SMOE cuts ALL high school and middle (except English villages)

[lotte world]

Do we have any actual evidence?

A web link?

A scan or photo of the announcement letter?

Yes Mr. Troll there is lots of evidence.

1) Go find one of the 100 teachers who was involved and ask them what they were told.
2) Look on the internet, find the newspaper articles on this matter and see what the reason given was
3) Go to the Facebook group (if it's still up and running) and see if you can find the posts I mentioned reading at the time.

I meant evidence of the current announcement.  Please do try to keep up.

[Mountain Crocodile]

.  You would cry if you saw the amount of corruption in the public school system which is often viewed by society as the most corrupt in the country.

1) And where did YOU see this amount of corruption. Do you have some special oversight position that we should know about.

2) as for 100 MILLION a year for the NET programs - wheres your evidence? UNtil you can provide some I am going to claim that this number is patently absurd. I am currently at the highest pay Grade SMOE offers and with that and my apartment it comes in well under 50 Million a year.

The implication is that while we indeed only cost our schools about 50 million (often far less) in expenses, some schools got given 100 million in budget from the government to pay for us.  Hence, an extra 50 million that principals could allocate anywhere (including their wallet).

Now, I have no idea if any of this is true, because I'm just a regular teacher like you.  But I do know that it's not at all unheard of for governments to make a mistake and hand out more money than the group ends up actually needing that year.   In fact, it happens all the time, although the difference is usually closer to a few percent instead of double the money like like the claim here.  Still, what he's claiming is not impossible.

Im not saying that its not impossible, of course corruption is possible, Im asking for this proof he speaks of that basically shows that our positions create this slush fund that the principls seem to have an hand in skimming.

I did not want to link the news articles since they are overly biased.  I've linked academic research concerning this in regards to the educational sector in Korea (it's part of my dissertation topic).  It's a good read regardless whether you agree with it or not, but one should be familiar with other arguments and perspectives in regards to education within Korea.  It's worth taking the time to read and reflect on.

http://www.duke.edu/~myhan/kaf0802.pdf

MC

[Deranged Ranger]

Rubbish.  Mostly apologist garbage.

Though you did write one curious comment.

'I am a genius, a broken watch is right twice a day after all.'

You are correct in this.  A broken watch IS correct twice a day.  Though I would suspect it doesn't take a genius to realize this.

You are free to believe whatever you feel will make you happier.  IMHO, you're what many consider a 'useful idiot'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

MC

Rubbish eh,? Yep I have easilly verifiable facts on my side, you have propaganda  Bullcrap

Where are these links on your proof? NOt coming eh?

Basically you are just going to continue claiming that everyone in SMOE is out to ruin our lives and every principal is just skimming off our positions. Id rather be wrongly accused of being an apologist than proving I'm ignorant as you have done.

Are you going to adress ANY of the comments or DIRECT QUESTIONS i posed to you, or are you just going to do what most people who dont have a clue what they are talking about do and just proclaim a false victory and move on?

Anyway, you are another person that has a high warning level and are currently being watched by the mods. YOu have shown you are not willing to show your proof, i have proven you are incorrect, so any further conversation on the matter is pointless.

So unless you are actually willing to back up your highly slanderous points,  move on, or I will report you for trolling

[cinamon]

So where is the article that says high school and middle will be cut?  Back in December they said they were going to continue to fund middle and elementary.

[Deranged Ranger]

Do we have any actual evidence?

A web link?

A scan or photo of the announcement letter?

Yes Mr. Troll there is lots of evidence.

1) Go find one of the 100 teachers who was involved and ask them what they were told.
2) Look on the internet, find the newspaper articles on this matter and see what the reason given was
3) Go to the Facebook group (if it's still up and running) and see if you can find the posts I mentioned reading at the time.

I meant evidence of the current announcement.  Please do try to keep up.

then quote WHAT evidence you want there stimpy.

[Mountain Crocodile]

Rubbish.  Mostly apologist garbage.

Though you did write one curious comment.

'I am a genius, a broken watch is right twice a day after all.'

You are correct in this.  A broken watch IS correct twice a day.  Though I would suspect it doesn't take a genius to realize this.

You are free to believe whatever you feel will make you happier.  IMHO, you're what many consider a 'useful idiot'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

MC

Rubbish eh,? Yep I have easilly verifiable facts on my side, you have propaganda  Bullcrap

Where are these links on your proof? NOt coming eh?

Basically you are just going to continue claiming that everyone in SMOE is out to ruin our lives and every principal is just skimming off our positions. Id rather be wrongly accused of being an apologist than proving I'm ignorant as you have done.

