October 22, 2014, 12:32:58 AM


Author Topic: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana  (Read 11570 times)

Offline Frozencat99

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • #MoonPrincess
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2012, 10:30:28 AM »
It completely astounds me why anyone would want to come here to teach English, and smoke, shoot, or deal in drugs. Would you want someone on drugs teaching your children?

This is Korea! Get lost, go to Thailand, or drink a beer here and be happy. Yes, as we NETeachers slide further down the totem-pole, further than we are already viewed to be. I struggle to understand why-why-why?

C.

Perhaps I'm mistaken but I am fairly certain these teachers smoked MJ in their free time, considering how easy it would be to get caught at work. The children are irrelevant.
Beware the Homosexual Industrial Complex -- http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-june-17-2013/left-behind

You can leave your heterophobia behind.

Offline peasgoodnonsuch

  • Moderator - LVL 2
  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *
  • Posts: 1162
  • Gender: Female
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2012, 10:55:40 AM »
Ugh. This is so annoying. And for those of you who think it's not going to impact us, may I remind you of the Anti-English Spectrum folks and their buddies? The idiots may not be a majority, but they have the ear of enough politicians to have already impacted our lives.

The majority doesn't always make the policy and reason doesn't always reign. Should we have to worry about whether a few stupid potheads should affect our lives? No. Do we have to? Unfortunately, yes. Let's not confuse our ideals with reality folks.

I would also like to point out how every time a gyopo does something good they're "Korean" and every time they do something bad their other nationality takes precedence. The police also seem to be ignoring the fact that quite a few of the clients and one distributor were KOREAN.   ::)

Offline matieu

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 85
  • Gender: Male
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2012, 10:55:44 AM »
This should clear up the could/couldn't care less issue :)


Offline flasyb

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1908
  • Gender: Male
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2012, 11:05:54 AM »
Ugh. This is so annoying. And for those of you who think it's not going to impact us, may I remind you of the Anti-English Spectrum folks and their buddies? The idiots may not be a majority, but they have the ear of enough politicians to have already impacted our lives.

The majority doesn't always make the policy and reason doesn't always reign. Should we have to worry about whether a few stupid potheads should affect our lives? No. Do we have to? Unfortunately, yes. Let's not confuse our ideals with reality folks.

I would also like to point out how every time a gyopo does something good they're "Korean" and every time they do something bad their other nationality takes precedence. The police also seem to be ignoring the fact that quite a few of the clients and one distributor were KOREAN.   ::)

Worrying about what the Anti-English Spectrum thinks of what we do is as useful as worrying about what the Westboro Baptist church thinks about your new thong. Haters gonna hate and they'd leap at any chance to criticise. Most people don't take them seriously anyhow. Why? Because they want their kids to learn English. At least they want their kids to have the same chance as those who attend hakwons which is why public school positions still exist.

If/when public school positions eventually dry up, it won't be because of some old lady with newspaper cuttings of what some English teacher did a decade ago hanging out at the subway, it will be because of economic reasons or lack of cost efficiency (grades not going up enough for all the investment).

I couldn't care less about this because it will have no noticeable impact on my life. Never does. Oh, I go for a medical and pee into a cup? Big deal. Teaching at home I might do that anyway.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

We are not "guests" in Korea. Korea didn't invite us over for Pimms in the garden. We are paid employees.

Offline madison79

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1130
  • Gender: Male
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2012, 11:12:19 AM »
It completely astounds me why anyone would want to come here to teach English, and smoke, shoot, or deal in drugs. Would you want someone on drugs teaching your children?

This is Korea! Get lost, go to Thailand, or drink a beer here and be happy. Yes, as we NETeachers slide further down the totem-pole, further than we are already viewed to be. I struggle to understand why-why-why?

C.

By every stat alcohol is the far worse drug but it's still legal.  Why is that? 

Offline Spongeblob

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 433
  • Gender: Male
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2012, 12:48:45 PM »
It completely astounds me why anyone would want to come here to teach English, and smoke, shoot, or deal in drugs. Would you want someone on drugs teaching your children?

This is Korea! Get lost, go to Thailand, or drink a beer here and be happy. Yes, as we NETeachers slide further down the totem-pole, further than we are already viewed to be. I struggle to understand why-why-why?

C.

By every stat alcohol is the far worse drug but it's still legal.  Why is that?
Legal Money making enterprise that has been around for centuries versus a line drawn in the sand ethic targeting dope as the gateway drug to other much more harmful drugs.  Is dope harmful yes but far less so then smoking cigars, drinking alcohol and even coffee.  Dope didn't make the legal team because it came too late to the money making party.  Arguable and debatable but them the basics.  Best to avoid them all if you can.  Good luck. (Opens a can of Kimchi pasted parsley and offers everyone some.)  :)

Offline peasgoodnonsuch

  • Moderator - LVL 2
  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *
  • Posts: 1162
  • Gender: Female
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2012, 12:58:55 PM »
Ugh. This is so annoying. And for those of you who think it's not going to impact us, may I remind you of the Anti-English Spectrum folks and their buddies? The idiots may not be a majority, but they have the ear of enough politicians to have already impacted our lives.

The majority doesn't always make the policy and reason doesn't always reign. Should we have to worry about whether a few stupid potheads should affect our lives? No. Do we have to? Unfortunately, yes. Let's not confuse our ideals with reality folks.

