Students laughing at black characters, help!

[DejaVu]

EDIT: Threads were merged- my post is about "Obama looking like a monkey" (though it would probably fit many of the posts on here that I've decided to skip over in order to save my reasonable mind from distress).
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A lot of people label statements as being "racist" when someone of that ethnicity might be offended by it.

In reality, he does look more like a monkey than most people.  The students were just stating what they saw.  At grade 5 they probably do not realize that the statement is so common among those who are racist.  The actual statement, by itself, is not racist and is actually somewhat true.

That being said, when they are actually being racist, I call them out on it in front of the whole class and ask them why they feel the way they do.  Depending on how they answer that question, I act accordingly.

[hien_t]

I think many of us who have taught for a few years believe that we are all here to teach both English and foreign culture too.  Some countries have a very diverse population so it's important to show that.  I know when I prepare PowerPoints with pictures of people with various skin color, hair color, hair style, eye colors, etc, I'd get funny remarks from time to time too.  Some students really like the stereotypical blond hair blue eyed American.

For the most part, we probably take racism and racist comments way more seriously than some here.  Since you are here to teach culture as well (assuming you want to), you might have to raise your voice a bit, maybe have the co-teacher translate, and say that its not okay.  A solid "No, that is NOT okay to say about people" followed by a long silence might give off the impression of a very serious manner.

At the same time, make sure the kids know that making fun of someone is not much different than saying a bad word or cursing.  Then, punish them for it.  Everyone should be treated with respect.  They can think all they want, but the second they say something out loud, that's when we got a problem.  We wouldn't want these kids to turn out like Alexander Wa**** right?

[ugodme2]

I have not taught this lesson yet, but thank you for the warning. I try to prepare them for it so I am not greeted with any unwanted reactions.

[Jozigirl]

This isn't really racism; it's making of fun of people who look different.  I'm not saying it's right or condoning their response but if you're going to put a label on it, then first clearly identify what you're trying to tackle.  It's important to remember that these are kids: simly telling them not to say these things isn't going to be anymore successful than shouting them down - they just learn not to say them in front of you.

Having grown up in SA, I can tell you firsthand that you won't be changing their views overnight.  It's difficult for people to change who they are - especially as adults.  All you can really do is expose them to people of all sorts of appearances and when negative comments are made, ask if those features that they've identified as different change the peerson's character/job performance/intelligence/etc. 

[H.W.]

Still a long way to go, though. I don't know about this particular book character, but I've heard plenty of the usual stories of kids crying when first meeting their new black English teacher.

Honestly I can't sit up on a high horse on this one.  I had a babysitter who was a black woman when I was four years old and I was afraid of her (I'm white).  I also had a black substitute teacher in kindergarten and I cried (although to be fair I cried every time we had a sub in kindergarten -- what a wimp!)  It's simply a case of not being used to people who look different than the people you see every day.  The first graders are sometimes scared of me, sometimes gape like codfish as I walk by. 

Part of the reason they may have been laughing is because the kid sounds like a total wuss in that video... Unlikely though.  You have to be patient and remember that accepting everybody and their differences is not an innate human ability, and needs to be trained into people (children) just like anything else.

[DMZ]

Students are most probably not laughing at black characters because they're funny or because their racists. They're laughing because that's what Koreans do when they're uncomfortable. They're not often exposed to black people and so they don't know how to react when they see one, and so they laugh.

It goes away with age and more exposure to black people (even if it's just from TV). My middle school kids don't laugh at black people and I bet your co teachers don't either. If Koreans were really racist then they would be laughing or reacting negatively as they get older too.

[hypnotoad777]

I guess I'm spoiled in that my school makes me make up my own lessons. I'd just make the next lesson about racism.  If this doesn't work, I think you need to pull the stern, icy silence bit (first with the coteachers, then the students). I know someone said that they're kids and it's not really racism blah blah. But that's honestly just a load of shit, and making excuses. The only way children become adults is by learning to recognize the social codes of a society. We are constantly asked the be cultural ambassadors for our country, so rather than making it into a discipline issue, make it into a teachable moment. i did a lesson on cultural differences a while ago, so students know what kinds of behaviors are acceptable in my home country and which are not. A good example would be "What might happen if you call this man a monkey?"  a) you and him will enjoy a laugh b) he won't do anything c) he might be irritated but won't say anything  d) he will attack you.   You can ask them for each  "always, usually, sometimes, seldom, hardly ever, never"    Answer truthfully and watch them squirm. (Note: this does require your coteacher to be on his shit, which I suspect you can coach him into being, if you work with boys at a middle school level.)

[conorsean]

Students are most probably not laughing at black characters because they're funny or because their racists. They're laughing because that's what Koreans do when they're uncomfortable. They're not often exposed to black people and so they don't know how to react when they see one, and so they laugh.

It goes away with age and more exposure to black people (even if it's just from TV). My middle school kids don't laugh at black people and I bet your co teachers don't either. If Koreans were really racist then they would be laughing or reacting negatively as they get older too.

I think that might be the most sensible comment anyone has made on this topic so far.

[Sara]

Please be sensitive to others viewpoints and stay on topic or the thread will be locked. This is your first warning.

[Korea87]

Students are most probably not laughing at black characters because they're funny or because their racists. They're laughing because that's what Koreans do when they're uncomfortable. They're not often exposed to black people and so they don't know how to react when they see one, and so they laugh.

It goes away with age and more exposure to black people (even if it's just from TV). My middle school kids don't laugh at black people and I bet your co teachers don't either. If Koreans were really racist then they would be laughing or reacting negatively as they get older too.

i work at a middle school and my students have no qualms laughing at black people and dark-skinned people. I also saw one of my co-ts doing the same.

