Author Topic: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety  (Read 1865 times)

Offline jenmur

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Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« on: January 23, 2012, 10:35:03 pm »
This is a heads-up for Bucheon/ Incheon area folk. There seems to be some obnoxious vigilante lurking around, whose apparent goal is to instigate foreign English teachers into breaching terms of their contracts and visas.

On Saturday 21st January, I met some friends in Seoul. We parted around 10.30pm at the station, each taking a different train. I changed at Sindorim and while waiting for the train had the strangest and most frightening experience I have had in Korea. I was approached by an ahjussi, smartly dressed wearing a wool coat, blue jeans and smart dress shoes. He was around 5’11”, medium-build, late 40s- early 50s, fair skinned with some freckles, and short tidy hair. His English level was perhaps High-Int. to Upp. Int. with good American pronunciation. He looked average, perhaps like how many of your students’ fathers look on their day off.

He seemed keen to practice his English and I allowed him to rattle on at first, giving very simple answers to his questions.  He went through the usual rigmarole of questions that as a foreigners we are regularly subjected to: Do you like Korea? How long have you been in Korea? Can you speak/ read Korean? What do you do? Where are you from? etc. At this point I found no reason to lie and just answered simply. However, for every answer I had he seemed keen to contradict me and impart his superior knowledge on the subject: I couldn’t read Korean, because I do not understand the science behind what it takes to read (I’ll spare you the details); I wasn’t from the UK, clearly I’m a New Yorker (he got really agitated at this, so any snooping he had done had proved false-ha!), he explained that yes perhaps my DNA is Scottish but I was certainly from New York; perhaps I got my job because my background was ‘so superior and wonderfully good’ (whoever said that Koreans couldn’t master sarcasm need to meet this guy); and lastly being a teacher is a terrible ‘nasty’ job – I should consider being a journalist. This here was the clincher, he was intent in getting me to agree to extra work writing for an English magazine. I told him straight that I wasn’t interested in being a writer, that I had neither the talent nor the interest.

Now at this point, I should have walked far away but that would be admitting defeat. The train came and I purposely positioned myself away from him (but obviously in a non-defeatist kind of way.)  He called me over by my name, twice. At which point tiny little alarm bells started to ring in my head. I couldn’t recollect giving him my name. I judged that I must’ve done since he called it so confidently. He wanted me to stand away from the doors and closer to him. I pulled out my phone and looked busy, ignoring him. He came over and started talking again. He asked where I lived – I lied. I spoke loudly in the hope that he would sod off. It didn’t work, he asked me to speak quieter, he then held out his hand to shake mine. I didn’t remove my glove and he recoiled his hand like he was about to be bitten by a viper and his face twisted in disgust.  I felt obligated by the many pairs of eyes in the busy train to remove my glove and shake his hand. His name was David. He then asked mine, cue alarm bells. I told him twice that I had given him my name and both times he said that I had not. At which point I told him that he knew my name, that he had called it twice. Apparently, he had guessed. It isn’t feasible to assume that someone can randomly guess someone’s name, and even if they did they wouldn’t utter it so definitely or unquestionably; he must have known my name; how did he know my name? I interrogated him. He tried to convince me that he guessed, that Jennifer is a common name, I could’ve also been called M. Now what is interesting about this is I have a friend called M, who is actually from New York. My initial thoughts are that this guy is a weird stalker and he has his information crossed. My face must have given way to my thoughts and he flustered another name – Jessica. He continued tossing around these names while no doubt trying to dig around the recesses of his malevolent mind but alas this pathetic little group, few in numbers, ended in a mighty crescendo of …an etc. He couldn’t even lie well – malevolent and feeble minded. 

He sighs in relief and then points to the doors “this is your stop, your getting off now.” I had lied about where I lived, so not only did he know my name, possibly my friend’s name but he also knew where I lived. 

I ran out the doors, up the stairs and called a friend. At this point, I hadn’t put two and two together.

