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Author Topic: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana  (Read 10587 times)

Offline andyfoggy

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2012, 07:29:30 AM »
no

Offline justanotherwaygook

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2012, 09:17:01 AM »
Is it legal to buy/use in Thailand?

No, but the punishment is minimal.

20 years for simple possession.

Death for trafficking.
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Offline Suza

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2012, 09:32:36 AM »
Just wondering, other than the herald, did this story actually make the korean newspapers, or any other more reliable source?

Yes, it made the Korean newspapers. I'm forget which one. The story is shown with a photo of a big bag of white powder (coke)?!!

Offline minamteacher

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2012, 10:37:27 AM »
Is it legal to buy/use in Thailand?

Nope, it's illegal there to.

Offline plchron

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2012, 10:39:07 AM »
In law school or pre law classes we learn that there are two kinds of laws. Statutorily prohibited actions and 'mala se' (inherently evil actions). Laws are made based around these two concepts. Speeding is obviously statutorily prohibited. Speeding isn't evil, but we can still face criminal sanctions for it. Murder, rape, burglary or any other crimes with a victim are considered 'mala se' (considered eveil by an overwhelming majority of society).

The disconnect a lot of NETs see in korea is that drug laws are implemented because drugs are seen as inherently evil. No matter how rational any korean may seem, if they grew up here then they were socialized to believe that drugs are evil. On the other hand, you have NETs that come from a culture where smoking weed either isn't seen as any type of crime or is seen as only being statutorily prohibited (like running a red light).

So for those of you that express surprise, outrage, and disgust that pot smokers are being treated so harshly when caught, you have to remember that psychologically (most) koreans think of them in the same group as murderers, rapists, and theives because they were socialized from an early age to believe this fallacy.
 

Offline Frozencat99

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2012, 11:15:39 AM »
In law school or pre law classes we learn that there are two kinds of laws. Statutorily prohibited actions and 'mala se' (inherently evil actions). Laws are made based around these two concepts. Speeding is obviously statutorily prohibited. Speeding isn't evil, but we can still face criminal sanctions for it. Murder, rape, burglary or any other crimes with a victim are considered 'mala se' (considered eveil by an overwhelming majority of society).

The disconnect a lot of NETs see in korea is that drug laws are implemented because drugs are seen as inherently evil. No matter how rational any korean may seem, if they grew up here then they were socialized to believe that drugs are evil. On the other hand, you have NETs that come from a culture where smoking weed either isn't seen as any type of crime or is seen as only being statutorily prohibited (like running a red light).

So for those of you that express surprise, outrage, and disgust that pot smokers are being treated so harshly when caught, you have to remember that psychologically (most) koreans think of them in the same group as murderers, rapists, and theives because they were socialized from an early age to believe this fallacy.

I'm outraged at the NETs that believe the fallacy. At least the Koreans have an excuse.
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Offline Peekay1982

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2012, 12:20:47 PM »
In law school or pre law classes we learn that there are two kinds of laws. Statutorily prohibited actions and 'mala se' (inherently evil actions). Laws are made based around these two concepts. Speeding is obviously statutorily prohibited. Speeding isn't evil, but we can still face criminal sanctions for it. Murder, rape, burglary or any other crimes with a victim are considered 'mala se' (considered eveil by an overwhelming majority of society).

The disconnect a lot of NETs see in korea is that drug laws are implemented because drugs are seen as inherently evil. No matter how rational any korean may seem, if they grew up here then they were socialized to believe that drugs are evil. On the other hand, you have NETs that come from a culture where smoking weed either isn't seen as any type of crime or is seen as only being statutorily prohibited (like running a red light).

So for those of you that express surprise, outrage, and disgust that pot smokers are being treated so harshly when caught, you have to remember that psychologically (most) koreans think of them in the same group as murderers, rapists, and theives because they were socialized from an early age to believe this fallacy.

I'm outraged at the NETs that believe the fallacy. At least the Koreans have an excuse.

Like a lot of Korean culture, the current attitude to marihuanabis has been very specifically and deliberately formulated in the recent past. Don't forget, until 1976 you could buy weed in the street at markets here. Hanbok and the new year's bow are two other good examples of "traditional" Korean cultural artifacts which have been introduced in modern times.

