Sorry, I gotta rant...

[Cereal]

Last year I was using the Elementary School Books by Ji Hak Sa. I thought they were great, the chants were mostly cool and some were very catchy. The animation was awesome with kids dancing on highly polished wooden floors, great shadows and movements.

For some reason, as yet unexplained to me, they changed books this year. The lessons are flat out strange, the songs are poor with bizarre timing that is difficult for me to groove with at times and I have 25 years of drumming behind me. The animation makes South Park look like a Disney cartoon.

Even my Korean CT's finds them confusing.

They are called Elementary School English (years 3,4,5,6) and the covers are predominantly white with what can best be described as an acid trip gone horribly wrong covering the bottom left quadrant. The letters YBM appear at the bottom center. There seems to be at least 8 authors.

Why do they switch books? These ones are uninteresting to the kids, who all liked last year's books very much. No one at my school has been able to give me an answer. Could it have anything to do with the fact we have a new principal?

Oh yeah...I almost forgot. I teach Elementary twice a week and this year have 2 CT's, one for Wednesday and one for Friday. On Wednesday we teach the even chapters, on Fridays the odd numbered chapters, just to add to the confusion.

Can anyone shed anything logical on this bizarre situation?

[lotte world]

Can anyone shed anything logical on this bizarre situation?

They offered the biggest bribe.

[TheWB18]

I use the same book (I think).  It's the one by Maria Oh, right?

You'll get used to the terrible animation and cheesy songs.  I skip the songs/chants entirely, and try to limit the time I spend with the videos.  When I use them, I have the kids act out with the volume off and they enjoy mimicking the monotone voice acting or the ridiculous animated gestures of the "Story Time".

On the bright side, the other stuff in the book (the, um...activities) are OK.

[Chato]

My previous employer chose some terrible books that were not suited for the task of teaching online. We were told the decision was made because of some connections the publisher (or whoever was selling the books) had to one of our bosses.
This could be happening at your school as well.

[taingray]

We use the YBM books too and I can't stand them. It's like the writers never consulted a native English speaker to make sure the expressions and vocabulary are accurate.  I mean, wouldn't the assistance of a native speaker be the most basic part about writing and editing a foreign language textbook?  The sentence structure and expressions are so awkward and unnatural.  And the characters in the videos sound like robots.  I think some of the dialogue actually is a computerized voice speaking, not an actual person.  This just seems like laziness and carelessness to me.

And I definitely agree that the rhythms in the songs are so messed up that it's difficult for the students to catch all words and sing them correctly.  Like you said, the timing is terrible!  The one good thing is that the dancing and animation are so bad that my students actually find the songs somewhat amusing to watch.  We've started having mini dance/chant competitions with the songs that the kids really seem to enjoy  :)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't like these books!

P.S. Has anyone else noticed that they sometimes use Christmas music in the background during the videos?  Also, why does the animated Malik have a beard in some of the videos???  These writers need to be slapped repeatedly.

[Cereal]

Yeah! And the music sounds like it was recorded from a $99.00 WalMart organ.

The video where the little boy was practicing for a dance contest had the entire class, including me and the co-teacher, in stitches.

[Jrong]

Cereal, you're not alone. My book's music also SUCKS. My book is "Daegyo". As a musician as well (not professional, but hey, not bad either) I can't stand the chants. No idea where the music is heading. It's like an improv jazz singalong for kids, which is an impossible thing.

Also, there are some stupid target phrases in the book. In one chapter, one of the 6th grade girl "characters" asks for a bunch of food and her "boyfriend" is like: "Are you sure? That's a lot!". Hell no, you don't say that to a girl, especially one you want to date. Turns out "Are you sure? That's a lot!" was target language repeated throughout the chapter. Facepalm. There are also phrases in the book that are grammatically incorrect.

Otherwise, I like my book. I picked it simply b/c it had the best design. Great drawings with good colour combinations and great patterns.

[zongal2012]

@jrong
I think that is meant to be her hippy father. He is always in green slippers and has the air of The Dude.

[Jrong]

No man, I'm talking about "Chris" and "Yuna" from the Daegyo 6th grade book.