So today I met with another female friend and I related this tale to her. Her hagwon is near my school and she had experienced a similar encounter. Now I don’t know the particulars but we agree on his appearance and he had asked her if she would be interesting in teaching his wife privately.

I don’t know what I have done to be subjected to such a level of scrutiny; I haven’t broken any laws in Korea nor have I breached any terms of my contract or visa, I am fully qualified to work here, I don’t think I am an excellent teacher but I do think I am competent, I enjoy teaching and put a lot of effort into it, and I always try to respect Korean customs. My school seems happy with my work and I have a good rapport with the students and teachers. As to my friend, she's practically an angel.

I haven't reported this to my school yet, as my CoT is very sick and pregnant at the moment and I don't want to give her additional stress. I'll report it when we return to school on Wednesday. I haven't reported it to the police either, as it seems unlikely that anything can be done about with no evidence. Even if I did have evidence it seems that in cases were it's Koreans vs. Foreigners, Koreans are favoured with impunity while foreigners are favoured with further scrutiny. I don't wish to criminalised for being a victim. No thanks. 

I am posting this for people like me (particularly women), who meet this weirdo and think they are being stalked by some pervert/ serial killer (that's were my mind went). Hopefully, if you do meet with this situation you can tackle it rationally and calmly.


Offline JahRhythm

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2012, 04:32:46 am »
I dunno what to make of this...
Just a word of advice to people: don't be afraid to tell people to F Off.
Ive experienced and seen these types of encounters where people feel cornered but they go along humoring the interagator, being ever so polite.
Screw that
We teach EFL not ESL. Hagwon and "Private School" are not synonymous. Not everyone works in either a hagwon or public school. Immigration Question? Call 1345.

Offline Mountain Crocodile

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2012, 06:24:31 am »
No you're not paranoid.  In fact, if you met THIS guy

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/31/world/la-fg-korea-english31-2010jan31

________________________________
FOREIGN EXCHANGE


A South Korea group uses the Internet and other means to track foreign teachers, in an effort to ferret out illegal or unsavory behavior. The teachers say they're victims of stalkers and rumors.





Yie Eun-woong, volunteer manager of the Seoul-based Anti-English Spectrum,… (John M. Glionna / Los Angeles Times)

January 31, 2010|By John M. Glionna


Reporting from Seoul — Sometimes, in his off hours, Yie Eun-woong does a bit of investigative work.

He uses the Internet and other means to track personal data and home addresses of foreign English teachers across South Korea.

Then he follows them, often for weeks at a time, staking out their apartments, taking notes on their contacts and habits.

He wants to know whether they're doing drugs or molesting children.

Yie, a slender 40-year-old who owns a temporary employment agency, says he is only attempting to weed out troublemakers who have no business teaching students in South Korea, or anywhere else.

The volunteer manager of a controversial group known as the Anti-English Spectrum, Yie investigates complaints by South Korean parents, often teaming up with authorities, and turns over information from his efforts for possible prosecution.

Outraged teachers groups call Yie an instigator and a stalker.

Yie waves off the criticism. "It's not stalking, it's following," he said. "There's no law against that."

Since its founding in 2005, critics say, Yie's group has waged an invective-filled nationalistic campaign against the 20,000 foreign-born English teachers in South Korea.

On their website and through fliers, members have spread rumors of a foreign English teacher crime wave. They have alleged that some teachers are knowingly spreading AIDS, speculation that has been reported in the Korean press.

Teacher activists acknowledge that a few foreign English instructors are arrested each year in South Korea -- cases mostly involving the use of marijuana -- but they insist that the rate of such incidents is far lower than for the Korean population itself.

"Why are they following teachers? That's a job for the police," said Dann Gaymer, a spokesman for the Assn. for Teachers of English in Korea. "What this group is up to is something called vigilantism, and I don't like the sound of that."