I would also like to point out how every time a gyopo does something good they're "Korean" and every time they do something bad their other nationality takes precedence. The police also seem to be ignoring the fact that quite a few of the clients and one distributor were KOREAN.   ::)

Worrying about what the Anti-English Spectrum thinks of what we do is as useful as worrying about what the Westboro Baptist church thinks about your new thong. Haters gonna hate and they'd leap at any chance to criticise. Most people don't take them seriously anyhow. Why? Because they want their kids to learn English. At least they want their kids to have the same chance as those who attend hakwons which is why public school positions still exist.

If/when public school positions eventually dry up, it won't be because of some old lady with newspaper cuttings of what some English teacher did a decade ago hanging out at the subway, it will be because of economic reasons or lack of cost efficiency (grades not going up enough for all the investment).

I couldn't care less about this because it will have no noticeable impact on my life. Never does. Oh, I go for a medical and pee into a cup? Big deal. Teaching at home I might do that anyway.

Um...I think you missed my point and the points of others on this thread. It's not that anyone here cares about what people like AES think about us. They could bad mouth foreigners all they want if their words fell on deaf ears. It's that these and other xenophobes here have political POWER. They have already and will continue to use their xenophobic feelings to influence policies that will directly affect our lives. It's not mere offensive barking, there's a bite that comes with it.

This is not just an issue of public school jobs being cut, either. They have and will continue to make laws that affect all of our abilities to obtain visas and even affect our daily lives. For example, xenophobes can affect judges' decisions towards foreigners who end up in court on trumped up charges. Heck, the judges themselves are often the xenophobes.

When people commit stupid crimes such as this most recent one it gives more weight to prejudiced LEGAL decisions. It also helps create public support for such xenophobic decisions. Do not underestimate the ability of mothers to be irrationally and loudly fearful. As Korea makes it's transition to jury based decisions in courts, public opinion is going to matter a heck of a lot more for foreigners. Furthermore, one must take into account that Korea is a young democracy with a history of being a military dictatorship and police state.

Not only does this article mention police will step up efforts specifically targeting foreigners, but there was another article recently about the police designating certain "zones" in Seoul where they will make greater concerted efforts to patrol specifically for foreigner crime because more foreigner crime is statistically committed in those areas. It is not a hyperbolic concern to posit that random police checks on the street and foreigner curfews in certain districts could be in the future.

And even if not, we're highly likely to see an increase in prejudiced, groundless arrests of foreigners. So what if you didn't commit an actual crime? Maybe you were just being really loud and drunk in public or maybe you weren't even drunk at all. People have been arrested for nothing here just because a Korean is the accuser and a foreigner is the accused.  An arrest is enough to make you lose your job and your visa regardless of the truth behind the accusation or even the court's ultimate decision.

People who are annoyed by foolish, legit crimes by English teachers here are not concerned because "people don't like us now". We're concerned about the palpable policy changes these crimes and the biased coverage of them have contributed to and the further policy changes they may continue to contribute to.

Offline confusedsafferinkorea

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4182
  • Gender: Male
  • The only thing that is constant in life, is change
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2012, 01:38:51 PM »
Ugh. This is so annoying. And for those of you who think it's not going to impact us, may I remind you of the Anti-English Spectrum folks and their buddies? The idiots may not be a majority, but they have the ear of enough politicians to have already impacted our lives.

The majority doesn't always make the policy and reason doesn't always reign. Should we have to worry about whether a few stupid potheads should affect our lives? No. Do we have to? Unfortunately, yes. Let's not confuse our ideals with reality folks.

I would also like to point out how every time a gyopo does something good they're "Korean" and every time they do something bad their other nationality takes precedence. The police also seem to be ignoring the fact that quite a few of the clients and one distributor were KOREAN.   ::)

Worrying about what the Anti-English Spectrum thinks of what we do is as useful as worrying about what the Westboro Baptist church thinks about your new thong. Haters gonna hate and they'd leap at any chance to criticise. Most people don't take them seriously anyhow. Why? Because they want their kids to learn English. At least they want their kids to have the same chance as those who attend hakwons which is why public school positions still exist.

If/when public school positions eventually dry up, it won't be because of some old lady with newspaper cuttings of what some English teacher did a decade ago hanging out at the subway, it will be because of economic reasons or lack of cost efficiency (grades not going up enough for all the investment).

I couldn't care less about this because it will have no noticeable impact on my life. Never does. Oh, I go for a medical and pee into a cup? Big deal. Teaching at home I might do that anyway.

Um...I think you missed my point and the points of others on this thread. It's not that anyone here cares about what people like AES think about us. They could bad mouth foreigners all they want if their words fell on deaf ears. It's that these and other xenophobes here have political POWER. They have already and will continue to use their xenophobic feelings to influence policies that will directly affect our lives. It's not mere offensive barking, there's a bite that comes with it.

This is not just an issue of public school jobs being cut, either. They have and will continue to make laws that affect all of our abilities to obtain visas and even affect our daily lives. For example, xenophobes can affect judges' decisions towards foreigners who end up in court on trumped up charges. Heck, the judges themselves are often the xenophobes.