[hiphopopotamus]

I use the Maria Oh book too for sixth grade and I know which dance you're talking about! Ha! In the same chapter (My Birthday is April 17th) if you view the subtitles during the Storyland segment, when Prince Anthony is freed from his jail the narrator says: "Bono helped Anthony" but the subtitles read: "Donkey helped Anthony".

Maybe there was a native speaker helping and he just had a bad grudge or was putting in inside jokes.

The chapter before has a glaring error in the beginning story (Spring Is Here). Seho says: "What a nice weather." WTF?

[Cereal]

Cereal, you're not alone. My book's music also SUCKS. My book is "Daegyo". As a musician as well (not professional, but hey, not bad either) I can't stand the chants. No idea where the music is heading. It's like an improv jazz singalong for kids, which is an impossible thing.

Also, there are some stupid target phrases in the book. In one chapter, one of the 6th grade girl "characters" asks for a bunch of food and her "boyfriend" is like: "Are you sure? That's a lot!". Hell no, you don't say that to a girl, especially one you want to date. Turns out "Are you sure? That's a lot!" was target language repeated throughout the chapter. Facepalm. There are also phrases in the book that are grammatically incorrect.

Otherwise, I like my book. I picked it simply b/c it had the best design. Great drawings with good colour combinations and great patterns.

 

Dig this!!! A savant, Matt savage, playing a tune in 33/8 time. I have read his parents are slowly going nuts!

[Janitor]

I have talked to a few people and also been a part of the book selection process at my own school and I want to shed some light on this strange process. Though, it won't change how horrible these books are...

First, I met a few of the voice actors for these textbooks and you are right, they do not consult any foreigner on the material before going to print. Basically, the books are written in Korean and then they are translated into English for the parts that the students have to sing or chant. The have basically an idea of a key phrase and they try to come up with as many "lessons" as they can with that key phrase in mind.

The problem is that they stick to a rigid format and if the phrase or whatever doesn't fit, it doesn't matter. Like our lessons at times where the school will push you to finish a book whether the students know the material or not, it is the same here. They have to create a lesson based on that phrase whether what they create makes sense or not.

Now, the selection process was interesting at my school. First a lot of the book reps were coming in and out of the school like house flies. We finally got called down to look at a pile of books (which I thought was great) and we chose the ones that we thought would be best for the classes. The younger teachers went through the books more carefully and chose ones that seemed more interesting for the students. The older teachers breezed in and tried to go with ones that they have used before, despite the multitude of errors and moronic activities. Thus arguments arose and we finally went with one new book and used the same crappy books from the past years....

What I would like to see are book publishers working with actual ESL teachers IN KOREA. I am not sure who this Thomas Orr guy is but he deserves a strong talking to! From what I hear though, most foreigners that are involved with the creation of these materials are mainly just the voice actors that are told to read exactly from the script. I had one friend tell the company that what he was reading was grammatically wrong and also sounded weird and he offered to correct it for them and they just told him "please read what we WROTE, EXACTLY"

At any rate, I really just want to have the book publishers at least sit down with the teachers and go through the books so that they know what works and can improve on them in future editions. Something so I am not teaching random phrases and showing animations so bad that we end up just reading the script.

[orangeman]

I hate these new YBM books, too.  I just taught Grade 6 chapter 3 (part 5&6).  Among other things, here are some glaring mistakes and problems:

1) At the end of the 'story' it states, "They lived happily."  What?  Do you mean they lived happily ever after?  Was there a time limit and you got cut off?

2) At the end of the writing part it again states, "The lived happily again."  When did they live happily beforehand?  What's going on?!

3) Throughout the whole chapter the use of, "My birthday is coming" sounds strange.  I would say, "My birthday is coming up."  When I say, "Christmas is coming" it sounds ok, but really only in that case.  Maybe it's a British thing (the use of 'match' instead of 'game' indicates British English, although it switches from one to the other so much its hard to keep track).

4)  This isn't unique just to this book, but I hate that Korean textbooks keep forcing this idea that you should start a letter as:

Dear So-and-so,

Hi. blah blah blah.

It is my understanding that the 'dear' is the 'hi', so it is really redundant and unnecessary.  Same with ending it with 'bye' and then saying 'your friend, so-and-so'.  Again, redundant. 

