, whilst there were sometimes cultural differences, for most people ethnicity was not a big issue. Pretty much everybody I know (White, Black, Muslim or Hindu) doesn't care about skin colour or religion, the individuals personality is far more important. The only group that people do have an issue with are the Islamic Extremists (for good reason) but everybody has a problem with them. The vast majority of Muslims despise them more than we do, for they have suffered the most from their actions. And most people in Leicester (at least, I expect most places) are well aware that most Muslims are not terrorists, and that they just want to live a happy, normal and free life. If they want to socialise and live amongst people who have similar beliefs and come from a similar culture, then why can't they?

I'm not proclaiming Leicester to be a utopian cultural melting pot, and of course there are idiots and issues, but I disagree with the idea that there is limited integration in Britain. Even if some areas are predominantly Asian and others white, the majority of people shop in the same stores, use the same buses, go to the same schools and hospitals and work in the same offices. Most people are way past caring about ethnicity, religion or cultural background.

Perhaps in places like London, there are greater issues with the gangs and no go-areas so to speak, but I don't believe it boils down to ethnicity or religion on the whole. They'll still nick your mobile phone and Ipod come what may regardless of whether you're European, Brazilian or Pakistani.

The UK is far from perfect (as some of the recent youtube clips have highlighted) but as far as Multi-Culturalism goes, at this stage I'd say the UK is a world leader. We're certainly doing better than the French (although that's not exactly an achievement). The riots in the summer had nothing to do with race. We've come a long way since the early 80's.

As for Koreans, they're just a little bit uninformed and sheltered in general. A less polite term is 'ignorant'. It's quite understandable given they've not had the exposure that so many of us self-righteous foreigners have had to other cultures. I've met plenty of (young-ish) Koreans who have told me about the discrimination of South-East Asians in Korea, how terrible it is and how they hope it changes. Even some of my middle school students in rural northern Gangwon-Do have tried to tell me about it.

Once the Ajummas and Ajoshis start dying off, (much in the same way as our grandparents did) perceptions, attitudes and society will change vastly and Koreans will not appear to be quite so 'naive' / 'ignorant' to so many of us foreign teachers. I think there's lots of hope for the future.

I've also still yet to see public toilets and restaurants segregated by skin colour...!!!

Considering how we sometimes portray Koreans, they've never been quite as backward and ignorant as us (meaning Caucasians) have they?!?!?!

[Peekay1982]

I'm just wondering, where are you from in the UK?

I'm a white, blue eyed blonde haired male from Leicester. Growing up in Leicester my school was 60% (South) Asian, with my class-mates coming from a wide mix of Hindu, Islamic and Sikh backgrounds.

There was barely any racism in our school, whilst there were sometimes cultural differences, for most people ethnicity was not a big issue. Pretty much everybody I know (White, Black, Muslim or Hindu) doesn't care about skin colour or religion, the individuals personality is far more important. The only group that people do have an issue with are the Islamic Extremists (for good reason) but everybody has a problem with them. The vast majority of Muslims despise them more than we do, for they have suffered the most from their actions. And most people in Leicester (at least, I expect most places) are well aware that most Muslims are not terrorists, and that they just want to live a happy, normal and free life. If they want to socialise and live amongst people who have similar beliefs and come from a similar culture, then why can't they?

I'm not proclaiming Leicester to be a utopian cultural melting pot, and of course there are idiots and issues, but I disagree with the idea that there is limited integration in Britain. Even if some areas are predominantly Asian and others white, the majority of people shop in the same stores, use the same buses, go to the same schools and hospitals and work in the same offices.

Oldham. White people walking around certain parts of Glodwick will get hassled (at the least). Equally I know people from my part of Oldham - vile morons, but they exist - who will proudly talk about beating up any "Pakis" who stray onto their estates. I haven't lived there for years (thankfully?) and probably as a man approaching 30 I'd have less to worry about then being a teenager or young man.

Rochdale, Burnley, Preston and Blackburn too are very highly segregated.

I've never actually been to Leicester! I loved Adrian Mole when I was a kid, I should make a pilgrimage one of these days.

I agree with you that most people live fairly happily across the UK with people from other cultural background. I don't want to paint the UK as a dystopian race-war pressure-keg, but problems do exist.

Most people are way past caring about ethnicity, religion or cultural background.

I'm not sure about this at all. I know a depressing number of people who have pretty racist/xenophobic attitudes.

[pcunit2009]

Oldham. White people walking around certain parts of Glodwick will get hassled (at the least). Equally I know people from my part of Oldham - vile morons, but they exist - who will proudly talk about beating up any "Pakis" who stray onto their estates. I haven't lived there for years (thankfully?) and probably as a man approaching 30 I'd have less to worry about then being a teenager or young man.

Rochdale, Burnley, Preston and Blackburn too are very highly segregated.

Fair play. I actually contemplated mentioning Oldham, Bradford and such places as a possible exception to my point. But I didn't.

I've never visited any of them (Except Ewood Park for an FA Cup Quarter Final), but I've heard about the issues there.

I've never actually been to Leicester! I loved Adrian Mole when I was a kid, I should make a pilgrimage one of these days.

I don't recommend a visit to Leicester, there's nothing to see! But it's not a bad place, with regard to multi-culturalism at least. We're not just famous for Adrian Mole and Sue Townsend, we also blessed the world with the Attenborough brothers, Kasabian, Gary Lineker and Emile Heskey....