In November, the president of the teachers group received anonymous e-mails threatening his life and accusing him of committing sex crimes.

"I have organized the KEK (Kill White in Korea)," one e-mail read in part. "We will start to kill and hit [foreigners] from this Christmas. Don't make a fuss. . . . Just get out."

Yie acknowledges that he has been questioned by investigators but denies any involvement in the threats of violence.

 "To be honest," he said, "a lot of our group members believe the teachers made this all up."

The debate over foreign English teachers is symbolic of a social shift taking place in a nation that has long prided itself on its racial purity and singular culture, South Korean analysts say.

In less than a decade, the number of foreigners living in South Korea, with a population of nearly 49 million, has doubled to 1.2 million, many of them migrant workers from other Asian nations.

Also included are the foreign English teachers, most from the United States, drawn here by compensation packages that may include as much as $2,500 a month plus free rent and a round-trip ticket to teach a Korean population obsessed with learning from native speakers.

 Yie's efforts have the support of some educators who say many foreign teachers lack the skills to run a classroom.

"This has nothing to do with race. It is all about teaching," said Kim Young-Lan, a sociology professor at Sookmyung Women's University in Seoul.

The government has tried to stem what it sees as a troubling number of racist incidents. A 31-year-old man was charged last year for a verbal outburst against an Indian man and a Korean woman traveling together on a city bus in Seoul.

But some teachers from abroad say Korean laws regarding their status remain discriminatory. Foreign English teachers must undergo HIV tests and criminal and academic checks that are not required of Koreans doing the same work, they say.

Yie says he has nothing against foreigners. Growing up near the city of Osan, he often rode with his taxi driver father and encountered foreigners who served at the U.S. military base there. "I learned to pick out the good guys from the bad guys," he says

In 2005, by then living in Seoul, he joined the fledgling activist group after seeing an upsetting posting on a website: claims by foreign teachers that they had slept with Korean students.

Yie, who is single and has no children, volunteered to help organize an effort to rein in such behavior.

 "People were angry; most of them were parents with kids," he said. "We all got together online and traded information."

Gaymer says he doubts that such a posting ever existed. Instead, he says, Koreans were angry about photos posted on a job website showing foreigners dancing with scantily clad Korean women.

"They were consenting adults at a party with foreign men," he said. "They weren't doing anything bad or illegal."

Yie's group, Gaymer says, has used the incident as a rallying call. "They're posting online pictures of teachers' apartments and whipping each other into a nationalist frenzy, creating a hysteria against all English teachers, troublemakers or not," he said.

Yie, who says his group is managed by half a dozen key figures and has 300 other members, created a system for parents and others to report bad teachers. The group says it has contributed to several arrests, including the recent bust of several foreign instructors for gambling and marijuana possession.

"I'm being called a racist who judges the entire group by the mistakes of the few," Yie said. "I'm trying to look at these teachers with an open mind."
____________________

then yes he was trying to set you up.  There is a rather active anti-foreign hate group in Korea that purposely stalks, follows, records and tries to catch foreigners doing something wrong so they can run to the police to get them deported.  This  isn't new, nor is it illegal either. 

The key word here is vigilance.  But in this case you're not being paranoid at all.  There IS a very strong hate element towards you in this country through some people.  Though most are nice, it's always the nutjobs that you end up reading about on the local news or CNN.  Just be smart and not easily lured into some very unfortuntaely circumstances that can be twisted and interpreted as you doing something wrong.

MC
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 06:29:14 am by Mountain Crocodile »

Offline plchron

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2012, 09:25:33 am »
I have also heard that there are agencies (kind of like private detectives back home) that can be hired by parents or employers to investigate you. Hope everything turns out all right OP.

