SMOE cuts ALL high school and middle (except English villages)

[Mountain Crocodile]

Title says it all.

I've been informed that SMOE has decided not to renew ALL high and middle schools (except English villages).

The official paper has been released today. 

Has anyone else received this?

MC

[justanotherwaygook]

Link, please.

[Deranged Ranger]

Earlier this year the Head Supervisor of the a District stood up in district meeting for NSETs and said that it was official that by 2013 ALL NSETS would be gone in Korea and that none would have the ability to re-sign after March 2012.

When Jon Pak was asked about this he made more of an issue that he couldnt verify that the poster asking about it wasnt a member of SMOE. He never did respond to the question.

So who knows man, you can't get a straight answer from SMOE about many things even when you ask a simple direct question. Chances are though (especially if they dont change this national free lunch program combined with no real curriculum or standards for English Education) that SMOE jobs are on the way out the door.

[Gomdori]

True story.  I have the paper right here.  It was given to me by my co teacher....it's in korean but the wife confirmed...all high and middle schools are cut unless you are in an english village

[iggyb]

Makes perfect sense why they will keep elementary FTs who are given much less control of the classes and less contact hours with the students... 

I heard months ago that high school FTs were going.  The last program for SMOE I was in allowed us to transfer where we wanted when our initial contract was over.  1 co-worker wanted to transfer to a high school, but they told her middle school was OK but not high school since they were cutting those positions.  I guess they moved to include middle too.

The current head of SMOE is in the opposition party (and just able to resume duties after a bribery scandle).  If the opposition wins in the presidential election at the end of this year, it is likely rumors of cutting out a high percentage of FT positions across the nation will become a reality.

[overdrive2023x]

So does this mean that some new SMOE-ers that are set to start this new Spring Semester are going to be dropped? (Since the amount of positions will be cut to only elementary schools?)

[steveperry]

So does this mean that some new SMOE-ers that are set to start this new Spring Semester are going to be dropped? (Since the amount of positions will be cut to only elementary schools?)

From what I've heard everyone will be able to finish their contracts, even new hires, but won't have the option to renew beyond that. No one is going to be let go mid-contract. Of course the situation could change at any time though.

Also, middle and high school teachers who are not renewed will be given the option of transfering to elementary as long as spaces are available (assuming those elementary positions don't end up getting cut too)

I'm still kind of surprised they actually bothered to hire anyone this year though with all of the cutbacks going on.

[iggyb]

The pressure is coming from different sides.  Some principles will want a FT to look better to the parents.  Most Korean teachers will be happy to see the expensive programs close.  The managers of the programs will want to see them stay.  Budgeting planners connected to the opposition parties will want to see them done away with.  And so on.

GEPIK offered a windown into this:  The provincial budgeting office cut out ALL funding.  The GEPIK board and schools have been scrambling to figure what they could keep, what they wanted to keep, and what they will keep.  Now, we hear that more funding has been found and they are rushing to add more bodies for this spring...

In short, things are in flux.

They will be until next spring at least when a new president enters the Blue House and we know what party he is in and how strong that party is in the National Assembly and among the big school boards...

[overdrive2023x]

So does this mean that some new SMOE-ers that are set to start this new Spring Semester are going to be dropped? (Since the amount of positions will be cut to only elementary schools?)

From what I've heard everyone will be able to finish their contracts, even new hires, but won't have the option to renew beyond that. No one is going to be let go mid-contract. Of course the situation could change at any time though.

Also, middle and high school teachers who are not renewed will be given the option of transfering to elementary as long as spaces are available (assuming those elementary positions don't end up getting cut too)

I'm still kind of surprised they actually bothered to hire anyone this year though with all of the cutbacks going on.

Hmmm. Ok. Just curious, because I remember that SMOE was originally supposed to hire 100-120 or so new hires, but then after the high school announcement was made, they bumped it down to 80. So was just wondering if with this new announcement, if they'll bump the number down again, and then cancel some people's contracts that are still in the US, Canada, Aus, Eng, and SA.

