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Author Topic: State of the education system here and abroad  (Read 775 times)

Offline MaximusPrime

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State of the education system here and abroad
« on: October 11, 2017, 05:06:22 PM »
   *** Start note *** DO NOT BRING POLITICAL IDEALS INTO THIS. I WANT IT PURELY TO BE ABOUT EDUCATION AND WHAT IS BEST FOR CHILDREN ***   

 This is something that I have been thinking about a lot over the break and also for a few months. To me it seems that children's behavior has declined in school and overall due to teachers not allowed to discipline children. This comes from first hand and  family members who are teachers in Canada ( can't speak for other places).

    I teach at two schools and the student behavior is night and day. One school the students get in trouble if they misbehave therefore they are not as bad and will listen after a warning. My other school the teachers are told not to scold the children and the grade 5 and 6 students don't listen to teachers and cause many problems ( I will admit that it is not all the students but in general). Students here spend most of their time in school and not as much time at home with parents so they learn a lot of social conditioning at school. 

Do you think that the decrease in power of teachers and inability to reprimand students for bad behavior is creating some of the social problems that we find nowdays? Students feel they should always win also. One school I can not play games with winners because they are such bad losers. Should we, as teachers, not be teaching them these skills or just baby them?

   My sister works in kindergarten in Canada (*disclamer* I only know about Ottawa and Toronto but I assume it is similar all around to different degrees) . She has told me that when kids are destroying the property of the school the teachers just have to follow them around and let them do it. While they lock all the other students in class. They can't touch the kid and the parents are not on the hook for any of the damages. They also can not play any games with losers because the kids feelings will be hurt. A kid pushed a podium off a stage at her and she got reprimanded for being hit by it ( luckily there is a union).

I know that when I was in school there are always bad apples and students who mess around. I am just thinking that it is becoming a problem that children are not learning that there will and should be consequences for their actions. Also, they are not taught be a team player and be graceful loser in games.   

Do you agree? Disagree? Are there other factors that I am just not thinking about that would cause this.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 05:26:50 PM by MaximusPrime »
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Offline gogators!

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Re: State of the education system here and abroad
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2017, 06:57:47 PM »
Of course its a problem. Children (as well as most adults) need to have limits.
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Offline gtrain83

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Re: State of the education system here and abroad
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2017, 07:54:15 AM »
The system here in America-Florida-my county is terrible. Kids have almost no consequences and their parents even less. They get "expelled" for 45 days now. Not a school year but 45 days. So many kids with legal documents like IEP, 504, etc that make it so they can not fail. I have to re-mediate them until they get a 70% or above. They did no work at all leading up to the test and then didn't study? What can I do better to ensure their success if they are doing nothing?

The lack of accountability on the students is ASTOUNDING. I never hear what could they have done better, only what could I have done to better help them. I guess my lessons, labs, notes, nearpods, quizizz, kahoots, quizlet, and all other tools for their benefit that they can do in class AND at home mean nothing. So I have to use my lunch to tutor and devote more time to students who are not held accountable, yet I am.

We have an online lab where students who fail go and make up work. How can you get an F in class and make up all 9 weeks of work in 3-4 weeks and get an A, B, or C? Seems odd. So they really never fail. I have students in 8th grade that read on a 1/2 grade level. How can you read that level and comprehend the material in all classes? I have received emails hinting that my kids with an F should get at least a D to help them along. Passing the buck is going to cost us all in the end. Right now at my school we have 25% of the kids failing. That shows me that it is catching up as all these kids don't have the required prior knowledge to properly learn the material in a new grade.


This is why I am not going to be teaching in America much longer. I would rather make less money doing ESL and still save more for MUCH less work. The work load is too great here. I am at work at 8 and leave at 530 most nights. I teach 6 periods a day. So there is not time for everything else like remediation, PTC's, Data days, ERPL, Faculty meetings, etc. The expectations of teachers vs students is so far out of sync here. I hope there is a tipping point soon and that people will wake up and finally realize that students (and their parents) need accountability.

/rant

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Offline JNM

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Re: State of the education system here and abroad
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2017, 10:14:23 AM »
Teaching is no longer seen as an important career.

When I started university (1990), one needed an 80% average to get into science, engineering, or business. Arts was 75%, but Elementary Education was only 65%.