Offline Spongeblob

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2012, 11:26:44 am »
Yep, there are stalker types here and people can hire private investigators.
MC may be onto something there.
Here is another article with a picture of Mr. Yie.
http://kissmykimchi.com/2010/02/anti-english-spectrum-follows-not-stalks.html/

Offline kps1

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2012, 11:46:29 am »
I dunno what to make of this...
Just a word of advice to people: don't be afraid to tell people to F Off.
Ive experienced and seen these types of encounters where people feel cornered but they go along humoring the interagator, being ever so polite.
Screw that

I'm going to have to agree with this guy. I've told weirdos who approach me asking me weird things in English on the trains and at pubs to not talk to me. I told one weirdo, who smelt like he slept in a trash can and whose breath was like a heatwave blowing in my face, " Don't talk to me. Really, go away." Then he said, " I will remember your face" slowly stepping away like he was Megamind or something. I just said, " Okay buddy, you do that." But the thing is I'm a pretty big guy. I don't know what to suggest if you're a girl, but really just tell them you dont want to talk to them. It's weird that people would rather put themselves in dangerous situations than risk being rude, I've never understood that.

Offline Jrong

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2012, 12:37:19 pm »
I dunno what to make of this...
Just a word of advice to people: don't be afraid to tell people to F Off.
Ive experienced and seen these types of encounters where people feel cornered but they go along humoring the interagator, being ever so polite.
Screw that
^yep
I've been in numerous situations with similar anti-foreigner groups in different countries. Just take control of the situation by switching it to meaningless topics. Interrupt him with "hey! did you hear about how the Suwon Bluewings are doing this year?", or "it looks like it's going to rain, is it going to rain? It might rain. Who knows, it could really rain...I should buy another umbrella..." or "Hey! you look like Jackie Chan! Ever seen that movie where he did this and that and...blah blah blah such an amazing film with blah blah blah..." and ramble and ramble then act like your attention is diverted, run over to see something that supposedly interests you and if you keep control he'll just leave you alone and never bother you again.
____   ____   __   __   ____   ____!

Offline unclefrank

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2012, 12:58:24 pm »
MSNBC KOREA: To Catch A Waygook.

Offline jenmur

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2012, 01:29:50 pm »
not really looking for any advice on this one but I did feel cornered and tried to deal with the situation as carefully as possible without causing a ruckus. Do I think I handled the situation well? Nope, I certainly didn't. As I said the guy looked harmless, when I discovered he knew so much much about me I wasn't prepared to let it go, I wanted to nkow how and why. This entire thing took less than 15mins.

It wasn't the Anti-English Spectrum guy, it was someone else. Nor is it just me but it happened to my friend as well within the last month. I told her that i had a really freaky story to tell her and she replied that her's was much worse and it turns out it was the same story. I'm sure a private detective would be more inconspicious.

Offline orangeman

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2012, 03:29:41 pm »
Yup, I've had similar encounters where my spidey sense started tingling.  I've learned to just lie lie lie and remove myself from the situation.  One time a young lady struck up a seemingly innocent conversation with me on the subway and once I mentioned I worked in a public school she told me she was a part of SMOE and demanded all this personal info.  I just walked away and she started yelling at me so I got off the train.  I get this a lot in my new neighbourhood as well.  I don't mind making small talk with the kimbap ladies or 7/11 guys, but I've learned to be evasive and guarded when approached on the street or on the subway now.  Actually, a few weeks ago I had a somewhat similar encounter as the OP.  Lots of weird questions and when I got off the train at my stop he tried to stop me.  There really are anti-foreigner types out there looking to start trouble.  Don't be paranoid, just vigilant.   

Offline KLM

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2012, 05:54:34 pm »
If a Korean stranger approaches me and speaks English, I respond that I don't speak English because I'm from Russia. Barring one instance with a crazy/drunk old guy in a 목욕탕 who asked my opinion about Putin (I told him "정치에 관심 없어요"), this tactic has always ended the encounter immediately.