[Mountain Crocodile]

Not so long ago, SMOE cancelled contracts for around 100 people WHILE THEY WERE IN FLIGHT (yes, less than 48hours before their contracts were to start).  All expenses incurred by the teachers which included airfare, costs of moving, cancelling leases were not refunded.  SMOE essentially blamed the teachers saying that they overbook because they knew a % of teachers would not come, and they had to cancel because so many were actually coming.

It was a disgusting show of organizational attitude since they created their own problems, incurred thousands of dollars in expenses and untold stress to just blame the people they hired.  Should you trust SMOE?  Look at their past history and make that decision yourself.

This entire NET in PS's thing had nothing to do with education but politics.  The MOE wanted to stomp out hogwans and introduced NET's as an alternative (an initiative which failed in its purpose) and became a slush fund for schools.  You would not believe the amount of money allocated towards a school for an NET.  In some cases, nearly 100M/yr was allocated to provide for all expenses (salary, housing, benefits & 'misc' expenses) which became a boon for principals to skim.  Schools loved it because a NET represented money.  You would cry if you saw the amount of corruption in the public school system which is often viewed by society as the most corrupt in the country.

This project has failed on multiple levels, and I blame the leadership at schools and the MOE.  You cannot solve a problem by throwing money at it.  Though I would be happy to take their money, eventually you leave because the PS's never realized the two fundamental aspects that anyone needs to be satisfied in their working environment.

1) Respect at work and a sense of doing something worthwhile
2) Sufficient compensation

EPIK failed in these regards.  As a political stunt, it was not the most expensive one they have done over the years, but at least this horrific and useless program can perhaps be turned into something better when the next cycle of insanity returns to the MOE.

MC

[Deranged Ranger]

ok again the bottom line is hat with SMOE you're never going to know anything until it happens. BUt basically this looks to be the lay of the lland

1) if youre currently employed by SMOE be prepared to not be employed by them in the next year, if youre very lucky

2) if you are not alread currently employed by SMOE, odds are that you're not going to be anytime soon, and even IF You are, chances are that point one will be the case.

Without a standard cirriculum and much of the program run by KOrean who hinder our effectiveness we are viewed as useless, and with this new lunch program going through we are an expense that will arguably need to go.

[Deranged Ranger]

Not so long ago, SMOE cancelled contracts for around 100 people WHILE THEY WERE IN FLIGHT (yes, less than 48hours before their contracts were to start).  All expenses incurred by the teachers which included airfare, costs of moving, cancelling leases were not refunded.  SMOE essentially blamed the teachers saying that they overbook because they knew a % of teachers would not come, and they had to cancel because so many were actually coming.

It was a disgusting show of organizational attitude since they created their own problems, incurred thousands of dollars in expenses and untold stress to just blame the people they hired.  Should you trust SMOE?  Look at their past history and make that decision yourself.

This entire NET in PS's thing had nothing to do with education but politics.  The MOE wanted to stomp out hogwans and introduced NET's as an alternative (an initiative which failed in its purpose) and became a slush fund for schools.  You would not believe the amount of money allocated towards a school for an NET.  In some cases, nearly 100M/yr was allocated to provide for all expenses (salary, housing, benefits & 'misc' expenses) which became a boon for principals to skim.  Schools loved it because a NET represented money.  You would cry if you saw the amount of corruption in the public school system which is often viewed by society as the most corrupt in the country.

This project has failed on multiple levels, and I blame the leadership at schools and the MOE.  You cannot solve a problem by throwing money at it.  Though I would be happy to take their money, eventually you leave because the PS's never realized the two fundamental aspects that anyone needs to be satisfied in their working environment.

1) Respect at work and a sense of doing something worthwhile
2) Sufficient compensation

EPIK failed in these regards.  As a political stunt, it was not the most expensive one they have done over the years, but at least this horrific and useless program can perhaps be turned into something better when the next cycle of insanity returns to the MOE.

MC

While that did happen that is not the reason they gave. They made a bad bad mistake and yes it screwed a lot of people, they also tried to make ammends and get each and every one of the people that they couldnt offer jobs to a job the following semester. Many told SMOE to F**K off.

The job is Unique, they have to get people from overseas to fill hundreds of positions. Many teachers say they will quit and then at the last minute they will ask to stay, many teachers say they will stay and then the quit last minute. NOw I"m not saying SMOE couldnt do a better job at it, they most certainly could.