When people commit stupid crimes such as this most recent one it gives more weight to prejudiced LEGAL decisions. It also helps create public support for such xenophobic decisions. Do not underestimate the ability of mothers to be irrationally and loudly fearful. As Korea makes it's transition to jury based decisions in courts, public opinion is going to matter a heck of a lot more for foreigners. Furthermore, one must take into account that Korea is a young democracy with a history of being a military dictatorship and police state.

Not only does this article mention police will step up efforts specifically targeting foreigners, but there was another article recently about the police designating certain "zones" in Seoul where they will make greater concerted efforts to patrol specifically for foreigner crime because more foreigner crime is statistically committed in those areas. It is not a hyperbolic concern to posit that random police checks on the street and foreigner curfews in certain districts could be in the future.

And even if not, we're highly likely to see an increase in prejudiced, groundless arrests of foreigners. So what if you didn't commit an actual crime? Maybe you were just being really loud and drunk in public or maybe you weren't even drunk at all. People have been arrested for nothing here just because a Korean is the accuser and a foreigner is the accused.  An arrest is enough to make you lose your job and your visa regardless of the truth behind the accusation or even the court's ultimate decision.

People who are annoyed by foolish, legit crimes by English teachers here are not concerned because "people don't like us now". We're concerned about the palpable policy changes these crimes and the biased coverage of them have contributed to and the further policy changes they may continue to contribute to.

Well said, that about sums it up.
Everything is not as it seems.

No one owes you anything.... get over it.

NEVER think a failure is the end of the world, it is the beginning of a new opportunity.

The earth is flat....... I think, ha ha ha !!

There is no known medical cure for stupidity!

Offline Frozencat99

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • #MoonPrincess
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2012, 02:09:15 PM »
Do we have any proof that an Anti-English Spectrum protest or lobby group is demonstrably linked with a more stringent measure against foreigners? I'd like to see some before I just accept it as fact because someone well-spoken managed to say so.
Beware the Homosexual Industrial Complex -- http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-june-17-2013/left-behind

You can leave your heterophobia behind.

Offline jimmyeatworldwar

  • Super Waygook
  • ***
  • Posts: 277
  • Gender: Male
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2012, 02:34:43 PM »
Do we have any proof that an Anti-English Spectrum protest or lobby group is demonstrably linked with a more stringent measure against foreigners? I'd like to see some before I just accept it as fact because someone well-spoken managed to say so.

I am pretty sure that there isn't any "Anti English Spectrum" lobby group in korea..

Offline woman-king

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1161
  • Gender: Female
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2012, 02:47:19 PM »
Ugh. This is so annoying. And for those of you who think it's not going to impact us, may I remind you of the Anti-English Spectrum folks and their buddies? The idiots may not be a majority, but they have the ear of enough politicians to have already impacted our lives.

The majority doesn't always make the policy and reason doesn't always reign. Should we have to worry about whether a few stupid potheads should affect our lives? No. Do we have to? Unfortunately, yes. Let's not confuse our ideals with reality folks.

I would also like to point out how every time a gyopo does something good they're "Korean" and every time they do something bad their other nationality takes precedence. The police also seem to be ignoring the fact that quite a few of the clients and one distributor were KOREAN.   ::)

Worrying about what the Anti-English Spectrum thinks of what we do is as useful as worrying about what the Westboro Baptist church thinks about your new thong. Haters gonna hate and they'd leap at any chance to criticise. Most people don't take them seriously anyhow. Why? Because they want their kids to learn English. At least they want their kids to have the same chance as those who attend hakwons which is why public school positions still exist.

If/when public school positions eventually dry up, it won't be because of some old lady with newspaper cuttings of what some English teacher did a decade ago hanging out at the subway, it will be because of economic reasons or lack of cost efficiency (grades not going up enough for all the investment).

I couldn't care less about this because it will have no noticeable impact on my life. Never does. Oh, I go for a medical and pee into a cup? Big deal. Teaching at home I might do that anyway.

Um...I think you missed my point and the points of others on this thread. It's not that anyone here cares about what people like AES think about us. They could bad mouth foreigners all they want if their words fell on deaf ears. It's that these and other xenophobes here have political POWER. They have already and will continue to use their xenophobic feelings to influence policies that will directly affect our lives. It's not mere offensive barking, there's a bite that comes with it.

This is not just an issue of public school jobs being cut, either. They have and will continue to make laws that affect all of our abilities to obtain visas and even affect our daily lives. For example, xenophobes can affect judges' decisions towards foreigners who end up in court on trumped up charges. Heck, the judges themselves are often the xenophobes.

When people commit stupid crimes such as this most recent one it gives more weight to prejudiced LEGAL decisions. It also helps create public support for such xenophobic decisions. Do not underestimate the ability of mothers to be irrationally and loudly fearful. As Korea makes it's transition to jury based decisions in courts, public opinion is going to matter a heck of a lot more for foreigners. Furthermore, one must take into account that Korea is a young democracy with a history of being a military dictatorship and police state.

Not only does this article mention police will step up efforts specifically targeting foreigners, but there was another article recently about the police designating certain "zones" in Seoul where they will make greater concerted efforts to patrol specifically for foreigner crime because more foreigner crime is statistically committed in those areas. It is not a hyperbolic concern to posit that random police checks on the street and foreigner curfews in certain districts could be in the future.

