Author Topic: Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished  (Read 24309 times)

Offline happytrickster

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #180 on: July 27, 2011, 08:11:59 am »
I think that there are a lot of people who would rather not have us here... and the fact that we are here making what we make is causing a LOT of resentment. It doesn't really have anything to do with education so that's not really even worth talking about. The one universal constant in education everywhere is ego-- and Korea is no different. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether we're 'effective' or if native speakers work or not... because if that were the case then perhaps they would be more set on actively trying to design a coherent program for us and not just have us sitting around wondering if we're doing it right while our co-teachers try to make us over into glorified clown acts. Most teachers give up on actually caring about education about 5 years after they start teaching... it's a fact. I saw it back home as well, they'll bring up 'the kids' when they want to get what they want... but education is maybe 10% about the kids and 90% about the adults... just like everything else in life, with a few rare exceptions. 

I would even go so far as to say that the majority of KOREANS-- not just co-teachers, not just principals, vice principals, superintendents, etc, but also normal everyday Koreans... are completely 100% against the idea of native speakers being able to live the kinds of lives we live here. They don't like the idea that foreign workers are being paid more than Korean workers, plain and simple. They don't like that we're being handed the kind of money at 23 that they've worked for ten years to get. A wide-eyed 23 year old can come to Korea, get walked over by the kids, 'improvise' structureless activities every day, and be at the same salary level as a 38 year old educated perfectionist who not only commands the respect of the kids but is also actively involved in their lives. There are so many things that are wrong with that... but at the same time, that's how it is. 

The system has set us up to elicit nothing but resentment-- the only disappointing thing is that instead of demanding better conditions for themselves, everyone demands 'revenge' and wants to kick us out... some of them going so far as to willfully sabotage us as if they wouldn't jump at the opportunity we have if it were presented to them. They're not even really angry at us (or they think they are and shouldn't be), they're just angry at the system because they feel betrayed by it--- and they have been. It's similar to the US beef protests a while ago-- and we're the beef.

I think there's actually a lot of hope in Korea that when 2013 rolls around the new president will dispose of us all completely... it's what happens when recessions hit and people start to feel desperate-- they start choosing their targets, and along with 2MB, we're the most obvious. To be fair, I don't think that the lack of training, guidance and curriculum help to make us seem any more professional... mix that with Korean nationalistic groupthink and low English proficiency scores, then there's going to be some pretty serious power struggles going on.

[MOD EDIT: Trolling removed]
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 04:39:35 pm by Sara Teacher »

Offline Burndog

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #181 on: July 27, 2011, 08:18:58 am »
I think there's actually a lot of hope in Korea that when 2013 rolls around the new president will dispose of us all completely... it's what happens when recessions hit and people start to feel desperate-- they start choosing their targets, and along with 2MB, we're the most obvious. To be fair, I don't think that the lack of training, guidance and curriculum help to make us seem any more professional... mix that with Korean nationalistic groupthink and low English proficiency scores, then there's going to be some pretty serious power struggles going on.

I think that the most obvious targets during this recession are factory workers from SE Asian countries who 'take low paid jobs from Koreans'.  That pillar of solid journalism, The Korea Times, has an article about it today.  Ever so slightly off topic...but worth looking into nonetheless...as I'm sure that once these xenophobes get over their current hard-on for low paid migrant workers...then they're sure to become more vocal about their opposition to us.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/07/117_91655.html

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Offline flasyb

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #183 on: July 27, 2011, 09:33:28 am »
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/07/117_91688.html

Sounds like a smart move if the new KETs really are up to scratch and don't just start speaking in Korean constantly during class.
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Offline woman-king

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #184 on: July 27, 2011, 09:53:27 am »
I think that there are a lot of people who would rather not have us here... and the fact that we are here making what we make is causing a LOT of resentment. It doesn't really have anything to do with education so that's not really even worth talking about. The one universal constant in education everywhere is ego-- and Korea is no different. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether we're 'effective' or if native speakers work or not... because if that were the case then perhaps they would be more set on actively trying to design a coherent program for us and not just have us sitting around wondering if we're doing it right while our co-teachers try to make us over into glorified clown acts. Most teachers give up on actually caring about education about 5 years after they start teaching... it's a fact. I saw it back home as well, they'll bring up 'the kids' when they want to get what they want... but education is maybe 10% about the kids and 90% about the adults... just like everything else in life, with a few rare exceptions. 