They did NOT turn around and blame the teachers, and they do not overhire on purpose "because a % don't come"

That (major) overbooking thing never once happenned before, and hasn't happenned since.

I personally know THREE of the teachers who got screwed when their contracts were cancelled, all three worked with SMOE to get here the next semester and they were quite happy with how SMOE dealt with a bad situation.

Is SMOE perfect, no it isnt, its also a government run program with very limited money in the budget for the people that do the working with NSETS specifically. And while I have my issues with JOn PAk, the guy works his a$$ off for the most part, as does everyone else in his office

[Deranged Ranger]

.  You would cry if you saw the amount of corruption in the public school system which is often viewed by society as the most corrupt in the country.

1) And where did YOU see this amount of corruption. Do you have some special oversight position that we should know about.

2) as for 100 MILLION a year for the NET programs - wheres your evidence? UNtil you can provide some I am going to claim that this number is patently absurd. I am currently at the highest pay Grade SMOE offers and with that and my apartment it comes in well under 50 Million a year.

[Yu_Bumsuk]

It's interesting that they're doing this just as the NEAT is coming in and there will actually be a speaking and writing component to the official graded curriculum. On the up side, there will be a lot of positions for secondary school hagwon teachers who can teach to the NEAT in a setting that's not merely "funny".

[Mountain Crocodile]

I'd have to disagree.  SMOE knew full well what they were doing because it doesn't take much common sense to realize what would happen.

The sentiments you raised were put into place to appease the sentiment on the internet in a massive display of damage control.  I can confidently tell you that if people dont' raise a stink, it would not have even been reported.

Again, damage control does not = good intentions.

SMOE also desperately needed to keep teachers on board for the two remaining years, and tried to keep all their cuts as quiet as possible so people would renew or at least hint at the possibility of staying.  It makes common sense, why would you tell your workforce you're being let go shortly?  What would you do?  Most would seek other employment or get their departure plans in order.

I saw this coming over a year ago when I left my public school to my university.  Ironically, i just received a 2 year contract renewal.  But for those who are getting cut, it's hard.  Screwing with people's livelihoods is not a joke, but we are not locals and never treated as such or given this consideration.

I would not place as much faith and credit to what SMOE says as you do, but then again we have very different experiences here in that regards.

MC

[Davox]

.  You would cry if you saw the amount of corruption in the public school system which is often viewed by society as the most corrupt in the country.

1) And where did YOU see this amount of corruption. Do you have some special oversight position that we should know about.

2) as for 100 MILLION a year for the NET programs - wheres your evidence? UNtil you can provide some I am going to claim that this number is patently absurd. I am currently at the highest pay Grade SMOE offers and with that and my apartment it comes in well under 50 Million a year.

The implication is that while we indeed only cost our schools about 50 million (often far less) in expenses, some schools got given 100 million in budget from the government to pay for us.  Hence, an extra 50 million that principals could allocate anywhere (including their wallet).

Now, I have no idea if any of this is true, because I'm just a regular teacher like you.  But I do know that it's not at all unheard of for governments to make a mistake and hand out more money than the group ends up actually needing that year.   In fact, it happens all the time, although the difference is usually closer to a few percent instead of double the money like like the claim here.  Still, what he's claiming is not impossible.

[lotte world]

Do we have any actual evidence?

A web link?

A scan or photo of the announcement letter?

[Deranged Ranger]

I'd have to disagree.  SMOE knew full well what they were doing because it doesn't take much common sense to realize what would happen.

The sentiments you raised were put into place to appease the sentiment on the internet in a massive display of damage control.  I can confidently tell you that if people dont' raise a stink, it would not have even been reported.

Again, damage control does not = good intentions.

SMOE also desperately needed to keep teachers on board for the two remaining years, and tried to keep all their cuts as quiet as possible so people would renew or at least hint at the possibility of staying.  It makes common sense, why would you tell your workforce you're being let go shortly?  What would you do?  Most would seek other employment or get their departure plans in order.

I saw this coming over a year ago when I left my public school to my university.  Ironically, i just received a 2 year contract renewal.  But for those who are getting cut, it's hard.  Screwing with people's livelihoods is not a joke, but we are not locals and never treated as such or given this consideration.