Are you going to adress ANY of the comments or DIRECT QUESTIONS i posed to you, or are you just going to do what most people who dont have a clue what they are talking about do and just proclaim a false victory and move on?

Anyway, you are another person that has a high warning level and are currently being watched by the mods. YOu have shown you are not willing to show your proof, i have proven you are incorrect, so any further conversation on the matter is pointless.

So unless you are actually willing to back up your highly slanderous points,  move on, or I will report you for trolling

Since you obviously did not read the article I linked within the time frame of me posting it and  you posting your threat.  Please feel free to report me for trolling.  I'll let the research speak for itself.

MC

[Mountain Crocodile]

Do we have any actual evidence?

A web link?

A scan or photo of the announcement letter?

Yes Mr. Troll there is lots of evidence.

1) Go find one of the 100 teachers who was involved and ask them what they were told.
2) Look on the internet, find the newspaper articles on this matter and see what the reason given was
3) Go to the Facebook group (if it's still up and running) and see if you can find the posts I mentioned reading at the time.

Would you like that notarized and apostilled also?

 

MC

[Deranged Ranger]

Rubbish.  Mostly apologist garbage.

Though you did write one curious comment.

'I am a genius, a broken watch is right twice a day after all.'

You are correct in this.  A broken watch IS correct twice a day.  Though I would suspect it doesn't take a genius to realize this.

You are free to believe whatever you feel will make you happier.  IMHO, you're what many consider a 'useful idiot'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

MC

Rubbish eh,? Yep I have easilly verifiable facts on my side, you have propaganda  Bullcrap

Where are these links on your proof? NOt coming eh?

Basically you are just going to continue claiming that everyone in SMOE is out to ruin our lives and every principal is just skimming off our positions. Id rather be wrongly accused of being an apologist than proving I'm ignorant as you have done.

Are you going to adress ANY of the comments or DIRECT QUESTIONS i posed to you, or are you just going to do what most people who dont have a clue what they are talking about do and just proclaim a false victory and move on?

Anyway, you are another person that has a high warning level and are currently being watched by the mods. YOu have shown you are not willing to show your proof, i have proven you are incorrect, so any further conversation on the matter is pointless.

So unless you are actually willing to back up your highly slanderous points,  move on, or I will report you for trolling

Since you obviously did not read the article I linked within the time frame of me posting it and  you posting your threat.  Please feel free to report me for trolling.  I'll let the research speak for itself.

MC

You gave a link to the article on the state of KOrean education, I'M not reading an 11 page article, ( when I already know the system is flawed) nor is that prooof of anything I asked for.

SOme professor writing on Korean education out of Duck University is not proof of anything you have claimed, and if there IS proof in there for what IM asking for, then give me page and paragraph numbers.

Youre willing to et "research speak for itself" but you refuse to let these factors speak for themselves

a) the people involved in the overhiring
b) the actual statments made by SMOE
c) the posts about this matter made on the Facbook group

While also ignoring just how stupid your position is ( that the SMOE officials knowingly and wilingly subjected themselves to more work, huge payouts and lawsuits just to "mess with our livlihood"

Because they KOreans are out to get us right?

Please!

[Deranged Ranger]

And I don't continue arguments with Trolls (who use ad hominem attacks)

I've reported you to the moderators.

PS I read the article just now, it addresses nothing of what I asked you about and does nothing more than spout rehetoric about the problems with education in KOrea. It in no way adrresses the corruption I asked you about nor the teacher overhiring you slander SMOE about.

I am not ignorant, nothing in that article was news to me, as I stated before I read it. I was intelligent enough to know just from the title that I want likely to disagree with anything in it, nor would it in any way address ANY of the points I made.

[Mountain Crocodile]

And I don't continue arguments with Trolls (who use ad hominem attacks)

I've reported you to the moderators.

The last desperate attempt when one gets one's derriere handed to them.

Though I suspect many of them are reading this thread, there is nothing to hide.  I trust their judgements.

MC

[Davox]

If you're not willing to read the article, then you're essentially saying you're happier to hear yourself talk rather thank consider other points of view.

That makes you willingly ignorant, and I don't argue with people who are willingly ignorant.

You are misinformed.   You refuse to even consider other forms (too long) of points of view.  Congratulations, you've been demoted from useful idiot to 'talking head'.   

Very dissapointing to see, but not surprising from people like you.

MC

I don't know....I just finished the article you linked, and honestly it seemed pretty crappy to me.  Exactly who published/commissioned it again and where does their money come from?  Because while the first two thirds of it pretty accurately identified some of the problems facing the education system here (many of which have been just as accurately identified by dozens of random posters on this website), the last third of it read like propaganda for a particular political philosophy/party with absolutely no evidence to back it up whatsoever.

