May 21, 2017, 06:25:10 PM


Author Topic: Prisoner's dilemma  (Read 1339 times)

Offline jimwall5

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 105
  • Gender: Male
Prisoner's dilemma
« on: April 05, 2017, 12:12:49 PM »
I was thinking about doing a class for my club activity about the prisoner's dilemma.

https://www.quora.com/Game-Theory-What-is-the-prisoners-dilemma-in-laymans-terms

I was wondering if anyone has tried it by splitting a class in teams and doing multiple rounds? I wanted to turn it into a game, but I'm trying to work out if there is any incentive for students to do anything but betray the other team?
Also I'm trying to work out how best to explain to them without it becoming too confusing.

Any help would be appreciated

Offline jimwall5

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 105
  • Gender: Male
Re: Prisoner's dilemma
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2017, 01:28:56 PM »
Okay, in case anyone is interested, here is what I have so far.
I've got a powerpoint to try and explain it to the students. It's a little complicated, so i think it's a case of doing one or two rounds to help the students understand the concept.
Basically they'll choose someone from their team each round to either Confess or Deny a crime. Depending on the other team's choice they'll either lose or gain points. The aim is to get the lowest amount of points that you can, but you must get less than 0 or neither time wins.
I'll post up how it went.

Offline The Arm

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 686
Re: Prisoner's dilemma
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2017, 01:36:27 PM »
I'm definitely intrigued about this idea; would love to hear how it goes.

I'd never heard of the prisoner's dilema before and it actually took me a few reads to fully get my head around it.  Kudos to your students if they understand it (and you for explaining it to them!)

Offline jimwall5

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 105
  • Gender: Male
Re: Prisoner's dilemma
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2017, 01:38:45 PM »
My co teacher couldn't understand it at first...I really think it's okay if they don't understand it at first and then they can start to as we go on...but we'll see

Offline kobayashi

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 557
  • Gender: Male
Re: Prisoner's dilemma
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2017, 02:49:37 PM »
the scene with the two boats in The Dark Knight is basically the prisoners dilemma. Could start off the class by showing them that with korean subtitles, before leading in to the explanation.


Online maximmm

  • Hero of Waygookistan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1213
Re: Prisoner's dilemma
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2017, 06:00:41 PM »
This is a rather odd one - usually, cops try to get a criminal to rat out and later testify against other criminals for a shorter or a suspended sentence.  (the dilemma here is, will your 'friend' in another room, point a finger at you or will he/she keep quiet.  If he/she keeps quiet and you keep quiet, you both go free, but if he/she points a finger at you and testifies, you go to a prison for a long time - if you both point a finger at each other, you go to prison for shorter periods of time - the question is, did your friend point a finger at you?  or are the cops lying?) 

Yep, I've seen way too many cop shows ;)

Otherwise, the whole 'if you confess, you'll get a shorter sentence' is a police scam.

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/does-confessing-a-crime-reduce-the-amount-of-sente-308490.html

I know that you didn't come up with this game, but I feel like someone should have come up with a game where you have guilty, innocents and cops mixed in one - and where the scenario I've just described plays out. 

Then again - am I not describing mafia game?
Life is full of questions

Death is full of answers

May you die well and learn.

My PPT stuff - http://www.waygook.org/index.php/topic,102847.0.html

Offline jimwall5

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 105
  • Gender: Male
Re: Prisoner's dilemma
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2017, 06:16:40 PM »
I get what you're saying, but the point of this game isn't necessarily to be realistic, it is more a chance to get the students to discuss and think strategically.
I think the concept of the game is pretty interesting and allows students to think strategically so I don't want to change it an awful lot, I'm just trying to find ways to get them to use more English.

Offline jimwall5

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 105
  • Gender: Male
Re: Prisoner's dilemma
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2017, 02:47:37 PM »
Also your post isn't the same situation. That is if someone acts alone and is caught. The game is about two people being involved and selling the other person out. If you admit that both of you did it you can get a reduced sentence because you've also given them information to help arrest the other person.

Offline Lukron

  • Explorer
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Gender: Male
Re: Prisoner's dilemma
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2017, 08:05:36 PM »
Golden Balls was  a TV show that used this in the end, rather than prison time it was prize money. You can choose to split or steal, with similar results.

Offline oglop

  • Expert Waygook
  • ****
  • Posts: 721
  • Gender: Male
Re: Prisoner's dilemma
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2017, 12:52:43 AM »
Golden Balls was  a TV show that used this in the end, rather than prison time it was prize money. You can choose to split or steal, with similar results.
Was that the one with jasper carrott? I remember that

Offline jimwall5

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 105
  • Gender: Male
Re: Prisoner's dilemma
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2017, 10:27:54 AM »
I tried it but the kids didn't seem to like it that much. They didn't see the point after one or two goes and just decided that it didn't matter that no one would win. There may be a way to get it to work, but it may be better for high school students.

Offline Lukron

  • Explorer
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Gender: Male
Re: Prisoner's dilemma
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2017, 03:06:53 PM »
Maybe you need a reward then? Prize for the person or team with the most 'money' at the end of the session.

Offline jimwall5

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 105
  • Gender: Male
Re: Prisoner's dilemma
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2017, 02:12:52 PM »
I did offer a reward. I said the team with the least number at the end wins candy, but at least one team should be in negative... Maybe next time I should take out the second part...

Offline Ijetherton

  • Waygookin
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Gender: Male
Re: Prisoner's dilemma
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2017, 06:31:52 AM »
I've thought about doing the prisoner's dilemma too recently. I think that if you want to incentivize them, you need to use various levels of prizes. For example, first place gets 1 small bag of candy, 2nd place gets 5 pieces of candy, 3rd place gets 2 for the group. Then, they will be tempted both to cheat to get the bag or to not cheat and help everyone in both teams get at least one piece of candy.

Offline tommyb.goode

  • Veteran
  • **
  • Posts: 202
Re: Prisoner's dilemma
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2017, 11:03:06 AM »
I've thought about doing the prisoner's dilemma too recently. I think that if you want to incentivize them, you need to use various levels of prizes. For example, first place gets 1 small bag of candy, 2nd place gets 5 pieces of candy, 3rd place gets 2 for the group. Then, they will be tempted both to cheat to get the bag or to not cheat and help everyone in both teams get at least one piece of candy.

The way I play it is:

Both teams steal: no one gets any candy
Both teams share: both teams get one
One team steals: that team gets two.

I get them to write it on a little whiteboard and then say three two one, share or steal? They almost always both steal haha, but they still love it.
http://a-chronic-expat.tumblr.com/ for writing and photography of a chronic expat.

 

Recent Lesson Plans

Zelda Chest Game by maximmm
[Today at 09:41:30 AM]


conservative news (science PPT) by bobranger
[Yesterday at 02:14:10 AM]


Writing the ABCs by m.corless
[Yesterday at 01:07:59 AM]

Buy/Sell/Trade

Employment