And even if not, we're highly likely to see an increase in prejudiced, groundless arrests of foreigners. So what if you didn't commit an actual crime? Maybe you were just being really loud and drunk in public or maybe you weren't even drunk at all. People have been arrested for nothing here just because a Korean is the accuser and a foreigner is the accused.  An arrest is enough to make you lose your job and your visa regardless of the truth behind the accusation or even the court's ultimate decision.

People who are annoyed by foolish, legit crimes by English teachers here are not concerned because "people don't like us now". We're concerned about the palpable policy changes these crimes and the biased coverage of them have contributed to and the further policy changes they may continue to contribute to.

Thank you, Peas.

This is Korea, folks.  The structure is innately hierarchical in all institutions.  All it takes is for one of these cops to be the brother or BFF of the top dog in someone's school district, or for one Anti-English Spectrum guy to be a person of influence in some other area related to immigration or education, and serious ramifications could occur.   The example of increased police suspicion of foreigners partying out in Hongdae or Itaewon, for example, is spot on--I really dislike the idea of having extra police attention or suspicion directed at foreigners here, or giving any leverage to someone who wanted to make false accusations against foreigners.  Again, breaking the law is different from simply just doing things Koreans find weird or annoying.  No one's saying we should all stop dating Koreans or wearing tank tops in the summer or going out and partying just to keep up appearances.

I'm out of here in a few months, and I'm sure many of us are also on a limited time-frame, but I recognize that for someone trying to build a long-term life in the Korean education industry, the way these kinds of events can build up, over time, to influence people actually making decisions does definitely matter.   

Offline woman-king

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1161
  • Gender: Female
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2012, 02:51:36 PM »
Do we have any proof that an Anti-English Spectrum protest or lobby group is demonstrably linked with a more stringent measure against foreigners? I'd like to see some before I just accept it as fact because someone well-spoken managed to say so.

I'm not, personally, concerned about them "lobbying" in a political sense, but more that people who are in the Anti-English Spectrum/similar groups could also be individuals of influence within school districts or what have you.  Now they have one more piece of "foreigners are corrupting Korea" evidence to pull out of their arsenal--and unlike other petty complaints that many might smile and nod at, this is a bit more serious.  Is it the end of the world/English teachers in Korea?  No.  Is it potentially problematic?  I think so.

Offline Frozencat99

  • The Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • #MoonPrincess
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2012, 03:26:49 PM »
Do we have any proof that an Anti-English Spectrum protest or lobby group is demonstrably linked with a more stringent measure against foreigners? I'd like to see some before I just accept it as fact because someone well-spoken managed to say so.

I'm not, personally, concerned about them "lobbying" in a political sense, but more that people who are in the Anti-English Spectrum/similar groups could also be individuals of influence within school districts or what have you.  Now they have one more piece of "foreigners are corrupting Korea" evidence to pull out of their arsenal--and unlike other petty complaints that many might smile and nod at, this is a bit more serious.  Is it the end of the world/English teachers in Korea?  No.  Is it potentially problematic?  I think so.

My only issue with this is that it is indeed just potential. The AES are potentially powerful if they are able to persuade particular politicians and school board directors about the malevolent foreinger. There is a potential that policies will change regarding our employment, especially with random drug testing. There is a potential that this is one of the major strikes that'll be used to vastly downsize EPIK. Yet, there is potential that this will make absolutely no difference. While I'm always wary of the political image NETs convey in this country, this isn't the first and won't be the last drug related incident regarding foreigners in Korea.

While they certainly aren't adding anything positive to the discussion of foreigner drug crime in Korea, they're just adding a few more numbers to the pile. According to the statistics in this post, http://rokdrop.com/2007/12/27/comparative-analysis-of-korean-and-foreigner-drug-rates/, 197 foreigners were arrested for drug crimes. Many of them were covered in the news and the AES probably knows each of the NETs by name.

I'm just not persuaded that the potential for this case to be used as a problematic political tool against us is that high. I'm not claiming to be right, or that anyone here is mistaken, I'm just not overtly worried that this will push us into dangerous territory. They can't really do much more with the security checks, other than random and/or monthly drug tests, anyhow.

This "drug ring" (a bit overstated for sensationalism) is also a sign of the weakness of Korean customs and of their trust of Korean nationals, though I doubt that will carry any political weight.
Beware the Homosexual Industrial Complex -- http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-june-17-2013/left-behind

You can leave your heterophobia behind.

Offline flasyb

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1908
  • Gender: Male
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2012, 03:27:03 PM »
Ugh. This is so annoying. And for those of you who think it's not going to impact us, may I remind you of the Anti-English Spectrum folks and their buddies? The idiots may not be a majority, but they have the ear of enough politicians to have already impacted our lives.

The majority doesn't always make the policy and reason doesn't always reign. Should we have to worry about whether a few stupid potheads should affect our lives? No. Do we have to? Unfortunately, yes. Let's not confuse our ideals with reality folks.

I would also like to point out how every time a gyopo does something good they're "Korean" and every time they do something bad their other nationality takes precedence. The police also seem to be ignoring the fact that quite a few of the clients and one distributor were KOREAN.   ::)

Worrying about what the Anti-English Spectrum thinks of what we do is as useful as worrying about what the Westboro Baptist church thinks about your new thong. Haters gonna hate and they'd leap at any chance to criticise. Most people don't take them seriously anyhow. Why? Because they want their kids to learn English. At least they want their kids to have the same chance as those who attend hakwons which is why public school positions still exist.