As a side topic, the daddies at the top of Korean society (starting with Bak Jeong-hee and continuing through to the present day with Yi Myeong-bak/Yi Geon-hee etc) have decided that Koreans wouldn't be able to control their use of recreational substances apart from alcohol. In the west we generally see nannyish attitudes from the people in charge as patronising and insulting - but in Korea's case, I'm not sure they don't have a point. We've all seen how well Koreans handle their alcohol, and a friend of mine told me that when casinos were widespread here they'd have 24-hour car and clothes shops next to them as the patrons literally sold the shirts off their backs chasing losses. So perhaps Korean society as a whole wouldn't be able to cope with access to anything other than Cass-eu and soju. In the west personal use of recreational substances other than alcohol is mostly illegal but rarely a police priority - a bit like drunk-driving here.

Offline donuts81

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2012, 12:32:46 PM »
Ummm ok, so it turns out no E-2 visa holders were arrested at all.

It was our brothers and sisters on F-4 visas getting into trouble again.

http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2012/02/closer-look-at-fridays-hagwon.html

Oh, and as a bonus it turns out there were a whole bunch of extremely rich kids involved who were either barely mentioned or who were listed as office workers.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 12:37:27 PM by donuts81 »

Offline flasyb

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2012, 01:22:14 PM »
Ummm ok, so it turns out no E-2 visa holders were arrested at all.

It was our brothers and sisters on F-4 visas getting into trouble again.

http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2012/02/closer-look-at-fridays-hagwon.html

Oh, and as a bonus it turns out there were a whole bunch of extremely rich kids involved who were either barely mentioned or who were listed as office workers.

Classic misreporting in every sense by the Korean press. From the emphasis put on native teachers to the picture of the "drugs."
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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Offline woman-king

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2012, 01:39:21 PM »
Ummm ok, so it turns out no E-2 visa holders were arrested at all.

It was our brothers and sisters on F-4 visas getting into trouble again.

http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2012/02/closer-look-at-fridays-hagwon.html

Oh, and as a bonus it turns out there were a whole bunch of extremely rich kids involved who were either barely mentioned or who were listed as office workers.

Damn.  So has THIS been picked up on in any real detail by the Korean media?

And they have even less excuse than a dumb kid holding an F-2 visa who assumes--like a previous poster said--that Western ideas about marijuana use being a sort of mild infraction hold true everywhere. 

OK, so does this mean cops will turn their attention to F-4 visa holders exploiting their unique position in Korea to bring in drugs?  That would be, at a very selfish level, a much better scenario for most NETs.

Offline plchron

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2012, 02:35:48 PM »
This isn't racist but so we are clear, Not one white or black person was arrested? They were all in some shape or form Koreans?

Offline flasyb

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2012, 02:43:24 PM »
This isn't racist but so we are clear, Not one white or black person was arrested? They were all in some shape or form Koreans?

I think so but a foreign English teacher is still a foreign English teacher bringing "the drugs" and their "druggy culture" from outside of Hanguk. Of course, as a journalist you have to ask yourself "what's the story?" Is the story a few rich kids bought some drugs or is the that some foreigners who get paid to teach your kids were importing and selling drugs? It's no surprise that's what they're going to run with because that's what's going to sell the paper(s).
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Offline donuts81

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #73 on: February 21, 2012, 05:11:26 PM »
OK, so does this mean cops will turn their attention to F-4 visa holders exploiting their unique position in Korea to bring in drugs?
::)

I would think something more like this.....
... a foreign English teacher is still a foreign English teacher bringing "the drugs" and their "druggy culture" from outside of Hanguk.

There seems to be some major mental gymnastics around the whole F-4 visa situation when someone with an F-4 visa breaks the law.
I (sarcastically) imagine it works something like this,

Korean-Canadian has Korean heritage and so does not require stringent F-4 visa regulation.
Korean-Canadian commits a crime of some kind.
No longer Korean-Canadian but now transforms entirely into a Canadian. (through witchcraft I believe)
Canadians hold E-2 visas.
E-2 visa requirements need strengthened. 

I'm going to apologize to both Korean-Canadians and Canadians (although I guess technically you are the same thing); I had to use somebodies nationality for the example.