Most people are way past caring about ethnicity, religion or cultural background.


I'm not sure about this at all. I know a depressing number of people who have pretty racist/xenophobic attitudes.

There's plenty of small-minded idiots about (Likewise I know of a few in Leicester), and of course you'll find higher concentrations of them in certain areas dependent on where you are. However, I think these are certainly in the minority (as a proportion of the general population). The number of votes cast for the BNP in the recent elections speaks volumes. 95% of the UKs population has no time for their Xenophobia, what-so-ever. Even the EDL (who campaign primarily against Islamic extremism) have little public support.

Fair? Or agree to disagree?

[Peekay1982]

I've never actually been to Leicester! I loved Adrian Mole when I was a kid, I should make a pilgrimage one of these days.

I don't recommend a visit to Leicester, there's nothing to see! But it's not a bad place, with regard to multi-culturalism at least. We're not just famous for Adrian Mole and Sue Townsend, we also blessed the world with the Attenborough brothers, Kasabian, Gary Lineker and Emile Heskey....

Heskey?!? Cheers for that one... Walkers crisps, though - that's something to be proud of.

There's plenty of small-minded idiots about (Likewise I know of a few in Leicester), and of course you'll find higher concentrations of them in certain areas dependent on where you are. However, I think these are certainly in the minority (as a proportion of the general population). The number of votes cast for the BNP in the recent elections speaks volumes. 95% of the UKs population has no time for their Xenophobia, what-so-ever. Even the EDL (who campaign primarily against Islamic extremism) have little public support.

Fair? Or agree to disagree?

Yeah, agree. It was pretty heartening to see the public response to some of the recent racist incidents in the news - that silly bint on the tram in Croydon was basically shouted down by everyone (and is now facing criminal charges); Luis Suarez is, I think, more of a hothead who didn't understand UK attitudes to racial abuse, rather than a super-racist uber-Nazi, but he's been roundly vilifed and professionally sanctioned. And Scousers enjoy being victims of unfairness so they're happy too. If John Terry is found guilty he'll be condemned, too. Everyone hates him (including me) but I'm not convinced he'd say what he's been accused of saying. It's gonna come down to his word against Anton Ferdinand's. That Tory MP lost his job over being at that Nazi-themed stag do, as well.

[pcunit2009]

Walkers crisps, though - that's something to be proud of.

I can't believe I forgot that!

Yeah, agree. It was pretty heartening to see the public response to some of the recent racist incidents in the news - that silly bint on the tram in Croydon was basically shouted down by everyone (and is now facing criminal charges); Luis Suarez is, I think, more of a hothead who didn't understand UK attitudes to racial abuse, rather than a super-racist uber-Nazi, but he's been roundly vilifed and professionally sanctioned. And Scousers enjoy being victims of unfairness so they're happy too. If John Terry is found guilty he'll be condemned, too. Everyone hates him (including me) but I'm not convinced he'd say what he's been accused of saying. It's gonna come down to his word against Anton Ferdinand's. That Tory MP lost his job over being at that Nazi-themed stag do, as well.

Agreed.

[madison79]

Doesn't this fall under the blanket opinion.  "Foreigners are bad, mkkay!"  What country doesn't have people who worry about this?  Those people are bad because they were born in a different part of the world and don't look exactly like me. 
Can we stop posting this stuff?

If a local rag can publish a story like this, why can't we comment? Just asking.

In fact when they stop publish stories like this, then we can cease to comment.

If you're going to stay here longer than a year it's best, imo, to not let these get to you.  Nothing we say or do on these forum will change this persons thoughts.  Also, feels like every week we have 2 threads about us bad waygooks and what not.  Feels a little beaten to death.  Could just be me. 

[Frozencat99]

Doesn't this fall under the blanket opinion.  "Foreigners are bad, mkkay!"  What country doesn't have people who worry about this?  Those people are bad because they were born in a different part of the world and don't look exactly like me. 
Can we stop posting this stuff?

If a local rag can publish a story like this, why can't we comment? Just asking.

In fact when they stop publish stories like this, then we can cease to comment.

If you're going to stay here longer than a year it's best, imo, to not let these get to you.  Nothing we say or do on these forum will change this persons thoughts.  Also, feels like every week we have 2 threads about us bad waygooks and what not.  Feels a little beaten to death.  Could just be me.

If you look between the "why do Koreans do x" and "here's another article about xenophobia" topics that pop up, you can sometimes find a good discussion topic. Sometimes.

[madison79]

Doesn't this fall under the blanket opinion.  "Foreigners are bad, mkkay!"  What country doesn't have people who worry about this?  Those people are bad because they were born in a different part of the world and don't look exactly like me. 
Can we stop posting this stuff?

If a local rag can publish a story like this, why can't we comment? Just asking.

In fact when they stop publish stories like this, then we can cease to comment.

If you're going to stay here longer than a year it's best, imo, to not let these get to you.  Nothing we say or do on these forum will change this persons thoughts.  Also, feels like every week we have 2 threads about us bad waygooks and what not.  Feels a little beaten to death.  Could just be me.

If you look between the "why do Koreans do x" and "here's another article about xenophobia" topics that pop up, you can sometimes find a good discussion topic. Sometimes.

You do but really it turns to be more us complaining and nothing gets fixed.  Every nation has concerns about non citizens.