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Author Topic: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?  (Read 1939 times)

Online The Arm

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2016, 03:18:41 PM »
Wow. 

And that's coming from Pagoda  :huh:
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Online glb0b

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2016, 03:36:03 PM »
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Offline jonhil

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2016, 05:02:28 PM »
 'There are 15 new interns coming into the office - we finally have our work cut out'.

What does that even mean?!  :laugh:

Edit. Oh I get it now - '...finally, our workload will be reduced'.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 05:04:08 PM by jonhil »
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Offline azalea14

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2016, 06:47:46 PM »
We provide a certain, vital authenticity of the language. Even though I am American and believe they understand the American english variety the best (because of exposure), they still have a hard time understanding my everyday, not-perfect-CD-diction English. I'm not white and have taught them a bit about my background and regional culture. I believe my mere presence helps them become more open to otherness. My students don't have a geography class, so I've tried to include it in my lessons because their geography skills are awful. >.< I bring new, interesting activities to the classroom. I teach middle school and high school and I'm surprised that my students haven't done most of the activities I use with them. Some I make up myself, but a lot of them are from this site. Makes me wonder what other GETs have been doing. Also, we know slang! I have one student who loves American hip-hop and uses words like "sick" and "dope" in class, and the KET has asked me what he meant by that.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 07:00:27 PM by azalea14 »
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Offline eggieguffer

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2016, 01:47:53 PM »
Quote
Also, we know slang! I have one student who loves American hip-hop and uses words like "sick" and "dope" in class, and the KET has asked me what he meant by that.

Maybe you should be explaining to him that those terms will only be understood by a small minority of people in one country for a limited period of time and as such are not really worth spening much time on. Considering if he has to use English in the future it'll probably be with someone like a Thai waiter or a Chinese businessman. Teaching slang might look cool in the movies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj8e770Qq10

but has no place in the TEFL classroom
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Offline Mr G

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2016, 01:34:22 PM »
In Korea right now, where test-prep is king and not authentic communication - Korean teachers with a good level of English obviously make more sense.

If the goal is truly fluency and not just to use English to pass a test, then its irrelevant if it's a Korean or a foreigner. Its the one who has the best training and language ability.

I'd rank them like this, but it depends on the student age,level and context so the top 2 are just about equal:

1. Korean teachers with proper TEFL training, international experience and a near native level of English.
=. Native speakers with proper TEFL training and a high level of Korean ability (intermediate and above)
 
3. Native speakers with proper TEFL training and no~poor Korean ability.

4. Korean teachers with a decent level of English (broad definition but I'm pointing at most of the Korean English teachers you meet in the public school system)

5. Native speakers with a major in something irrelevant, no desire to teach after visiting Korea and  with no proper TEFL training.

Since a GOOD, QUALIFIED native teacher can offer an authentic and genuine means of learning English and can potentially change the way that English is taught in this country + the fact that the current educational system is far far far away from ideal + the fact that most of the teachers we work with are at no. 4 on the above ranking = If you are a good, qualified native English teacher, you cannot currently be replaced by a Korean teacher.
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Offline eggieguffer

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2016, 08:43:02 PM »
Personally I'd reverse number three and 1/2. Not because I don't think knowing the L1 isn't useful in a TEFL situation or that you should teach totally in L2 but in the Korean context I reckon the first two would almost certainly use more Korean than was good for the students and this would have a worse effect on the kids' learning than a few isolated situations when number three couldn't communicate something. Good training in TEFL would ensure that a teacher should be able to teach all but beginner levels in L2 effectively.
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Offline Mr G

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2016, 12:28:41 AM »
1. and 2. can choose not to speak Korean.

3. Cannot choose to speak Korean.

That pretty much explains itself. But to add more anyway:

Most teachers here are not in a situation that enables proper ESL methods to be used effectively anyway (i.e. small classes of motivated students with regular classes). When you have 50 mins with a class, once a week, all different levels, half who couldn't be bothered to learn - Korean is definitely an asset. No need to waste valuable time trying to communicate "extra" stuff when you can get everyone on the same page instantly with some Korean and THEN do English only activities to practice the main focus of the lesson. 
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Offline eggieguffer

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2016, 08:00:18 AM »
Quote
1. and 2. can choose not to speak Korean.

3. Cannot choose to speak Korean

Yeah, I do get that, my point was in reality in my experience they always choose to use it more often than they need to. E.g. Once students know the teacher can speak L1 they will constantly reply to questions or ask questions in L1 and the teacher has to constantly resist the temptation to reply in L1. If they're tired or feeling lazy they won't make the effort.

Quote
No need to waste valuable time trying to communicate "extra" stuff when you can get everyone on the same page instantly with some Korean and THEN do English only activities to practice the main focus of the lesson.

Not a very good example if you don't mind me saying so. Getting people onto the right page is basic stuff anyone can do with L2/gesture and writing a number on the board if necessary.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 08:03:12 AM by eggieguffer »
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Offline Mr G

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2016, 01:22:55 PM »
Quote from: eggieguffer on October 17, 2016, 08:00:18 AM
Not a very good example if you don't mind me saying so. Getting people onto the right page is basic stuff anyone can do with L2/gesture and writing a number on the board if necessary.