Offline bulgasari

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2012, 11:21:21 PM »
Ummm ok, so it turns out no E-2 visa holders were arrested at all.

It was our brothers and sisters on F-4 visas getting into trouble again.

http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2012/02/closer-look-at-fridays-hagwon.html

Seeing as I wrote that blog post, I should probably make clear that I said "If the teachers are 'Canadian and American citizens of Korean ethnicity,' then it's much more likely that they are F-4 visa holders." We don't know if they are or not. Judging by comments made by the police about how hagwons hiring foreign instructors "must receive a 'medical report' including drug test results, but this is often ignored," it would make sense if at least some of them are, but we don't know for sure. Some of them may have been E-2. Of course, the media always lumps F-visa criminals in with E-2s, so that's nothing new.

I'm not sure if periodic testing is an idea that would go far. The current, new improved tests (which are only a year old) cost about $100 a pop. While I wouldn't put it past the government to impose such tests and make the teachers pay for them (again), even the gov't might realize that would be a bit of a kick in the teeth, which would then make the alternative of paying at least 2 million dollars to test every E-2 teacher an extra time a year a bit daunting. But who knows. When it comes to 'western bandits,' as we were called in the Chosun Dynasty, no measure seems to be enough. Instead of one HIV/drug test per visa, HIV and drug testing every year (for public school teachers), instead of a TPBE test, one with marijuana, and then instead of those, a new form of testing. The same attitudes exist towards US soldiers, but we don't have the SOFA as a buffer.

As for Anti English Spectrum, while you don't want to exaggerate their importance, they do have the ears of some national assembly members and people within the government. It was they who were responsible for two high-profile articles in 2006 and 2007 which linked foreign teachers to AIDS - the only time they were ever really linked - and then used those articles as the basis of petitions to the Ministry of Justice before being invited by the MoJ to the policy meeting in 2007 (after Christopher Paul Neil was arrested) which decided on the HIV tests (among other things) we have to take now.
This is all covered in detail here: http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2009/09/how-to-make-foreign-english-teachers.html
HIV testing would never have been an issue if not for AES, and they've been petitioning the government to keep them in place.

Offline jurassic82

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #75 on: February 22, 2012, 09:12:09 AM »
Ummm ok, so it turns out no E-2 visa holders were arrested at all.

It was our brothers and sisters on F-4 visas getting into trouble again.

http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2012/02/closer-look-at-fridays-hagwon.html

Seeing as I wrote that blog post, I should probably make clear that I said "If the teachers are 'Canadian and American citizens of Korean ethnicity,' then it's much more likely that they are F-4 visa holders." We don't know if they are or not. Judging by comments made by the police about how hagwons hiring foreign instructors "must receive a 'medical report' including drug test results, but this is often ignored," it would make sense if at least some of them are, but we don't know for sure. Some of them may have been E-2. Of course, the media always lumps F-visa criminals in with E-2s, so that's nothing new.

I'm not sure if periodic testing is an idea that would go far. The current, new improved tests (which are only a year old) cost about $100 a pop. While I wouldn't put it past the government to impose such tests and make the teachers pay for them (again), even the gov't might realize that would be a bit of a kick in the teeth, which would then make the alternative of paying at least 2 million dollars to test every E-2 teacher an extra time a year a bit daunting. But who knows. When it comes to 'western bandits,' as we were called in the Chosun Dynasty, no measure seems to be enough. Instead of one HIV/drug test per visa, HIV and drug testing every year (for public school teachers), instead of a TPBE test, one with marijuana, and then instead of those, a new form of testing. The same attitudes exist towards US soldiers, but we don't have the SOFA as a buffer.

As for Anti English Spectrum, while you don't want to exaggerate their importance, they do have the ears of some national assembly members and people within the government. It was they who were responsible for two high-profile articles in 2006 and 2007 which linked foreign teachers to AIDS - the only time they were ever really linked - and then used those articles as the basis of petitions to the Ministry of Justice before being invited by the MoJ to the policy meeting in 2007 (after Christopher Paul Neil was arrested) which decided on the HIV tests (among other things) we have to take now.
This is all covered in detail here: http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2009/09/how-to-make-foreign-english-teachers.html
HIV testing would never have been an issue if not for AES, and they've been petitioning the government to keep them in place.