Think of all the people in your life who've approached you for an unsolicited conversation. Have you ever gone on to enjoy a valuable relationship with any of them? I haven't. How many of these interlocutors were actually insane? Even in my native country, if a stranger initiates a conversation with me, I don't respond unless the person legitimately needs help or directions.

Offline Uhfotis

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2012, 06:09:53 pm »
If a Korean stranger approaches me and speaks English, I respond that I don't speak English because I'm from Russia. Barring one instance with a crazy/drunk old guy in a 목욕탕 who asked my opinion about Putin (I told him "정치에 관심 없어요"), this tactic has always ended the encounter immediately.

Think of all the people in your life who've approached you for an unsolicited conversation. Have you ever gone on to enjoy a valuable relationship with any of them? I haven't. How many of these interlocutors were actually insane? Even in my native country, if a stranger initiates a conversation with me, I don't respond unless the person legitimately needs help or directions.

That's awesome that it works for you, but I would definitely not recommend white girls telling creepy Korean men they're Russian... Female and Russian in Korea generally means prostitute so this would probably cause more problems than it solves... but as long as it works for you, cheers.

Offline She Follow Me

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2012, 07:58:37 pm »
If a Korean stranger approaches me and speaks English, I respond that I don't speak English because I'm from Russia. Barring one instance with a crazy/drunk old guy in a 목욕탕 who asked my opinion about Putin (I told him "정치에 관심 없어요"), this tactic has always ended the encounter immediately.

Think of all the people in your life who've approached you for an unsolicited conversation. Have you ever gone on to enjoy a valuable relationship with any of them? I haven't. How many of these interlocutors were actually insane? Even in my native country, if a stranger initiates a conversation with me, I don't respond unless the person legitimately needs help or directions.

Yeah, I do the same.
Just reply back in Korean that I'm a Russian (sometimes change the country) student at the University here.
Usually does the trick.

Offline Hooplehead

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2012, 08:23:38 pm »
I agree, that a fair few number of clinically insane here are allowed to roam the streets, as mental illness often goes undiagnosed due to "saving face." Shoot, most Koreans believe mental illness is caused by demonic possession.

When I feel the "crazy" vibe from one of these people, I have two approaches.  1) I try to out-crazy them 2) act retarded or like I have a speech impediment. 

Offline Harpoinseoul

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2012, 08:35:36 pm »
When creepy people approach me for no good reason, I just break into French. Je ne comprends pas. Je suis Francais. Mange la merd! Vas VAS!!
Works all the time!
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Offline sejongthefabulous

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2012, 09:35:32 pm »
I don't bother with the I don't speak English bit, it could be very insulting if they find out. Sometimes I have pulled the student or tourist because I can stretch it to being kinda true. There are a lot of folks that I don't mind chatting to specially taxi drivers. As long as they stick to questions like do you like Kimchi? Where are you from? And how long have you been here? If they ask me anything personal I tend to indicate that I'm uncomfortable and if they persist, I usually just make a phone call and start chatting with someone else. It gives them the message and it's better than flat out ignoring them. Assuming these people are actually stalking you, lying is only going to give them more reason to stalk you. They could also just be warm reading you and making assumptions. Either way never tell them where you work because if they show up nothing good will come out of it. I don't tell strangers the area I live, or where and why I am headed to a given area. There is no need to share this information, unless it's a police officer.

Offline DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2012, 09:47:24 pm »
First, just wave them away and say strongly 'Sorry, can't talk I'm busy' and open a book or your cell phone.

If that fails I'd honestly just say 'Look I'm busy, go talk to someone else, go away.'

If that failed, I'd just walk away from them hurriedly and change carriages.  If they followed me, I'd make a large public scene, saying very loudly that I don't want to talk to them and make eye contact with other Koreans, tellign them I don't want to talk tot his person and that would most likely embarrass them into buggering off or making at least one bystander take on your cause.

