Asians and Blacks both face racism in the US. But Asians are generally not at risk of physical harm based on their race. There's racism that hurts your pride, racism that hurts your income, racism that hurts your well-being, and racism that percieves you as a threat. The first 2 can have long-term results that are important, but the last 2 can have immediate and devastating results, and I don't really see that last 1 having much prominence against Asians in the US.

Why would one group be perceived as a threat while the other one isn't? Perhaps it's because one group commits a lot more violent crime than the other. Oops, that isn't very politically correct. I have to learn to stop pointing out the elephant in the room.

Quote from: jddavis7 on May 16, 2017, 12:11:59 PM

In this thread: Caucasian males argue about racism. 

Yes? Does one have to live another's experience to talk about it?

I hope you've never criticised a restaurant's meal or a film you saw.

Unless you're a restaurateur/filmmaker, of course.

I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying, because you can only properly critique something that you have had experience with. You can't base your critique off of the experience of someone else. If you've never seen a specific movie how can you critique it? If you've never experienced that restaurant or their food, how can you give a valid review?
If you've never experienced it yourself, your review/critique of it will not be valid and no one will take you seriously. So, I'm not exactly sure if your comment made much sense. Correct me if I interpreted your response wrongly.

Quote from: CO2 on May 16, 2017, 12:43:49 PM

Quote from: jddavis7 on May 16, 2017, 12:11:59 PM

In this thread: Caucasian males argue about racism. 

Yes? Does one have to live another's experience to talk about it?

I hope you've never criticised a restaurant's meal or a film you saw.

Unless you're a restaurateur/filmmaker, of course.

I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying, because you can only properly critique something that you have had experience with. You can't base your critique off of the experience of someone else. If you've never seen a specific movie how can you critique it? If you've never experienced that restaurant or their food, how can you give a valid review?
If you've never experienced it yourself, your review/critique of it will not be valid and no one will take you seriously. So, I'm not exactly sure if your comment made much sense. Correct me if I interpreted your response wrongly.

Because you don't need to have DIRECT experience with something to critique it.

"McGuinty/Wynne has invested too much in the renewable sector."

Do you have a windmill? Are you in the provincial cabinet?

"Police brutality is a travesty!"

Have you ever been beat up by the cops? Statistically, I'd say you prob haven't.

This doesn't mean that you don't get a say. So when I see, "Haha, white guys talking about racism" it pisses me off. If someone had said, "Black guys need to straighten themselves out and fly right." and then JJDavis had called them out on it, fair play, that's a discussion.

"Haha, White guys chipping in."

Imagine I said, "Haha, Koreans thinking they can talk about real hamburgers."

I'm not criticising a Korean restaurant's burgers, I'm painting an entire people with an inability to understand/create something that isn't traditionally from their culture.

I didn't point fingers and I didn't raise questions.

I painted with a broad brush.

I agree that you don't have to have person experience, but I think it helps a lot.

My concept of racism before and after coming to Korea went from mostly conceptual to very real-world.

I was never of the mind that Asian people face more racism than black people in any area where neither form the majority. Then again, I never lived anywhere as homogeneous as I do now.

Quote from: wynislyfe22 on May 16, 2017, 01:46:46 PM

Quote

Africans enslaved other Africans for centuries and sold them to Arabs and later to white visitors. There are plenty examples of native Americans slaughtering, enslaving, and taking land from other tribes. Some wanted to wipe out whites and even tried to as happened in Virginia in the early 17th Century. Ultimately, whites were more successful (guns, germs, and steel) but I don't think they had worse morals than anyone else.

I was waiting for a response like this. I find genuinely hilarious when in response to any conversation about African enslavement, people are quick to point out that Africans enslaved other Africans and sold them to other tribes and such. For years i have tried to understand why is that they immediately go to this without thinking about what they are truly saying. Essentially they are saying "Well they did it to themselves so why is it so bad if I do it too?"