I would even go so far as to say that the majority of KOREANS-- not just co-teachers, not just principals, vice principals, superintendents, etc, but also normal everyday Koreans... are completely 100% against the idea of native speakers being able to live the kinds of lives we live here. They don't like the idea that foreign workers are being paid more than Korean workers, plain and simple. They don't like that we're being handed the kind of money at 23 that they've worked for ten years to get. A wide-eyed 23 year old can come to Korea, get walked over by the kids, 'improvise' structureless activities every day, and be at the same salary level as a 38 year old educated perfectionist who not only commands the respect of the kids but is also actively involved in their lives. There are so many things that are wrong with that... but at the same time, that's how it is. 

The system has set us up to elicit nothing but resentment-- the only disappointing thing is that instead of demanding better conditions for themselves, everyone demands 'revenge' and wants to kick us out... some of them going so far as to willfully sabotage us as if they wouldn't jump at the opportunity we have if it were presented to them. They're not even really angry at us (or they think they are and shouldn't be), they're just angry at the system because they feel betrayed by it--- and they have been. It's similar to the US beef protests a while ago-- and we're the beef.

I think there's actually a lot of hope in Korea that when 2013 rolls around the new president will dispose of us all completely... it's what happens when recessions hit and people start to feel desperate-- they start choosing their targets, and along with 2MB, we're the most obvious. To be fair, I don't think that the lack of training, guidance and curriculum help to make us seem any more professional... mix that with Korean nationalistic groupthink and low English proficiency scores, then there's going to be some pretty serious power struggles going on.

QUOTE REMOVED

"Just leave then!" is never a valid response when someone raises legitimate points. 

I will say, to Hilarity, that I think resentment is a bit part of the overall xenophobia at work here in the GPC, but I don't believe we actually make more than long-term professional teachers...I think there are threads elsewhere on Waygook that discuss this.  Counting our apartments we may well make more than other new teachers our own age though.

But you're right, looking at it from a big-picture perspective.  There's a lot of apathy in education in all countries, which is what I think feeds the whole hands-tying, enforced-clown-act thing with many NETs.  I can definitely understand someone looking at the current program and thinking that NETs could be used more effectively as teachers--given better training, given a more structure to follow--having some kind of standardized curriculum for all Native teachers would be a huge asset, IMO.  I still really believe strongly that the true value of NETs is in our ability to put a name and a face on Western culture for Koreans, who tend to overgeneralize, misunderstand and by turns, idolize or demonize it.  Korean teachers with even perfect English skills, robots and people on Skype can't provide the sort of cross-cultural experience Korea needs if it wants to grow into a respected global player.  But honestly, beyond perhaps a few ideological politicians, I don't really think that's what Korea wants at all.  I think Korea wants to obtain the (perceived) luxurious lifestyles of Westerners, and perhaps impress the West with their success, but they want to remain culturally isolated.  That's their right, ultimately, and they seem to pull off a sort of self-contained yet thriving economy pretty well for now.  I still think the isolation is going to be detrimental to their future in the long run though.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 04:42:27 pm by Sara Teacher »

Offline me

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #185 on: July 27, 2011, 02:54:01 pm »
 "I think Korea wants to obtain the (perceived) luxurious lifestyles of Westerners, and perhaps impress the West with their success, but they want to remain culturally isolated."

I agree!

Offline tinyaqua85

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #186 on: July 27, 2011, 03:43:11 pm »
What is the luxurious lifestyles of Westerners?? oh my..

Offline hilarity ensues

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #187 on: July 27, 2011, 03:58:06 pm »
QUOTE REMOVED

Almost all of what I have said came straight from the mouth of my Korean co-teacher yesterday-- which is also almost completely identical to what my LAST co-teacher used to tell me, and also identical to what a lot of STRANGERS have said to me while out drinking. After you hear it a few times, you start to believe it.

This has nothing to do with anyone hating me or me hating anyone-- the person who told me this is someone who is a very good friend and I think the world of her, and she seems to like me too... but yeah, surprise surprise at the same time she also thinks that NETs are a huge waste of money and would probably vote to get rid of me if she could. And for some extremely strange reason I don't think she's completely alone... mostly because she has a mouth and a brain and can communicate with other people and share opinions... oh, and it's in the newspapers-- not just the ones you can read either.