If/when public school positions eventually dry up, it won't be because of some old lady with newspaper cuttings of what some English teacher did a decade ago hanging out at the subway, it will be because of economic reasons or lack of cost efficiency (grades not going up enough for all the investment).

I couldn't care less about this because it will have no noticeable impact on my life. Never does. Oh, I go for a medical and pee into a cup? Big deal. Teaching at home I might do that anyway.

Um...I think you missed my point and the points of others on this thread. It's not that anyone here cares about what people like AES think about us. They could bad mouth foreigners all they want if their words fell on deaf ears. It's that these and other xenophobes here have political POWER. They have already and will continue to use their xenophobic feelings to influence policies that will directly affect our lives. It's not mere offensive barking, there's a bite that comes with it.

This is not just an issue of public school jobs being cut, either. They have and will continue to make laws that affect all of our abilities to obtain visas and even affect our daily lives. For example, xenophobes can affect judges' decisions towards foreigners who end up in court on trumped up charges. Heck, the judges themselves are often the xenophobes.

When people commit stupid crimes such as this most recent one it gives more weight to prejudiced LEGAL decisions. It also helps create public support for such xenophobic decisions. Do not underestimate the ability of mothers to be irrationally and loudly fearful. As Korea makes it's transition to jury based decisions in courts, public opinion is going to matter a heck of a lot more for foreigners. Furthermore, one must take into account that Korea is a young democracy with a history of being a military dictatorship and police state.

Not only does this article mention police will step up efforts specifically targeting foreigners, but there was another article recently about the police designating certain "zones" in Seoul where they will make greater concerted efforts to patrol specifically for foreigner crime because more foreigner crime is statistically committed in those areas. It is not a hyperbolic concern to posit that random police checks on the street and foreigner curfews in certain districts could be in the future.

And even if not, we're highly likely to see an increase in prejudiced, groundless arrests of foreigners. So what if you didn't commit an actual crime? Maybe you were just being really loud and drunk in public or maybe you weren't even drunk at all. People have been arrested for nothing here just because a Korean is the accuser and a foreigner is the accused.  An arrest is enough to make you lose your job and your visa regardless of the truth behind the accusation or even the court's ultimate decision.

People who are annoyed by foolish, legit crimes by English teachers here are not concerned because "people don't like us now". We're concerned about the palpable policy changes these crimes and the biased coverage of them have contributed to and the further policy changes they may continue to contribute to.

Well said, that about sums it up.

No it doesn't.

Peas, you're a poster who frequently makes well thought out and strong arguments but I'm not sure about this one. I'll go through this one paragraph at a time.

1. Who are these xenophobes with this political "POWER"? Any democratic system is going to have people for and against government policy. Those against the EPIK and other English programs in Korea might indeed be motivated by xenophobic feelings and I'm sure there will be some politicians who want all the foreigners out of Korea. How many people there are in these positions of "POWER" will depend on what boxes South Koreans cross at the ballot box. If popular feeling goes towards those more nationalistic ideas then they'll shake up the system.

2. "xenophobes can affect judges' decisions towards foreigners" - example/citation please. I suspect these things happen as well but an example or two would go a long way here. I know public opinion carries weight in Korea with the recent pressure to give heavier sentences to convicted sex offenders but judges usually go along with the prescribed recommended sentencing. I'm thoroughly unconvinced by the argument that a few guys getting caught buying and selling grass will lead to greater sentences for people convicted of other crimes.

3. "When people commit stupid crimes such as this most recent one it gives more weight to prejudiced LEGAL decisions." - I'm thoroughly unconvinced by the argument that a few guys getting caught buying and selling grass will lead to greater sentences for people convicted of other or even the same crimes.

4. "Police increase patrols in crime heavy areas" is hardly news and is precisely what they should be doing. Remember that we're less than 1% of the immigrant population so in all likelihood, they're not out on the prowl to net NETs who actually commit proportionally fewer crimes than the Korean population but rather they are patrolling areas where the immigrant population commits proportionally more crimes than the Korean population. Exactly what they should be doing.

5. An arrest can be enough for an employer to let you go in Korea if your employer doesn't like you already and that is worrying and there are people who claim to have been arrested for nothing but more often than not there's "more to the story" that the one telling it lets on.
"...we're highly likely to see an increase in prejudiced, groundless arrests of foreigners." - Again, do you mean foreigners or NETs? I find it highly unlikely that there will be a massive NET shakedown after this. In fact, I'll do a Romney and bet you 10,000 right now that no such shakedown on NETs ever happens - won of course  ;). A bank transfer 6 months from now. All I need are you sort code and your bank account details  ;D.

6. Policy changes shmolishmy shmanges. So we pee in a cup every year and get finger printed. That's just Korea catching up with the rest of the developed world. If you want to work in the UK, you'll need to give this "bio-metric information" already anyway. Keeping track of immigration is a popular trend at the moment around the world. Kicking out immigrants who commit crimes is also favoured. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

To me, peas, your post is infected with paranoia. "The xenophobes are out to get us. They're in POWER. Be careful because the xenophobes will get YOU next." Nah, they won't. Don't worry folks, the xenophobes in POWER who pull the judges' strings aren't after you.