In those years, Africans lived solely in Africa, Africa was mainly tribes, tribes fought with each other (because that's what humans do, they fight).  Prisoners of war were taken as slaves yes that is true, it is also true that if you were indebted to someone you could become a slave to repay your debt.If they were only surrounded by versions of themselves who else were they going to enslave? White people? they didn't exist in Africa then. Africans weren't the only ones to do this. Every civilization in history has enslaved and killed their own people. Africans, Egyptians, Native Indians, Romans,and the list goes on and on even in the bible Joseph was sold into slavery by his brothers. because again when your surrounded by your own kind, its obvious your going to hurt your own kind.  Slavery isn't a foreign concept. The act of slavery itself didn't start when white people decided to enslave black people, it wasn't new. It had been around since biblical days.

What was new was when they decided to make these people, who weren't their own kind, permanent slaves. When they decided to take people from their land and families for profit. People who weren't captured in war nor people repaying debts but taken simply because they needed a workforce. White people have been invading the lands of others and taking stuff that didn't belong to them for centuries. You talk about the Natives wanting to wipe out whites.. why did they want to do that? They came to their home, took their land, their food and killed their people, of course they wanted to be rid of them. So for you to say they didn't have worse morals and worse, really believe that they don't is honestly laughable. How can you have this vast knowledge of History, the history of the world and still think the things that many people , especially white people (notice i said many not all) think? A history book, factual documentary would show you all this. But then that's the problem , people only love to talk and not actually read and educate themselves on fact but they go along and sprout fiction and alternative truths.

 Yes, when white people invaded America, slaughtered Native Americans, enslaved Africans, discriminate against Muslims and any other minority that's not them, they DEFINITELY had worse morals than everyone else.

According to Thomas Sowell (who is black), whites developed better morals than everyone else.

"To me the most staggering thing about the long history of slavery -- which encompassed the entire world and every race in it -- is that nowhere before the 18th century was there any serious question raised about whether slavery was right or wrong. In the late 18th century, that question arose in Western civilization, but nowhere else.

"It seems so obvious today that, as Lincoln said, if slavery is not wrong, then nothing is wrong. But no country anywhere believed that three centuries ago."
https://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2005/02/08/ending-slavery-n958377

White people were the first to recognize that slavery was wrong and put an end to it. Until then it was pretty much the worldwide norm.

You don't seem to understand much about native American history. Different tribes slaughtered each other, enslaved each other, and took land from each other. There is a mass grave in South Dakota where one group of Indians almost entirely wiped out another group. No bones of young women have been found there, however. They likely were taken as sex slaves.

The most interesting thing about your response is that you want to demonize white people. You really want to believe that they are a uniquely evil race. Why?

First: My response to you is based on your comment above stating that when white people enslaved Africans, they didn't have worse morals than everyone else. The way you worded your comment gives the meaning that because Africans enslaved other Africans, Native Americans slaughtered whole tribes of their own race, that what white people came along and did was no worse because it was already happening among those groups. My response is based on your comment talking about the past when all that was occurring, I never denied that white people didn't get a moral compass, obviously they did or black people would still be in chains today, however that was AFTER the fact. AFTER they had years of profit, AFTER their bad morals made them do it in the first place. My response to you was rebutting your argument that they did not have bad moral views.

Second: OF COURSE they had to be the ones to develop good morals enough to end slavery, they were the ones enslaving people! Who was supposed to? The blacks? How? Their morality is of no consequence, they didn't ask to be put in chains. So of course i agree with you and Thomas Sowell (who you so wonderfully pointed out is black, but has no bearing on my argument) that whites developed their morals better than everyone else's. Because they were the ones doing wrong.

Third: I don't need to understand much about Native American History to include them in my previous response to make my point. In case you forgot, the point was that every race has done and has committed acts of violence against their own. I did say that, slavery and brutality did not start with white people, every race or group of people did it to themselves. Blacks, Native Americans etc. I did make the point that when you're surrounded by various versions of yourself, when you lived in a society where all there is, is Black/White/American Indian/Asian, any violence committed will obviously be against your own, not another race. Violence is human nature to us, we do bad stuff, that didn't start with white people, The Americans Indians committed heinous things against other tribes, okay, yes they did but so did other races.