I would not place as much faith and credit to what SMOE says as you do, but then again we have very different experiences here in that regards.

MC

1) You can disagree all you like to. I KNOW what I am talking about in this regard from conversations with Both JOn Pak and Matt who were involved. I know a number of the teachers involved and what they were told by SMOE ( and it wasnt what you said), and I was active in the discussion group when this happenned, so I know what SMOE told most of them as well. I also know what SMOE said in thier official statement on the matter.

2) As for common sense, what comon sense are you talking about. Virtualy every mistake is a result of some kind of oversight. This was a MAJOR oversight to be sure, bt a lack of common sense! When was the last time you tried to figure out the hiring of 500 - 600 employees while the exact number was still in flux?

3) UM yes it was reported damn near instantly, there were literally dozens of posts that went up on both the facebook groups and Daves and waygook. MOst were venting as they had every right to do, and many were upset, but as stated many of them still got jobs 6 months later and SMOE did thier best to do damage control you want to call that "appeasing" Seems like SMOE can't win with you eh? They did thier best to place everyone and "fixed the mistake"

What does "good intentions" have to do with this matter? They made a MAJOR screw up ( an unitended one, just use the common sense YOU say they should have and figure out how much of a logistical nightmare this was for the, how much heat they took for it, and then ignorantly say that they did it on purpose, giving them basically triple the workload they had for 3 - 6 months after that) So yes they did as much damage control as they possibly could, and by and large they succeeded for those willing to work with them.

YOur claim about SMOE needing teachers to stay for 2 more years is both an unfounded statement of propaganda, and irrlevant to this matter. HOw is an overhiring of 100 teachers relvant to keeping the teachers they already have or whatever you are spouting?

They are not screwing with people's livlihoods. You are just spouting unfounded vitrol because you didnt like your PS and you have moved on.

What exactly did you see coming? I can see the downfall of America coming doesnt mean that if it ever happens I am a genius, a broken watch is right twice a day after all.


I DONT put a lot of crdit in what SMOE says to me, in fact I have stated in other threads that you can never get many striaght answers from them. That is in no way what we are discussing. YOU STATED that SMoe overhired them on purpose because " a certain percentage dont come" I am saying that I KNOW This to be false because every single teacher on the SMOE boards who were involved contradict that statement and every single document SMOE released about it joved with what they told the teachers.

If you want to sput the conspiracy theory that they knew and just wanted to "mess with teachers livlihood, open themselves up to scorn, ridicule, lawsuits etc etc etc, all while tripling the workload of the people who did it, well by all means you can believe this is you want to. Many people beleive incorrect and false things all the time.

[Deranged Ranger]

.  You would cry if you saw the amount of corruption in the public school system which is often viewed by society as the most corrupt in the country.

1) And where did YOU see this amount of corruption. Do you have some special oversight position that we should know about.

2) as for 100 MILLION a year for the NET programs - wheres your evidence? UNtil you can provide some I am going to claim that this number is patently absurd. I am currently at the highest pay Grade SMOE offers and with that and my apartment it comes in well under 50 Million a year.

The implication is that while we indeed only cost our schools about 50 million (often far less) in expenses, some schools got given 100 million in budget from the government to pay for us.  Hence, an extra 50 million that principals could allocate anywhere (including their wallet).

Now, I have no idea if any of this is true, because I'm just a regular teacher like you.  But I do know that it's not at all unheard of for governments to make a mistake and hand out more money than the group ends up actually needing that year.   In fact, it happens all the time, although the difference is usually closer to a few percent instead of double the money like like the claim here.  Still, what he's claiming is not impossible.

Im not saying that its not impossible, of course corruption is possible, Im asking for this proof he speaks of that basically shows that our positions create this slush fund that the principls seem to have an hand in skimming.

[Mountain Crocodile]

Rubbish.  Mostly apologist garbage.

Though you did write one curious comment.

'I am a genius, a broken watch is right twice a day after all.'

You are correct in this.  A broken watch IS correct twice a day.  Though I would suspect it doesn't take a genius to realize this.

You are free to believe whatever you feel will make you happier.  IMHO, you're what many consider a 'useful idiot'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

MC