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/on+the+same+page
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Offline eggieguffer

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2016, 01:36:33 PM »
Quote from: Mr G on October 17, 2016, 01:22:55 PM
Quote from: eggieguffer on October 17, 2016, 08:00:18 AM
Not a very good example if you don't mind me saying so. Getting people onto the right page is basic stuff anyone can do with L2/gesture and writing a number on the board if necessary.

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/on+the+same+page

The same applies IMO. Classroom management/instructions should be carried out with gestures/L2 from day one. 
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Offline #basedcowboyshirt

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2016, 04:56:41 PM »
Quote from: Mr G on October 17, 2016, 12:28:41 AM
1. and 2. can choose not to speak Korean.

3. Cannot choose to speak Korean.

That pretty much explains itself. But to add more anyway:

Most teachers here are not in a situation that enables proper ESL methods to be used effectively anyway (i.e. small classes of motivated students with regular classes). When you have 50 mins with a class, once a week, all different levels, half who couldn't be bothered to learn - Korean is definitely an asset. No need to waste valuable time trying to communicate "extra" stuff when you can get everyone on the same page instantly with some Korean and THEN do English only activities to practice the main focus of the lesson.

100% correct.

TEE is absolutely counterproductive unless you're teaching high level students, or students with a relatively strong motivation to learn and be attentive. When you see a group of students once a week for 40 minutes, you can't suddenly shift to an English language immersion style of education. You can't go from 0 to 100 instantly.
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Offline azalea14

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2016, 05:58:36 PM »
Quote from: eggieguffer on October 15, 2016, 01:47:53 PM

Maybe you should be explaining to him that those terms will only be understood by a small minority of people in one country for a limited period of time and as such are not really worth spening much time on. Considering if he has to use English in the future it'll probably be with someone like a Thai waiter or a Chinese businessman. Teaching slang might look cool in the movies but has no place in the TEFL classroom.

This student is well aware that these words are particular to American hip-hop. He knows I'm the only person who understands them, so I let him use these words because I know that's what motivates him to participate in class (showing off his slang skills). If he were to use English in the future, it would probably be with people of similar interests, in which case these words would be relevant. As a middle school teacher, I know it's hard to get students interested and to actively participate so I wouldn't discourage the use of slang, unless they are bad words.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with teaching things that would only be understood by a minority like expressions, slang, texting language, or gestures. It is part of daily conversation and can be useful in connecting to certain group of people, culture, hobby, etc. I don't teach it very often, but when I do I show them common examples. For example, I taught my students that we say 'bless you' when someone sneezes and they were both confused and intrigued by this strange custom. Learning about cultural differences can be fun.
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Offline eggieguffer

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2016, 06:08:50 PM »
Quote
TEE is absolutely counterproductive unless you're teaching high level students, or students with a relatively strong motivation to learn and be attentive. When you see a group of students once a week for 40 minutes, you can't suddenly shift to an English language immersion style of education. You can't go from 0 to 100 instantly.

I've watched plenty of lessons conducted entirely in English by Korean teachers so it can be done. The problem is that they aren't doing it on a regular basis so when you take over the class once a week the kids are used to getting spoonfed everything in L1. If there was a general policy TEE could be achieved quite easily. As it is in other Asian countries like Singapore and Hong Kong
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 06:18:21 PM by eggieguffer »
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Offline eggieguffer

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2016, 06:14:43 PM »
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For example, I taught my students that we say 'bless you' when someone sneezes and they were both confused and intrigued by this strange custom. Learning about cultural differences can be fun.

'Bless you' has been around for 100s of years and I wouldn't categorise it as slang. There's a big difference between informal spoken expressions and slang.

Quote
If he were to use English in the future, it would probably be with people of similar interests,

How do you work that out? Like I said before, if he uses it at all it'll probably be in a job or vacation situation.

I wouldn't discourage students taking an interest in slang and I'd tell them what it meant if they asked but I'd never teach it in a class. Course books never touch it,  with good reason as it's only understood by a small minority and goes out of date quicker than units on technology
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 06:16:45 PM by eggieguffer »
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Online The Arm

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2016, 06:17:54 PM »
Quote from: Mr G on October 17, 2016, 12:28:41 AM
1. and 2. can choose not to speak Korean.

3. Cannot choose to speak Korean.

That pretty much explains itself. But to add more anyway:

Most teachers here are not in a situation that enables proper ESL methods to be used effectively anyway (i.e. small classes of motivated students with regular classes). When you have 50 mins with a class, once a week, all different levels, half who couldn't be bothered to learn - Korean is definitely an asset. No need to waste valuable time trying to communicate "extra" stuff when you can get everyone on the same page instantly with some Korean and THEN do English only activities to practice the main focus of the lesson.

This is the method I base all my lessons around.  I think it's the best way to handle the coteaching situation.

Once the Korean teacher ensures all the students are on the same page then it's up to me to create different activities to practice the language point.
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Offline oglop

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Re: What can a native speaker offer that a Korean teacher can't?
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2016, 09:49:07 PM »
i've never had a co-teacher and have only ever taught using 100% L2. this has ranged from absolute beginners for both adults (of varying nationalities and ages) and kids.

it's really no problem if you plan well, demonstrate, use images, ICQs, etc, etc

as eggieguffer said, it becomes easier and more effective if you do it regularly, but it can (easily) be done- without issues. not sure why '#basedcowboyshirt' thinks it's counter-productive.
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