Cuts have been and may still be made to various English programs across Korea. It won't be because a few of us do some stupid stuff. It'll be because after trillions of won, Korea has barely moved in the OECD rankings for English while for significantly less extra investment they are among the world leaders at taking exams in Maths and Science. I say taking exams because we're not necessarily to blame for this massive waste of public money. However, that's for another thread I think.

Basically, if we all lose our jobs tomorrow, it won't be because of the xenophobes in POWER, it'll be for economic reasons and because we haven't given enough bang for our buck (through, I believe, no fault of our own).
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

We are not "guests" in Korea. Korea didn't invite us over for Pimms in the garden. We are paid employees.

Offline donuts81

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 667
  • Gender: Male
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2012, 03:28:16 PM »

Offline woman-king

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1161
  • Gender: Female
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2012, 03:36:35 PM »
Do we have any proof that an Anti-English Spectrum protest or lobby group is demonstrably linked with a more stringent measure against foreigners? I'd like to see some before I just accept it as fact because someone well-spoken managed to say so.

I'm not, personally, concerned about them "lobbying" in a political sense, but more that people who are in the Anti-English Spectrum/similar groups could also be individuals of influence within school districts or what have you.  Now they have one more piece of "foreigners are corrupting Korea" evidence to pull out of their arsenal--and unlike other petty complaints that many might smile and nod at, this is a bit more serious.  Is it the end of the world/English teachers in Korea?  No.  Is it potentially problematic?  I think so.

My only issue with this is that it is indeed just potential. The AES are potentially powerful if they are able to persuade particular politicians and school board directors about the malevolent foreinger. There is a potential that policies will change regarding our employment, especially with random drug testing. There is a potential that this is one of the major strikes that'll be used to vastly downsize EPIK. Yet, there is potential that this will make absolutely no difference. While I'm always wary of the political image NETs convey in this country, this isn't the first and won't be the last drug related incident regarding foreigners in Korea.

While they certainly aren't adding anything positive to the discussion of foreigner drug crime in Korea, they're just adding a few more numbers to the pile. According to the statistics in this post, http://rokdrop.com/2007/12/27/comparative-analysis-of-korean-and-foreigner-drug-rates/, 197 foreigners were arrested for drug crimes. Many of them were covered in the news and the AES probably knows each of the NETs by name.

I'm just not persuaded that the potential for this case to be used as a problematic political tool against us is that high. I'm not claiming to be right, or that anyone here is mistaken, I'm just not overtly worried that this will push us into dangerous territory. They can't really do much more with the security checks, other than random and/or monthly drug tests, anyhow.

This "drug ring" (a bit overstated for sensationalism) is also a sign of the weakness of Korean customs and of their trust of Korean nationals, though I doubt that will carry any political weight.

Well, sure.  We can't predict the future, but we can make guesses about possible outcomes.  :D

ETA: Agreed that this it's the a buildup of many drug-related incidences with foreigners, not just one, that is the problem--that is how I was thinking through it all along.  The fact that the police announced they were essentially going to be profiling foreigners more intensely sticks out at me, though, and that's really the comment that concerns me.  The thought of cops stopping me in the middle of the night in Itaewon demanding to seach me for pot is, shall we say, really unpleasant.  That's the kind of thing I think is likely to increase, as police want to make their efforts against these "drugs rings" (of course it's sensationalized language) visible to the Korean public.  Job-related stuff is less likely, I'd agree, but I think it often takes fewer people--just those at the top of the hierarchy--to make certain decisions here, so if the wrong person gets the wrong idea, well, there you go.  It won't keep me awake at night, but I'm still annoyed by how dumb these guys were. 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 03:58:34 PM by woman-king »

Offline woman-king

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1161
  • Gender: Female
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2012, 03:46:31 PM »
Ugh. This is so annoying. And for those of you who think it's not going to impact us, may I remind you of the Anti-English Spectrum folks and their buddies? The idiots may not be a majority, but they have the ear of enough politicians to have already impacted our lives.

The majority doesn't always make the policy and reason doesn't always reign. Should we have to worry about whether a few stupid potheads should affect our lives? No. Do we have to? Unfortunately, yes. Let's not confuse our ideals with reality folks.

I would also like to point out how every time a gyopo does something good they're "Korean" and every time they do something bad their other nationality takes precedence. The police also seem to be ignoring the fact that quite a few of the clients and one distributor were KOREAN.   ::)

Worrying about what the Anti-English Spectrum thinks of what we do is as useful as worrying about what the Westboro Baptist church thinks about your new thong. Haters gonna hate and they'd leap at any chance to criticise. Most people don't take them seriously anyhow. Why? Because they want their kids to learn English. At least they want their kids to have the same chance as those who attend hakwons which is why public school positions still exist.

If/when public school positions eventually dry up, it won't be because of some old lady with newspaper cuttings of what some English teacher did a decade ago hanging out at the subway, it will be because of economic reasons or lack of cost efficiency (grades not going up enough for all the investment).

I couldn't care less about this because it will have no noticeable impact on my life. Never does. Oh, I go for a medical and pee into a cup? Big deal. Teaching at home I might do that anyway.