Those poor performing students are now in their mid 40s and running the system.

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Offline Dave Stepz

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Re: State of the education system here and abroad
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2017, 10:24:31 AM »
I would also add in technological advances with mobile phones and the like.  There is too much of a temptation with apps, games and social media that children now need a quick fix or gratification, or something they have to share, or something to 'thumbs up' or 'thumbs down'. 

Quote
Perhaps Facebook should carry a health warning. A study has revealed that the children who spend more time on online social networks feel less happy in almost all aspects of their lives.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/apr/09/social-networks--children-chat-feel-less-happy-facebook-instagram-whatsapp

This unhappiness is brought to school.

Kids as young as 6 or 7 getting phones and using them unchecked is stunting their emotional and mental growth.  It may give the parents a quiet life, but at what cost?  It's addictive.  It's anti-social.  I went home for Christmas last year for the first time in four years and was really excited.  But on Christmas day, in the morning was a line of four kids on the sofa all playing on some electronic device, not talking and not conversing.  It really disappointed me. 

Call me old-fashioned but that is not how I remember my Christmases.  You can talk about a generational difference and me being 100 years old, but it just seems so damaging and gives me a very bleak outlook for the future.  Iphone has adverts showing a guy going to a party and playing on his phone anti-socially, and then by the end everyone is doing it and having a great time.  Such awful semantics to promote.  It doesn't surprise me in the least that children are taking this into the classroom and it is affecting their studies. 

My dad was principal in a big college in England for years and I remember him years back telling me at one meeting that someone raised the idea of not penalising students for using 'texting talk' in their tests.  Can you imagine 'sumfink' like 'dat'? Fook off!

I found this article really interesting:

Quote
Justin Rosenstein had tweaked his laptop’s operating system to block Reddit, banned himself from Snapchat, which he compares to heroin, and imposed limits on his use of Facebook. But even that wasn’t enough. In August, the 34-year-old tech executive took a more radical step to restrict his use of social media and other addictive technologies.

Rosenstein purchased a new iPhone and instructed his assistant to set up a parental-control feature to prevent him from downloading any apps.

He was particularly aware of the allure of Facebook “likes”, which he describes as “bright dings of pseudo-pleasure” that can be as hollow as they are seductive. And Rosenstein should know: he was the Facebook engineer who created the “like” button in the first place.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/05/smartphone-addiction-silicon-valley-dystopia

Did I mention I was one hundred years old?
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Offline gogators!

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Re: State of the education system here and abroad
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2017, 11:17:26 AM »
Quote from: Dave Stepz on October 12, 2017, 10:24:31 AM
I would also add in technological advances with mobile phones and the like.  There is too much of a temptation with apps, games and social media that children now need a quick fix or gratification, or something they have to share, or something to 'thumbs up' or 'thumbs down'. 

Quote
Perhaps Facebook should carry a health warning. A study has revealed that the children who spend more time on online social networks feel less happy in almost all aspects of their lives.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/apr/09/social-networks--children-chat-feel-less-happy-facebook-instagram-whatsapp

This unhappiness is brought to school.

Kids as young as 6 or 7 getting phones and using them unchecked is stunting their emotional and mental growth.  It may give the parents a quiet life, but at what cost?  It's addictive.  It's anti-social.  I went home for Christmas last year for the first time in four years and was really excited.  But on Christmas day, in the morning was a line of four kids on the sofa all playing on some electronic device, not talking and not conversing.  It really disappointed me. 

Call me old-fashioned but that is not how I remember my Christmases.  You can talk about a generational difference and me being 100 years old, but it just seems so damaging and gives me a very bleak outlook for the future.  Iphone has adverts showing a guy going to a party and playing on his phone anti-socially, and then by the end everyone is doing it and having a great time.  Such awful semantics to promote.  It doesn't surprise me in the least that children are taking this into the classroom and it is affecting their studies. 

My dad was principal in a big college in England for years and I remember him years back telling me at one meeting that someone raised the idea of not penalising students for using 'texting talk' in their tests.  Can you imagine 'sumfink' like 'dat'? Fook off!

I found this article really interesting:

Quote
Justin Rosenstein had tweaked his laptop’s operating system to block Reddit, banned himself from Snapchat, which he compares to heroin, and imposed limits on his use of Facebook. But even that wasn’t enough. In August, the 34-year-old tech executive took a more radical step to restrict his use of social media and other addictive technologies.