Caring about or having an opinion about my future in Korea definitely doesn't mean I have any less right to be here than you. So next time before you decide that you need to add the most cliched and brainless love-it-or-leave-it redneck response in the history of humans everywhere to a discussion that you've put zero thought into, ask yourself 'does ANYONE actually need to hear this comment for the millionth time'? Or for god's sake, put some sort of humorous or interesting spin on it so at least it would be somewhat worth reading. Or actually don't, because you probably couldn't do it right anyway, DUDE.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 05:03:37 pm by Sara Teacher »
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Offline actualstarfish

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #188 on: July 27, 2011, 04:08:57 pm »
Korean teachers with even perfect English skills, robots and people on Skype can't provide the sort of cross-cultural experience Korea needs if it wants to grow into a respected global player.  But honestly, beyond perhaps a few ideological politicians, I don't really think that's what Korea wants at all.  I think Korea wants to obtain the (perceived) luxurious lifestyles of Westerners, and perhaps impress the West with their success, but they want to remain culturally isolated.  That's their right, ultimately, and they seem to pull off a sort of self-contained yet thriving economy pretty well for now.  I still think the isolation is going to be detrimental to their future in the long run though.

This is the crux of the matter right here. Many of us here have a few Korean friends or boyfriends/girlfriends who have a more globalized perspective and with whom we enjoy true connections with but these kinds of people unfortunately represent a very small minority of the Korean populace. Most Koreans find us a curiosity and want to learn our language for their own benefit but they don't really want us to stay or care about the cultural exchange aspect. The truth is that isolation is very much a part of their culture and we see that manifested in the education system as well.

I think this situation with GEPIK should serve as a warning to all teachers in Korea of the realities of our working here. What we should take away from it is this:  Enjoy yourselves, go out and meet as much people as you can while you're here and try to immerse yourself in Korean culture from time to time but know that our time here is ticking away so start working on some backup plans or alternate career paths for the future if you haven't already done so.

Offline jasminh78

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #189 on: July 27, 2011, 09:47:25 pm »
I just read in the Korean article that the reason behind the cuts is to make room for the "free lunch program" every student, rich or poor, will not have to pay for lunch starting next year and that's a big budget.

Offline jasminh78

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #190 on: July 27, 2011, 11:21:18 pm »
The budget cut is not only affecting NETs but the KETs (contract teachers like us).  The Office is cutting contact English teachers as well to make room for the "free lunch program".

Offline happytrickster

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #191 on: July 28, 2011, 08:24:32 am »
QUOTE REMOVED

Almost all of what I have said came straight from the mouth of my Korean co-teacher yesterday-- which is also almost completely identical to what my LAST co-teacher used to tell me, and also identical to what a lot of STRANGERS have said to me while out drinking. After you hear it a few times, you start to believe it.

This has nothing to do with anyone hating me or me hating anyone-- the person who told me this is someone who is a very good friend and I think the world of her, and she seems to like me too... but yeah, surprise surprise at the same time she also thinks that NETs are a huge waste of money and would probably vote to get rid of me if she could. And for some extremely strange reason I don't think she's completely alone... mostly because she has a mouth and a brain and can communicate with other people and share opinions... oh, and it's in the newspapers-- not just the ones you can read either.

Caring about or having an opinion about my future in Korea definitely doesn't mean I have any less right to be here than you. So next time before you decide that you need to add the most cliched and brainless love-it-or-leave-it redneck response in the history of humans everywhere to a discussion that you've put zero thought into, ask yourself 'does ANYONE actually need to hear this comment for the millionth time'? Or for god's sake, put some sort of humorous or interesting spin on it so at least it would be somewhat worth reading. Or actually don't, because you probably couldn't do it right anyway, DUDE.


[mod edit - insulting another user]

« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 09:12:53 am by daveyc18 »

Offline adamwatch

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #192 on: July 28, 2011, 08:33:30 am »
Did Gepik ever start? Did they ever start with  a thought out policy of what they wanted to do with their native teachers?  The level of English here is appalling for a country which has employed so many foreign teachers and thrown so much money at learning English.

Adam

Offline Burndog

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #193 on: July 28, 2011, 09:00:56 am »
I just read in the Korean article that the reason behind the cuts is to make room for the "free lunch program" every student, rich or poor, will not have to pay for lunch starting next year and that's a big budget.

The 'free lunch' story is last year's news in Gyeonggi-Do and has nothing to do with the GPC's decision to block the budget request by the GPOE.

Did Gepik ever start? Did they ever start with  a thought out policy of what they wanted to do with their native teachers?  The level of English here is appalling for a country which has employed so many foreign teachers and thrown so much money at learning English.