Seriously, university undergrads write better stuff than that.  And telling the audience upfront that the paper contains "limited empirical analysis" (which really should have been a warning not to take it seriously) doesn't magically make it ok to write down any opinion as fact without backing it up with anything.

[gayageum]

It's interesting that they're doing this just as the NEAT is coming in and there will actually be a speaking and writing component to the official graded curriculum. On the up side, there will be a lot of positions for secondary school hagwon teachers who can teach to the NEAT in a setting that's not merely "funny".

I have noticed a rise in ads for after-school programs at elementary schools too. They seem to come with fewer hours and more pay.

[gayageum]

And I don't continue arguments with Trolls (who use ad hominem attacks)

The last desperate attempt when one gets one's derriere handed to them.

Though I suspect many of them are reading this thread, there is nothing to hide.  I trust their judgements.

This reminds me of something. What was it? Ah, yes. Now, I remember.

[Deranged Ranger]

If you're not willing to read the article, then you're essentially saying you're happier to hear yourself talk rather thank consider other points of view.

That makes you willingly ignorant, and I don't argue with people who are willingly ignorant.

You are misinformed.   You refuse to even consider other forms (too long) of points of view.  Congratulations, you've been demoted from useful idiot to 'talking head'.   

Very dissapointing to see, but not surprising from people like you.

MC

I don't know....I just finished the article you linked, and honestly it seemed pretty crappy to me.  Exactly who published/commissioned it again and where does their money come from?  Because while the first two thirds of it pretty accurately identified some of the problems facing the education system here (many of which have been just as accurately identified by dozens of random posters on this website), the last third of it read like propaganda for a particular political philosophy/party with absolutely no evidence to back it up whatsoever.

Seriously, university undergrads write better stuff than that.  And telling the audience upfront that the paper contains "limited empirical analysis" (which really should have been a warning not to take it seriously) doesn't magically make it ok to write down any opinion as fact without backing it up with anything.

Exactly, if anyone comes on her and says that this article answered my questions or that he handed me my derriere, I'll eat my hat.

With any luck the Mods will mute him, he's already being watched by them for previous infractions

[Davey]

Stop arguing, please.

Stick to topic--has anybody else received the same document?

[madison79]

China is just over there

this made me laugh

[lostprofit]

This was interesting until peoplem started to rip into each other.
Perhaps we could all try and get along?

[Deranged Ranger]

Do you think just maybe we either solved that or got over it seeing as though the thread hasn't been active for 4 days 

[jurassic82]

Both Deranged Ranger and Mountain Crocodile have lost their credibility in my eyes. You two may have the best intentions but neither of you are Korean (at least I don't think so) and even though you have lived here for a long time doesn't make you an expert of what happens in all the BS Korean Bueacracy. Maybe you have a Korean wife (or girlfriend) or maybe a Korean coworker or friend told you what was going to happen with SMOE in the next year. To be honest I never listen to expats about stuff like the title of this thread. Yes, high school and middle school positions are being cut but who really knows about elementary school positions. I haven't heard anything about them yet. Also, things seem to happen at the last minute here. There are many schools that want a strong English program at their school and I can imagine those schools would probablly find a way to keep their foreign teacher. Other schools could care less and I am sure those schools will put their money else where. This whole panic, doom and gloom and that all foreign teachers are going to be cut is nonesense.

Things seem to happen at the last minute here and if SMOE is going to cut all NET's then I am sure none of use will know about it ahead of time. Things are always changing. Just look at GEPIK. They lost funding and many schools couldn't renew teachers. Some schools found ways to keep teachers and others just let them go after their contracts. I see SMOE going the same route as GEPIK. My advice to current SMOE teachers is if you work for an elementary school now enjoy your time. Work hard and make the most out of your lessons. Nobody knows what will happen at the end of this next school year. The best we can do is give our best to our students. At the end of the contract if you have worked hard and they do lose funding from SMOE they will hopefully think twice about getting rid of you if you have put in a lot of hard work and the students (and most importantly the parents) are happy with you. Maybe I am being too optimistic but somebody needs to be with all the Debbie Downers (or what my friends like to say "Mr. Soggy Bottoms") on this board. Good luck to all the current and new public school teachers in the upcoming school year. Peace.

[Deranged Ranger]

Um when did I claim to be an expert. I have said little more on the situation than what I have heard and that we "don't know anything" concrete. Don't paint me with the same conspiracy brush the other guy is using please