[PBJ]

What do you do when that occurs?
I asked them why they were laughing.  Getting that information first is a must. You may be surprised by the answer.
I also explained to class, that in my culture, it was rude (or not nice,depending on the age) to laugh at someone else because of the way they looked.  It could just be a cultural difference.  But I feel that part of the job of an English teacher is to inform the students of appropriate behavior in other countries.  They seemed to be very grateful for the information, as I did not judge them for what they did, or make them wrong.  It's just data, being given to them to help them when they encounter real live foreigners or travel to another country.
That's my perspective, hope someone finds it hellpful...

[DejaVu]

Please be sensitive to others viewpoints and stay on topic or the thread will be locked. This is your first warning.

Who is the warning directed towards?

I assume me since you have deleted my post (the most open-minded one on the forum).  It was ridiculously on topic and scientific, showcasing no bias or prejudice.

I was arguing that making generalizations does not equate to racism.  This is relevant- it is pointing out that many of the teachers here are wasting precious class time on "correcting" students in areas that do not need to be corrected.

Please be sensitive to my viewpoints and not delete my posts without giving me a real reason. And now I've lost my elegant post which was going to be a part of my novella.  Cheers...

[NZ4Life]

Please be sensitive to others viewpoints and stay on topic or the thread will be locked. This is your first warning.

errr... why was my post deleted? and i thought i was being sensitive. it was pretty objective and [i thought] was not flame bait (as evidenced by the lack of negative reactions for the duration of its post)

anyway, in regard to the OP i can understand why [some] ppl would get mad at an adult for making such a comment with such a charged racial attachment to it but i'm sure that's the way that kids see it is completely pure and by innocent comparison. my point was that racial perceptions are NOT the same here and enforcing something that wasn't there to begin with only creates a bigger problem by inadvertantly making it prevalent. my advice is not to take it too seriously if they're younger....

[ne0ica]

Look, lets not impose our Western racial baggage on Koreans kids. They are laughing at black kids because they have not been exposed to them. They come from a homogenous society. Its silly but it does not mean they are racist or they shall grow up to be racists.

[Sara]

Your posts were deleted because they were not on topic. They were both discussing how much Obama (or black people in general) looked like monkeys. The OPs (there are two because the thread was merged) are wondering what to do about their children laughing when they use pictures of black people. Neither of your responses offered a solution, and steered the thread in the wrong direction.

If you have further questions, please send me a PM so you don't further derail the thread. Any other off-topic posts will be considered trolling and you will be issued a warning in accordance with Waygook's TOS.

[Koradian]

I suggest you turn a blind eye. This happenes everyday at my high school. The rude comments and gestures. It is what it is. I don't believe it's our role to educate them on this issue - especially with the language barrier. The amount of stress it'll bring on yourself trying to deal with it and change the system just isn't worthe the energy.

[DMZ]

Students are most probably not laughing at black characters because they're funny or because their racists. They're laughing because that's what Koreans do when they're uncomfortable. They're not often exposed to black people and so they don't know how to react when they see one, and so they laugh.

It goes away with age and more exposure to black people (even if it's just from TV). My middle school kids don't laugh at black people and I bet your co teachers don't either. If Koreans were really racist then they would be laughing or reacting negatively as they get older too.

i work at a middle school and my students have no qualms laughing at black people and dark-skinned people. I also saw one of my co-ts doing the same.

I guess it's just different for everyone. My kids are just run of the mill middle school students from middle income families in an average area. I'm not black and they've never had a black teacher to change their apparently "racist" mentalities. I'm just lucky I guess.

[stinabitten]

I wonder if just incorporating more black people and other-race people into the situations would help. It might take some teeth grinding, but I think it would be the least aggressive?

This just reminds me that all my students think that non-asian, non- size 0-4 celebrities are all fat and ugly. I think they just need more exposure :/

[actualstarfish]

I've been having this same problem and I think a lot of the issues here stem from us English teachers being unsure of our exact role in Korea. I'm still not entirely sure what my role is. I think that culture should be stressed a whole lot more in our lessons because, for example, a lot of my kids have no idea why they are learning English or why we don't have politeness levels in our language. But I also think Korea on the whole doesn't quite know the exact reason they are learning English. I get so many different responses from Koreans when I ask that question that I've decided that there isn't any specific reason but I do think that our students aren't getting a quality education if they aren't learning any culture along with the language. This is the main problem I have with Korean conversation teachers supposedly taking over our jobs. I've met far too many of them who haven't even traveled to a Western country before and occasionally say some completely ignorant stuff.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that it isn't wrong to point out that you think it isn't okay to say bad things about someone who looks different. However, in my opinion you should ALWAYS stress the part that "In my culture..." because lets be honest, its acceptable on a certain level to do this in Korean society. People always say we aren't here to change things, and that's fine. Make them aware of how the Western world approaches this subject and let them decide what they want to be. Tell that that you will get punched in the face or looked at like a complete idiot at best if they were to say a dark-skinned person looks like a monkey in your country (that is how people would react where I come from at least).

Again, I do think that if Korea is learning English in an attempt to be more international, if even for economic reasons only, they need to be learning a lot more culture than they are now, and learning more progressive approaches towards diversity is a big part of that.

[rogue85]

 I get that this country is fairly ignorant with regards to other races, but I don't think that the kids are laughing to be malicious. My kids laugh at Peter, but they also laugh at the other characters. When I ask why they are laughing they always say it's because of the way the characters act (they say it's fake acting). Kids pick up on a lot of different things and I think that sometimes we may a bit sensitive about the things they laugh or giggle at. I have seen many cases in my country where people make fun at or laugh at Asian people - that doesn't necessarily mean they are racist.