Um...I think you missed my point and the points of others on this thread. It's not that anyone here cares about what people like AES think about us. They could bad mouth foreigners all they want if their words fell on deaf ears. It's that these and other xenophobes here have political POWER. They have already and will continue to use their xenophobic feelings to influence policies that will directly affect our lives. It's not mere offensive barking, there's a bite that comes with it.

This is not just an issue of public school jobs being cut, either. They have and will continue to make laws that affect all of our abilities to obtain visas and even affect our daily lives. For example, xenophobes can affect judges' decisions towards foreigners who end up in court on trumped up charges. Heck, the judges themselves are often the xenophobes.

When people commit stupid crimes such as this most recent one it gives more weight to prejudiced LEGAL decisions. It also helps create public support for such xenophobic decisions. Do not underestimate the ability of mothers to be irrationally and loudly fearful. As Korea makes it's transition to jury based decisions in courts, public opinion is going to matter a heck of a lot more for foreigners. Furthermore, one must take into account that Korea is a young democracy with a history of being a military dictatorship and police state.

Not only does this article mention police will step up efforts specifically targeting foreigners, but there was another article recently about the police designating certain "zones" in Seoul where they will make greater concerted efforts to patrol specifically for foreigner crime because more foreigner crime is statistically committed in those areas. It is not a hyperbolic concern to posit that random police checks on the street and foreigner curfews in certain districts could be in the future.

And even if not, we're highly likely to see an increase in prejudiced, groundless arrests of foreigners. So what if you didn't commit an actual crime? Maybe you were just being really loud and drunk in public or maybe you weren't even drunk at all. People have been arrested for nothing here just because a Korean is the accuser and a foreigner is the accused.  An arrest is enough to make you lose your job and your visa regardless of the truth behind the accusation or even the court's ultimate decision.

People who are annoyed by foolish, legit crimes by English teachers here are not concerned because "people don't like us now". We're concerned about the palpable policy changes these crimes and the biased coverage of them have contributed to and the further policy changes they may continue to contribute to.

Well said, that about sums it up.

No it doesn't.

Peas, you're a poster who frequently makes well thought out and strong arguments but I'm not sure about this one. I'll go through this one paragraph at a time.

1. Who are these xenophobes with this political "POWER"? Any democratic system is going to have people for and against government policy. Those against the EPIK and other English programs in Korea might indeed be motivated by xenophobic feelings and I'm sure there will be some politicians who want all the foreigners out of Korea. How many people there are in these positions of "POWER" will depend on what boxes South Koreans cross at the ballot box. If popular feeling goes towards those more nationalistic ideas then they'll shake up the system.

2. "xenophobes can affect judges' decisions towards foreigners" - example/citation please. I suspect these things happen as well but an example or two would go a long way here. I know public opinion carries weight in Korea with the recent pressure to give heavier sentences to convicted sex offenders but judges usually go along with the prescribed recommended sentencing. I'm thoroughly unconvinced by the argument that a few guys getting caught buying and selling grass will lead to greater sentences for people convicted of other crimes.

3. "When people commit stupid crimes such as this most recent one it gives more weight to prejudiced LEGAL decisions." - I'm thoroughly unconvinced by the argument that a few guys getting caught buying and selling grass will lead to greater sentences for people convicted of other or even the same crimes.

4. "Police increase patrols in crime heavy areas" is hardly news and is precisely what they should be doing. Remember that we're less than 1% of the immigrant population so in all likelihood, they're not out on the prowl to net NETs who actually commit proportionally fewer crimes than the Korean population but rather they are patrolling areas where the immigrant population commits proportionally more crimes than the Korean population. Exactly what they should be doing.

5. An arrest can be enough for an employer to let you go in Korea if your employer doesn't like you already and that is worrying and there are people who claim to have been arrested for nothing but more often than not there's "more to the story" that the one telling it lets on.
"...we're highly likely to see an increase in prejudiced, groundless arrests of foreigners." - Again, do you mean foreigners or NETs? I find it highly unlikely that there will be a massive NET shakedown after this. In fact, I'll do a Romney and bet you 10,000 right now that no such shakedown on NETs ever happens - won of course  ;). A bank transfer 6 months from now. All I need are you sort code and your bank account details  ;D.

6. Policy changes shmolishmy shmanges. So we pee in a cup every year and get finger printed. That's just Korea catching up with the rest of the developed world. If you want to work in the UK, you'll need to give this "bio-metric information" already anyway. Keeping track of immigration is a popular trend at the moment around the world. Kicking out immigrants who commit crimes is also favoured. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

To me, peas, your post is infected with paranoia. "The xenophobes are out to get us. They're in POWER. Be careful because the xenophobes will get YOU next." Nah, they won't. Don't worry folks, the xenophobes in POWER who pull the judges' strings aren't after you.

Cuts have been and may still be made to various English programs across Korea. It won't be because a few of us do some stupid stuff. It'll be because after trillions of won, Korea has barely moved in the OECD rankings for English while for significantly less extra investment they are among the world leaders at taking exams in Maths and Science. I say taking exams because we're not necessarily to blame for this massive waste of public money. However, that's for another thread I think.

Basically, if we all lose our jobs tomorrow, it won't be because of the xenophobes in POWER, it'll be for economic reasons and because we haven't given enough bang for our buck (through, I believe, no fault of our own).