5) The use of the BIG FOUR to start most sentences: and, but, so, because. For some reason Koreans tend to believe these are the only four words that can be used to start a sentence (when in fact they very, very rarely ever should, especially in academia) and this book just reinforces that idea.  Example:
"There was (characters).  But Kyle was bad.  So Anthony couldn't go to the wedding."

Gun to head. 

7) Besides that, the point wasn't that Anthony couldn't go to the wedding.  The point was that he was held prisoner while Kyle kidnapped his girlfriend and was forcing her to marry him.  I don't think the fact that he wasn't saved a piece of the cake was his problem.  However, it is nice that in 2012 Korean textbooks still find it necessary to reinforce such outdated gender roles.  The poor stupid woman, willing to get married to whatever man decides to show up.  But that's another matter.

[orangeman]

I have talked to a few people and also been a part of the book selection process at my own school and I want to shed some light on this strange process. Though, it won't change how horrible these books are...

First, I met a few of the voice actors for these textbooks and you are write, they do not consult any foreigner on the material before going to print. Basically, the books are written in Korean and then they are translated into English for the parts that the students have to sing or chant. The have basically an idea of a key phrase and they try to come up with as many "lessons" as they can with that key phrase in mind.

The problem is that they stick to a rigid format and if the phrase or whatever doesn't fit, it doesn't matter. Like our lessons at times where the school will push you to finish a book whether the students know the material or not, it is the same here. They have to create a lesson based on that phrase whether what they create makes sense or not.

Now, the selection process was interesting at my school. First a lot of the book reps were coming in and out of the school like house flies. We finally got called down to look at a pile of books (which I thought was great) and we chose the ones that we thought would be best for the classes. The younger teachers went through the books more carefully and chose ones that seemed more interesting for the students. The older teachers breezed in and tried to go with ones that they have used before, despite the multitude of errors and moronic activities. Thus arguments arose and we finally went with one new book and used the same crappy books from the past years....

What I would like to see are book publishers working with actual ESL teachers IN KOREA. I am not sure who this Thomas Orr guy is but he deserves a strong talking to! From what I hear though, most foreigners that are involved with the creation of these materials are mainly just the voice actors that are told to read exactly from the script. I had one friend tell the company that what he was reading was grammatically wrong and also sounded weird and he offered to correct it for them and they just told him "please read what we WROTE, EXACTLY"

At any rate, I really just want to have the book publishers at least sit down with the teachers and go through the books so that they know what works and can improve on them in future editions. Something so I am not teaching random phrases and showing animations so bad that we end up just reading the script.

I have done some voice acting in Korea, though not for public school textbooks.  I have other friends that have, as well.  It is true that you are told to only read from the text and to never correct anything.  The text is usually obviously written by a Korean and it makes it difficult to read and perform when there are so many grammatical errors in it.  As native speakers we usually anticipate the words, but if a sentence is wrong, it makes it sound very awkward.  Not only that, but most of the times I have gone in and recorded, I was not with any of the other voice actors nor was I given any context.  I was simply given my lines (not even the entire script).  As you can imagine, this makes it extremely difficult to actually, you know, ACT.  I've noticed on these textbook CDs often the intonation or stress is wrong given the context and the conversation seems to be choppy instead of natural, but now I understand why that is.  Basically, everything is the typical bbali bbali! Don't question the superiors!  Korean mentality.  But then you get blamed if anything goes wrong. 

[lotte world]

I am not sure who this Thomas Orr guy is but he deserves a strong talking to!

You can try, but you might not get much of a response.  AFAIK he died two years ago.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sacbee/obituary-preview.aspx?n=thomas-edward-orr&pid=144257720&referrer=106

[Jrong]

Cereal, you're not alone. My book's music also SUCKS. My book is "Daegyo". As a musician as well (not professional, but hey, not bad either) I can't stand the chants. No idea where the music is heading. It's like an improv jazz singalong for kids, which is an impossible thing.

Also, there are some stupid target phrases in the book. In one chapter, one of the 6th grade girl "characters" asks for a bunch of food and her "boyfriend" is like: "Are you sure? That's a lot!". Hell no, you don't say that to a girl, especially one you want to date. Turns out "Are you sure? That's a lot!" was target language repeated throughout the chapter. Facepalm. There are also phrases in the book that are grammatically incorrect.