I really don't get why people are so pissed about the HIV test on the health check. It is pretty standard in other countries as well when getting a VISA.  Yes, The Anti English Spectrum website/group is nutz and their xenophobic rhetoric is really annoying and obnoxious. These kind of groups exist in all of our countries. There is nothing unique about them. Instead of constantly stressing out we should just ignore them and not give them the attention that they are seeking. Let's not flatter ourselves. This isn't Orwell's 1984 and "Big Brother" isn't watching us. The CBC and Health check involving an AIDS and Drug test is nothing new.  Most developed countries have similar requirments when foriegners have tried getting a work VISA. It's not xenophobic or racist just the government trying to protect it's citizens. I honestly don't think the Korean Government is full of  fear mongoring politicians out to expell all the foriegners in Korea and protect the Korean race. As for the blog, it is a bunch of nonsense and another waygook trying to put together a story on his personal blog and call himself a journalist.  I am sure 99% of Koreans don't really care what we do as long as we stay out of trouble and teach their children. I really doubt they are sitting in coffee shops with their friends discussing how bad foriegners are in Korea and how we are all spreading AIDS. Yes, you do have your racist, xenophobic Koreans but no more than I would find some racist, bigoted American talking about Muslims in post 9/11 America or some Aussie talking trash about Aborigines. These people are everywhere and it is best to ignore them (and contrary to popular belief, it is really easy to do if you have a life!!!). I'm finished.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 11:26:38 AM by jurassic82 »

Offline woman-king

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #76 on: February 22, 2012, 11:34:13 AM »
Ummm ok, so it turns out no E-2 visa holders were arrested at all.

It was our brothers and sisters on F-4 visas getting into trouble again.

http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2012/02/closer-look-at-fridays-hagwon.html

Seeing as I wrote that blog post, I should probably make clear that I said "If the teachers are 'Canadian and American citizens of Korean ethnicity,' then it's much more likely that they are F-4 visa holders." We don't know if they are or not. Judging by comments made by the police about how hagwons hiring foreign instructors "must receive a 'medical report' including drug test results, but this is often ignored," it would make sense if at least some of them are, but we don't know for sure. Some of them may have been E-2. Of course, the media always lumps F-visa criminals in with E-2s, so that's nothing new.

I'm not sure if periodic testing is an idea that would go far. The current, new improved tests (which are only a year old) cost about $100 a pop. While I wouldn't put it past the government to impose such tests and make the teachers pay for them (again), even the gov't might realize that would be a bit of a kick in the teeth, which would then make the alternative of paying at least 2 million dollars to test every E-2 teacher an extra time a year a bit daunting. But who knows. When it comes to 'western bandits,' as we were called in the Chosun Dynasty, no measure seems to be enough. Instead of one HIV/drug test per visa, HIV and drug testing every year (for public school teachers), instead of a TPBE test, one with marijuana, and then instead of those, a new form of testing. The same attitudes exist towards US soldiers, but we don't have the SOFA as a buffer.

As for Anti English Spectrum, while you don't want to exaggerate their importance, they do have the ears of some national assembly members and people within the government. It was they who were responsible for two high-profile articles in 2006 and 2007 which linked foreign teachers to AIDS - the only time they were ever really linked - and then used those articles as the basis of petitions to the Ministry of Justice before being invited by the MoJ to the policy meeting in 2007 (after Christopher Paul Neil was arrested) which decided on the HIV tests (among other things) we have to take now.
This is all covered in detail here: http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2009/09/how-to-make-foreign-english-teachers.html
HIV testing would never have been an issue if not for AES, and they've been petitioning the government to keep them in place.


Great clarification and wonderful succinct summary with actual examples on the Anti-English Spectrum's level of real influence which we've been debating here.  I find it especially interesting that they created articles and then used them to gather petition support and get in on actual policy meetings.  They can write and get signatures and be included in certain decision-making processes, just like any activist-type group, and it seems like it would be silly to entirely dismiss them. 

Offline flasyb

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #77 on: February 22, 2012, 12:05:15 PM »
Ummm ok, so it turns out no E-2 visa holders were arrested at all.