Peas can respond to your points, but I will say I don't think you need examples in this case because we live with all the examples we really need every day, which is the hierarchical structure of Korean workplaces.  It's not hard to imagine one influential person making a decision related to NETs based on personal prejudice about NETs, or at least not for me. 

In terms of police patrolling, I will say: I am a bit of a police-paranoid.  I try to give them the benefit of the doubt and understand they do an important and difficult job and I get that mistakes will get made in high-pressure situations like the ones they face every day.  But I'm still the kind of person who will brake every time I see a police car, and I rarely speed.  Their level of power is pretty intimidating--and this is how I feel about them in my own country (the States).  I'm fine with them patrolling areas of higher foreigner crime (or higher crime by anyone), but the idea that we're under greater suspicion and may be subject to more stops and searches is disturbing to me.  I just strongly dislike the idea of being on their radar screen.

Idk, do you really not think public perception gets back to decision-makers?  I mean, again . . . it's Korea, collective opinions tend to be more collective than what we're used to and the whole in-group/out-group dynamic is pretty strong.  I don't think we sound all that paranoid, just concerned.

ETA: Oh, I don't think we're going to lose our jobs tomorrow and I don't think anyone is saying that, either.  I think that's interpreting our concern too strongly.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 03:48:12 PM by woman-king »

Offline sejongthefabulous

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Gender: Male
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2012, 03:50:51 PM »
These teachers who were dealing drugs now have a chance to deal with the Korean legal system, I hope they learn their lesson. I also hope this serves as a warning to other foreigners who are doing drugs or thinking about doing drugs in Korea.
Whenever a foreigner gets caught doing something illegal and anti-social, it provides a case example of a crime. It also increases the numbers for bad statistics. Fortunately most rational people realize a couple case example and statistics alone shouldn't be used to target an entire population. It is also known that statistically the crime rate for NETs is much lower than the general population. I wonder about the rate when compared to Korean teachers? I also wonder which specific crimes occur at a much higher rate for NETs? I bet drugs are one of them, so their cause for worry is justified. Drugs tests are only required when applying for a new E2 visa, so it's a one shot deal. This is useless for determining who does drugs after this single test. I wouldn't be strongly against laws requiring a free drug test once a year for target groups. Although it reminds me of testing for drugs among welfare patients and just reeks of reckless policy making. If your boss suspects you of doing drugs he can ask you for a check or fire you, if you do it on the weekends or holidays, you aren't a direct threat to your students anyway. Hopefully if it happens, it becomes less expensive and more convenient. Parents can know their teachers aren't doing drugs, teachers can have evidence that they aren't doing drugs, politicians can claim they are protecting citizens, and drug testing companies can make more money, it's a win-win situation for everyone.
Over 99% of people worldwide are foreigners...chilling thought

Offline flasyb

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1908
  • Gender: Male
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2012, 03:53:52 PM »
@ Womanking

Yeah, "tomorrow" was meant with a more non-literal "tomorrow = future" kind of meaning.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

We are not "guests" in Korea. Korea didn't invite us over for Pimms in the garden. We are paid employees.

marsavalanche

  • Guest
Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2012, 04:02:48 PM »
These teachers who were dealing drugs now have a chance to deal with the Korean legal system, I hope they learn their lesson. I also hope this serves as a warning to other foreigners who are doing drugs or thinking about doing drugs in Korea.
Whenever a foreigner gets caught doing something illegal and anti-social, it provides a case example of a crime. It also increases the numbers for bad statistics. Fortunately most rational people realize a couple case example and statistics alone shouldn't be used to target an entire population. It is also known that statistically the crime rate for NETs is much lower than the general population. I wonder about the rate when compared to Korean teachers? I also wonder which specific crimes occur at a much higher rate for NETs? I bet drugs are one of them, so their cause for worry is justified. Drugs tests are only required when applying for a new E2 visa, so it's a one shot deal. This is useless for determining who does drugs after this single test. I wouldn't be strongly against laws requiring a free drug test once a year for target groups. Although it reminds me of testing for drugs among welfare patients and just reeks of reckless policy making. If your boss suspects you of doing drugs he can ask you for a check or fire you, if you do it on the weekends or holidays, you aren't a direct threat to your students anyway. Hopefully if it happens, it becomes less expensive and more convenient. Parents can know their teachers aren't doing drugs, teachers can have evidence that they aren't doing drugs, politicians can claim they are protecting citizens, and drug testing companies can make more money, it's a win-win situation for everyone.

LMAO

Subjecting foreigner teachers and not the Korean ones to random drug tests is a win win for everyone.

Where are you from buddy?

Go back to the Korean Sentry.  You're out of your mind if you actually believe the garbage you just posted.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 04:06:20 PM by marsavalanche »

 

Recent Lesson Plans

halloween bomb game by Mr C
[Today at 12:00:24 AM]


Sleeping Elephants PPT for an Open Class by Mr C
[Yesterday at 11:49:39 PM]


Halloween Lesson Plans and crafts? by ShanaC
[Yesterday at 09:52:17 PM]


65 new DINGBATS/What's the Word slides - Good for Warmups, Time-fillers, etc by stemarty
[Yesterday at 07:07:11 PM]


Fannee Doolee by ahnh87
[Yesterday at 06:14:31 PM]

Buy/Sell/Trade

Employment