Rosenstein purchased a new iPhone and instructed his assistant to set up a parental-control feature to prevent him from downloading any apps.

He was particularly aware of the allure of Facebook “likes”, which he describes as “bright dings of pseudo-pleasure” that can be as hollow as they are seductive. And Rosenstein should know: he was the Facebook engineer who created the “like” button in the first place.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/05/smartphone-addiction-silicon-valley-dystopia

Did I mention I was one hundred years old?
And yet I would give your post a like if I could.
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Offline Mr.DeMartino

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Re: State of the education system here and abroad
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2017, 01:45:00 PM »
On the plus side, the mind-numbing effects of smartphones could have a positive effect on in-school violence and disruption.
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Offline eggieguffer

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Re: State of the education system here and abroad
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2017, 02:40:19 PM »
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 12, 2017, 01:45:00 PM
On the plus side, the mind-numbing effects of smartphones could have a positive effect on in-school violence and disruption.

Yes I heard a Korean public school teacher say that in the past the classrooms would be full of shouting/screaming during the breaks but now they're all silent.
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Offline Boquoi

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Re: State of the education system here and abroad
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2017, 04:01:20 PM »
Quote from: eggieguffer on October 12, 2017, 02:40:19 PM
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 12, 2017, 01:45:00 PM
On the plus side, the mind-numbing effects of smartphones could have a positive effect on in-school violence and disruption.

Yes I heard a Korean public school teacher say that in the past the classrooms would be full of shouting/screaming during the breaks but now they're all silent.

Well, the problem is that teachers allowed the shouting/screaming.
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Offline MaximusPrime

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Re: State of the education system here and abroad
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2017, 04:59:35 PM »
Quote from: eggieguffer on October 12, 2017, 02:40:19 PM
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 12, 2017, 01:45:00 PM
On the plus side, the mind-numbing effects of smartphones could have a positive effect on in-school violence and disruption.

Yes I heard a Korean public school teacher say that in the past the classrooms would be full of shouting/screaming during the breaks but now they're all silent.

That is a joke right....? Maybe because I am not "in the city".
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Offline cjszk

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Re: State of the education system here and abroad
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2017, 05:29:21 PM »
It's kind of difficult to pin point all of the problems.

One huge dynamical change I have noticed in particular in Korea however... is...
Teachers have lost almost all of their authority in controlling the students due to parent's mistrust.

20 years ago, in the 90's (and before, I'd assume) many teachers had much, much more power than they did today and many of them were quite tyrannical. My hagwon for example that I went to was extremely hysterical. The head teacher would demand utter silence, scream at us and slam her ruler down and hit children and all the while we were quiet just doing book work (math problems, etc.), she would just be at her desk reading books or whatever. Whenever the phone rang, regardless of whether or not she was busy screaming at us or not, she would pick up the phone and her facial expression would change utterly into a seemingly bright smile and her voice very much as well so as if to tell the parents that the children are in a happy place with a happy teacher.

Now, if you grew up in this environment with so many tyrant teachers abusing their power, and you became an adult with children to send to school... would you trust the teachers to raise your child? Therein lies a trust problem, and many of the adults in Korean society are either too busy/lazy to properly raise their child and give them attention. So you have many children who aren't parented well along with parents who do not trust the teachers.

As a result you get the following:
T: Your child is causing many problems in class... (Teacher hopes parent does something because they can't (anymore))
P: That's your job as a teacher to control them and teach them!!! (Parent shifts blame, even in a current paradigm where teachers have much impaired ability to control students.
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Offline eggieguffer

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Re: State of the education system here and abroad
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2017, 05:46:00 PM »
Quote from: MaximusPrime on October 12, 2017, 04:59:35 PM
Quote from: eggieguffer on October 12, 2017, 02:40:19 PM
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on October 12, 2017, 01:45:00 PM
On the plus side, the mind-numbing effects of smartphones could have a positive effect on in-school violence and disruption.

Yes I heard a Korean public school teacher say that in the past the classrooms would be full of shouting/screaming during the breaks but now they're all silent.

That is a joke right....? Maybe because I am not "in the city".

That's what he told me. I guess different strokes for different schools
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