If that failed I'd just start shouting really loudly, 'Hanglul mal moloyo, yongo mal moloyo, tang shin nuguya?  Nuguya?  Chingu aniya!  Hajima!  Kayo!  KAYO!  I'd get ever crazier until they were embarrasssed into wanting out.  I'd out crazy rentaghost.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 09:50:16 pm by DWAEDGIMORIGUKBAP »
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Offline tsudopnem

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2012, 10:11:16 pm »
If a Korean stranger approaches me and speaks English, I respond that I don't speak English because I'm from Russia. Barring one instance with a crazy/drunk old guy in a 목욕탕 who asked my opinion about Putin (I told him "정치에 관심 없어요"), this tactic has always ended the encounter immediately.

Think of all the people in your life who've approached you for an unsolicited conversation. Have you ever gone on to enjoy a valuable relationship with any of them? I haven't. How many of these interlocutors were actually insane? Even in my native country, if a stranger initiates a conversation with me, I don't respond unless the person legitimately needs help or directions.

If a stranger comes up to me to start chatting, I usually say that I'm from Spain and don't know English. Taxi drivers are okay, but if I don't feel like answering the same boring questions, I just say that I have a headache and must rest. I say it in Korean, they do the whole "Wow you speak Korean very well" thing and I say that I don't, and the conversation ends.

I wasn't thinking the other night on the subway to meet a girlfriend for supper, and the young man sitting next to me asked if I was from America. I said yes then immediately regretted it. He then tried to talk to me for several minutes about the Power Rangers. He pulled up photos on his phone of the power rangers. I told him that it's a children's show, and that, while my little brother liked it, I don't. I texted my friend to call me, smiled and waved at him, and changed cars.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 10:15:26 pm by tsudopnem »

Offline Harpoinseoul

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2012, 10:20:36 pm »
I once had a 55 year old ajoshi sit next to me on the subway. He proceeded to engage me in conversation as if he~had actually paid tuition and now it was his free talking class~ he was playing without a full deck. He got his vocab notebook out asking me what words meant, asking how to pronounce this word... is this Brittish or American...how to improve selective listening skills...is constructivism a good methodology and which pedagogy do I prefer... THAT IS WHY I SPEAK FRENCH WHEN I'M ACCOSTED ON THE SUBWAY!!  >:( ;) :)
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Offline woman-king

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Re: Weird encounter of the stalking vigilante variety
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2012, 10:20:36 pm »

Definitely talk to your director about it tomorrow, and I'd recommend doing that with your friend who also encountered creepy stalker dude.

The fact that your friend who works at the same hagwon as you had a similar creepy encounter definitely makes me think he may have some connection to your school.  Might know the parents of some students there, or something, and might know perhaps what apartment complex your hagwon places your teaches in.  Also, does your school have a website with your pictures on them?  That could be another source of information. 

It sounds like he's either an anti-English-spectrum type (maybe not affiliated with them, but similar mindset) or simply just obsessive/crazy and somehow has access to info about you.  Is your Facebook set to private, do you have the name of your school in your information?  LinkedIn, twitter, other social networking sites that are open for public viewing?

I think you handled the situation pretty well, though my general rule now is that if a Korean approaches me for random conversation--which rarely happens, because I don't put on my smiley face when I've got places to go and people to meet--be as brusque and unresponsive as possible.  I've never been good at pretending to not speak English or that I'm crazy myself, but I am pretty good at freezing people out and being unfriendly.  Getting up and walking away without responding or acknowledging someone can work without requiring you to do any serious acting.  But yeah, in general, while most Koreans who approach you are just curious and probably harmless, some aren't, and I don't like to give anyone any sort of opening or encouragement. 

Of course, be aware if you're being followed and if you are, go into a public place and phone a friend to meet you, which you did.  :)  And as others said, if someone tries to touch you or makes you feel cornered in a public place, I think making eye contact with Koreans around you helps to push the whole losing-face thing--both for the aggressor, and for the bystanders.