Otherwise, I like my book. I picked it simply b/c it had the best design. Great drawings with good colour combinations and great patterns.

 

Dig this!!! A savant, Matt savage, playing a tune in 33/8 time. I have read his parents are slowly going nuts!

Yep, sounds just like my textbook songs,  ha ha! If I wasn't going nuts already from those songs I would be now. :)

[taingray]

I hate these new YBM books, too.  I just taught Grade 6 chapter 3 (part 5&6).  Among other things, here are some glaring mistakes and problems:

1) At the end of the 'story' it states, "They lived happily."  What?  Do you mean they lived happily ever after?  Was there a time limit and you got cut off?

2) At the end of the writing part it again states, "The lived happily again."  When did they live happily beforehand?  What's going on?!

3) Throughout the whole chapter the use of, "My birthday is coming" sounds strange.  I would say, "My birthday is coming up."  When I say, "Christmas is coming" it sounds ok, but really only in that case.  Maybe it's a British thing (the use of 'match' instead of 'game' indicates British English, although it switches from one to the other so much its hard to keep track).

4)  This isn't unique just to this book, but I hate that Korean textbooks keep forcing this idea that you should start a letter as:

Dear So-and-so,

Hi. blah blah blah.

It is my understanding that the 'dear' is the 'hi', so it is really redundant and unnecessary.  Same with ending it with 'bye' and then saying 'your friend, so-and-so'.  Again, redundant. 

5) The use of the BIG FOUR to start most sentences: and, but, so, because. For some reason Koreans tend to believe these are the only four words that can be used to start a sentence (when in fact they very, very rarely ever should, especially in academia) and this book just reinforces that idea.  Example:
"There was (characters).  But Kyle was bad.  So Anthony couldn't go to the wedding."

Gun to head. 

7) Besides that, the point wasn't that Anthony couldn't go to the wedding.  The point was that he was held prisoner while Kyle kidnapped his girlfriend and was forcing her to marry him.  I don't think the fact that he wasn't saved a piece of the cake was his problem.  However, it is nice that in 2012 Korean textbooks still find it necessary to reinforce such outdated gender roles.  The poor stupid woman, willing to get married to whatever man decides to show up.  But that's another matter.

Yes about the Big Four thing!  I hate how in Lesson 2 of the sixth grade book the writing activities forces them to write incomplete sentences: "I like fall.  Because the weather is cool.  Because I can see beautiful leaves."  My god, how can they be making and allowing such obvious, glaring errors in a textbook?!

Also, I watched the Doil dance today that a few people mentioned... 

[deanitsin]

I've actually really lucked out and about two years ago, my school switched to some pretty decent books. Before that, they were terrible. Now, they're at way too high of a level for our students, but the material is reasonable enough that I can pare it down and simplify to come up with some pretty nice speaking activities for the kids, with a decent amount of variety.

I don't know how the CD is, because I've never touched it. I'm middle school, so there's no need for songs and chants. I just make my own PPTs to go along with each chapter, and we do our own thing, so any misused English I can easily correct in my own version of things. Those CDs are pretty much universally horrible, from what I've seen, and the  middle school level ones at least don't do anything the native speaking English teacher can't do better.

[Cereal]

The Doil dance is freaking hilarious.

I also find the conversations, animated or with people, seem to cut out very suddenly. As well, there are several errors on the CD's, you check a question correctly and it tells you you are wrong.

Very poor quality.

[theTazz]

I use the Daegyo books at my first school and the Frances Sohn books at my other school.

On the whole I really like Daegyo - I used the grade 3 and 4 books last year and never had any problems with them. But three lessons in to the grade 5 and 6 books and it's clear they never bothered to ask a native speaker to cast an eye over the material. How do you let phrases like "Let's go with us" and "It's very delicious" and "I have a Korean class" get taught to kids?!

The Frances Sohn books are okay, but the third lesson (I have a fever) has this gem of a Konglishism: "You should take a rest."

Seriously. There are enough NS in this country; couldn't they find just one to check their books for dreadful errors like these?!?