Adam

GEPIK isn't responsible for the whole of Korea...and a program that's only been around for eight years is hardly going to increase the level of English to a huge and noticeable extent!  I think that the English level of 20 year olds in Korea is much better now than it was ten years ago.  Increasing proficiency in a second language is NOT something that can be achieved overnight.

Offline woman-king

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #194 on: July 28, 2011, 10:09:56 am »
I just read in the Korean article that the reason behind the cuts is to make room for the "free lunch program" every student, rich or poor, will not have to pay for lunch starting next year and that's a big budget.

The 'free lunch' story is last year's news in Gyeonggi-Do and has nothing to do with the GPC's decision to block the budget request by the GPOE.

Did Gepik ever start? Did they ever start with  a thought out policy of what they wanted to do with their native teachers?  The level of English here is appalling for a country which has employed so many foreign teachers and thrown so much money at learning English.

Adam

GEPIK isn't responsible for the whole of Korea...and a program that's only been around for eight years is hardly going to increase the level of English to a huge and noticeable extent!  I think that the English level of 20 year olds in Korea is much better now than it was ten years ago.  Increasing proficiency in a second language is NOT something that can be achieved overnight.

Yeah, NETs need to stop name-blaming GEPIK in this and actually read the article, especially the quotes from the GPC representative, to understand what's actually going on here..  GEPIK has been fighting to keep this cut from going through.  Of course I'm sure they're largely motivated by wanting to keep their own jobs--but what's wrong with that?  It doesn't make them any greedier than any of us who are also, after all, fighting to keep jobs.  My own coordinator has been really prompt in answering questions and been up-front about things as far as I can tell.  I've thanked her for her hard work in a frustrating, uncertain situation.  B*tching about GEPIK doesn't really strengthen our position that we're valuable within the Korean education system.

Offline Jrong

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #195 on: July 28, 2011, 11:41:17 am »
I feel like it has a lot to do with "country personality type". Of course there are tons of exceptions but it sometimes is helpful to see whole cultures through the lens of "MBTI". Korea seems to be very much a Sensing culture (in general, of course) which would mean that when making decisions 'leadership' would start from the 'practical' (we need to learn English) and work step-by-step to reach the big picture instead of seeing the big picture first and implementing steps afterwards.

There's plenty of evidence from the history of Korea until today to see how it may possibly be skewed to the "Sensing" side (such as a long period where Buddhism was discouraged by leadership b/c monks shouldn't be meditating or thinking about deeper things in life and instead everyone should focus on the practical here and now) so that may explain why many things in Korea often seem "short-sighted" to those who are iNtuitive -- kind of like the walkway near our apt that they just started and finished building and has been washed away yesterday by the rains.

The opposite problem of having a predominately "iNtuitive culture" would be that 'leadership' would come up with awesome, revolutionary plans for raising their people's standard of living (and teaching English would probably be a part of that) but would fail to implement a successful step-by-step detailed approach and almost nothing would end up getting done.

It seems, at least to me, that whenever there is unbalance on either side then things don't work. Korea may need a heavy dose of iNtuitive people who can see patterns and somewhat predict the future just like other nations may need to move towards involving more Sensing people in their decision-making processes that can help them successfully implement the "big ideas".
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Offline lacyfan

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #196 on: July 29, 2011, 07:41:07 am »
Everyone says that the free lunch program is what is "breaking the budget" in GPOE. Ask your co-teacher and they will confirm this.

Offline Burndog

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #197 on: July 29, 2011, 08:13:40 am »
Everyone says that the free lunch program is what is "breaking the budget" in GPOE. Ask your co-teacher and they will confirm this.

I don't need to ask my co-teacher.  Just because a co-teacher can repeat an old fact, doesn't make it new.  The current problem has NOTHING to do with school lunches, and everything to do with the GPC deciding not to approve the section of the GPOE budget that funds us.  Did you read any of the articles about this from last week?  Yes...the free lunch issue was a relevant issue with the LAST round of cuts in March...but they have NOTHING to do with the current situation. 

My co-teacher is wonderful...but I don't think that she reads newspapers.

Offline lacyfan

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #198 on: July 29, 2011, 10:51:46 am »
Then what is the problem?

Offline Burndog

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Re: Re: GEPIK is Finished
« Reply #199 on: July 29, 2011, 12:40:22 pm »
Then what is the problem?

I think that if you look through the thread here there are a lot of links and explanations.

Quote
The current problem has NOTHING to do with school lunches, and everything to do with the GPC deciding not to approve the section of the GPOE budget that funds us.