It was our brothers and sisters on F-4 visas getting into trouble again.

http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2012/02/closer-look-at-fridays-hagwon.html

Seeing as I wrote that blog post, I should probably make clear that I said "If the teachers are 'Canadian and American citizens of Korean ethnicity,' then it's much more likely that they are F-4 visa holders." We don't know if they are or not. Judging by comments made by the police about how hagwons hiring foreign instructors "must receive a 'medical report' including drug test results, but this is often ignored," it would make sense if at least some of them are, but we don't know for sure. Some of them may have been E-2. Of course, the media always lumps F-visa criminals in with E-2s, so that's nothing new.

I'm not sure if periodic testing is an idea that would go far. The current, new improved tests (which are only a year old) cost about $100 a pop. While I wouldn't put it past the government to impose such tests and make the teachers pay for them (again), even the gov't might realize that would be a bit of a kick in the teeth, which would then make the alternative of paying at least 2 million dollars to test every E-2 teacher an extra time a year a bit daunting. But who knows. When it comes to 'western bandits,' as we were called in the Chosun Dynasty, no measure seems to be enough. Instead of one HIV/drug test per visa, HIV and drug testing every year (for public school teachers), instead of a TPBE test, one with marijuana, and then instead of those, a new form of testing. The same attitudes exist towards US soldiers, but we don't have the SOFA as a buffer.

As for Anti English Spectrum, while you don't want to exaggerate their importance, they do have the ears of some national assembly members and people within the government. It was they who were responsible for two high-profile articles in 2006 and 2007 which linked foreign teachers to AIDS - the only time they were ever really linked - and then used those articles as the basis of petitions to the Ministry of Justice before being invited by the MoJ to the policy meeting in 2007 (after Christopher Paul Neil was arrested) which decided on the HIV tests (among other things) we have to take now.
This is all covered in detail here: http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2009/09/how-to-make-foreign-english-teachers.html
HIV testing would never have been an issue if not for AES, and they've been petitioning the government to keep them in place.


Great clarification and wonderful succinct summary with actual examples on the Anti-English Spectrum's level of real influence which we've been debating here.  I find it especially interesting that they created articles and then used them to gather petition support and get in on actual policy meetings.  They can write and get signatures and be included in certain decision-making processes, just like any activist-type group, and it seems like it would be silly to entirely dismiss them.

I agree in that Popular Gusts of Feeling is easily one of the best blogs on Korea out there and I love the media focus.

However, I still think that the AES should largely be ignored. Anyone can whip up the mob at any time. If you don't have solutions or ideas on what can be "done" about groups like the AES (I don't have any as I think nothing can be done), then why worry? Best just to ignore them and get on with your life here in Korea. When it comes down to it, their influence on my life and the lives of most other NETs has been totally minimal as far as I can see (I stand to be corrected). The other option is to start worrying about the xenophobes in the shadows who go through your rubbish and pull the judges' puppet strings. I know which is better for my piece of mind.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

We are not "guests" in Korea. Korea didn't invite us over for Pimms in the garden. We are paid employees.

Offline Peekay1982

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #78 on: February 22, 2012, 12:36:20 PM »
Best just to ignore them and get on with your life here in Korea. When it comes down to it, their influence on my life and the lives of most other NETs has been totally minimal as far as I can see (I stand to be corrected). The other option is to start worrying about the xenophobes in the shadows who go through your rubbish and pull the judges' puppet strings. I know which is better for my piece of mind.

AES have gone through foreigners' rubbish and logged the contents - they posted about rummaging through a female NET's rubbish in Daegu and finding a used condom. While I don't think any of us should be going round living our lives in fear of them, they have affected policy in the past so staying aware of their activities is a good idea. I also find them endlessly compelling and fascinating, I have to admit. I feel the same way about most extremist groups; that their activities are a replacement for a social life and a distraction technique from some deep inadequacies.

Offline dapto1

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Re: Teachers Arrested for Dealing Marijuana
« Reply #79 on: February 22, 2012, 12:39:49 PM »
AES have gone through foreigners' rubbish and logged the contents - they posted about rummaging through a female NET's rubbish in Daegu and finding a used condom.
I wonder how they spun that? Good in that she is using condoms so she doesn't spread her filthy AIDS, or bad in that she is a foreign harlot corrupting the purity of Korea?

 

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