Four: I find it even more interesting that from my response to highlight the atrocities committed by white people in order to refute your point, you seem to want to turn this into a personal attack on white people rather than seeing it for what it is: A factual argument highlighting the deeds done by a certain race because that is what we are discussing. If we were talking about heinous acts committed by black people that what I would discuss. But we're not, we're talking about racism and slavery and the things that white people have done. So, of course, in my refutation of your comment I had to mention the facts. And that is what I did, so why are you trying to turn it into me trying to demonize white people? I did not say one thing in my response to that was untrue, exaggerated or biased. All I did was state the facts proven in history. I understand the truth hurts, but i assure you, I was not attempting to demonize anyone I just attempted to set the facts straight.

Quote from: wynislyfe22 on May 16, 2017, 02:06:08 PM

Quote from: CO2 on May 16, 2017, 12:43:49 PM

Quote from: jddavis7 on May 16, 2017, 12:11:59 PM

In this thread: Caucasian males argue about racism. 

Yes? Does one have to live another's experience to talk about it?

I hope you've never criticised a restaurant's meal or a film you saw.

Unless you're a restaurateur/filmmaker, of course.

I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying, because you can only properly critique something that you have had experience with. You can't base your critique off of the experience of someone else. If you've never seen a specific movie how can you critique it? If you've never experienced that restaurant or their food, how can you give a valid review?
If you've never experienced it yourself, your review/critique of it will not be valid and no one will take you seriously. So, I'm not exactly sure if your comment made much sense. Correct me if I interpreted your response wrongly.

Because you don't need to have DIRECT experience with something to critique it.

"McGuinty/Wynne has invested too much in the renewable sector."

Do you have a windmill? Are you in the provincial cabinet?

"Police brutality is a travesty!"

Have you ever been beat up by the cops? Statistically, I'd say you prob haven't.

This doesn't mean that you don't get a say. So when I see, "Haha, white guys talking about racism" it pisses me off. If someone had said, "Black guys need to straighten themselves out and fly right." and then JJDavis had called them out on it, fair play, that's a discussion.

"Haha, White guys chipping in."

Imagine I said, "Haha, Koreans thinking they can talk about real hamburgers."

I'm not criticising a Korean restaurant's burgers, I'm painting an entire people with an inability to understand/create something that isn't traditionally from their culture.

I didn't point fingers and I didn't raise questions.

I painted with a broad brush.

OK, noted. I did say if I interpreted your response wrongly to correct me. You explained your point and I agree. It's wrong to dismiss other opinions because they don't have direct experience. You don't have to have a direct experience to comment if something generally wrong.

Quote

I was more commenting on the fact that it didn't seem like people of other ethnicities were weighing in, which is what I was looking for when I opened the thread. I like to hear all sides of the story, but I was only seeing the perspective from a small demographic, is all. 

Next time say something like 'it'd be nice to hear the view points of other ethnicities' or words to that effect. Otherwise you'll come across as one of those morons who think you have to experience something to have a valid opinion on it. In any case as JNM pointed out most Caucasians living in Asia have directly experienced racism.

I don't believe I said it in a way to come off as a moron :) but I'm sorry if it came off that way. I'm still interested if there are any Asian Ameicans who can weigh in on the thread topic, as I haven't had many interactions with any to debate the topic.

I was more commenting on the fact that it didn't seem like people of other ethnicities were weighing in, which is what I was looking for when I opened the thread. I like to hear all sides of the story, but I was only seeing the perspective from a small demographic, is all. 

Well, I would hazard a guess and say the majority of us would be white. This is just a cross-section of, mainly, teachers here.

White's what you gon get, hahahaha

And sorry if I came across as terse, I've just heard this sargument so many times, it's fuckin irritating as hell, you seem much less annoying with the comment I'm replying to. 

Quote from: CO2 on May 16, 2017, 03:17:38 PM

Quote from: wynislyfe22 on May 16, 2017, 03:01:37 PM

OK, noted. I did say if I interpreted your response wrongly to correct me. You explained your point and I agree. It's wrong to dismiss other opinions because they don't have direct experience. You don't have to have a direct experience to comment if something generally wrong.

Yeah, the ranting aspect of it was directed at JJDavis, haha.

A rant just for me?? 

Lol but yeah, I wasn't saying white guys can't weigh in??? This thread is literally white males talking about race. Weigh in all you want.

To be fair, we are the ones with the most objective viewpoint on the question "who suffers more racism in the US - Asian or African".

people equating their experience being white and teaching English in Korea with the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow.

Who's done that?