I heard a simple rule the other day that I think is a good way to filter good and bad behaviour. If you would be uncomfortable with another guy saying it to you in prison, then it is probably not ok.

Quote from: Stephensalz on October 31, 2017, 10:22:53 AM

I watched a video years ago about a woman who recorded every instance of 'harassment' while walking down the street.  Individually, 95% of them were laughable that they would be considered harassment of any sort.  For example, simple hello's were on the recording.  It is a sad world we live in if it is considered harassment to say hello to another person. 

As someone who's been living in Korea for a relatively long time, I'll be the first person to say that saying 'hello' to someone can easily be an unwelcome and uninvited invasion of personal space, and can easily make someone uncomfortable.

I'm a male, so I'm already privileged in that I very rarely have to deal with unwanted sexual harassment, but I feel like most people here can relate to the feeling of someone seeing a foreigner and feeling entitled to say hello, or begin an unsolicited attempt at conversation, just because you're a foreigner.

The same thing happens to women, and it can be harassment. If some guy says hello to you on the street in a context where you're clearly not looking to engage in conversation and he does it for no reason other than the fact that you're a woman, that's unwelcome. "But... but... he was just being friendly! It's the woman's fault for being stuck up and not receptive to his greeting."
Yeah, no. Just like you don't like it when someone, apropos of nothing other than your appearance and race or nationality comes up and says, "Hello! Where you from? American?" people don't like to be spoken to out of appropriate contexts because of their gender.

Is that really that hard to wrap your head around? UGH.
And don't conflate this with people saying hello to each other in situationally appropriate greetings - that's not an issue and isn't the issue here.

Quote from: Stephensalz on October 31, 2017, 10:22:53 AM

I watched a video years ago about a woman who recorded every instance of 'harassment' while walking down the street.  Individually, 95% of them were laughable that they would be considered harassment of any sort.  For example, simple hello's were on the recording.  It is a sad world we live in if it is considered harassment to say hello to another person. 

As someone who's been living in Korea for a relatively long time, I'll be the first person to say that saying 'hello' to someone can easily be an unwelcome and uninvited invasion of personal space, and can easily make someone uncomfortable.

I'm a male, so I'm already privileged in that I very rarely have to deal with unwanted sexual harassment, but I feel like most people here can relate to the feeling of someone seeing a foreigner and feeling entitled to say hello, or begin an unsolicited attempt at conversation, just because you're a foreigner.

The same thing happens to women, and it can be harassment. If some guy says hello to you on the street in a context where you're clearly not looking to engage in conversation and he does it for no reason other than the fact that you're a woman, that's unwelcome. "But... but... he was just being friendly! It's the woman's fault for being stuck up and not receptive to his greeting."
Yeah, no. Just like you don't like it when someone, apropos of nothing other than your appearance and race or nationality comes up and says, "Hello! Where you from? American?" people don't like to be spoken to out of appropriate contexts because of their gender.

Is that really that hard to wrap your head around? UGH.
And don't conflate this with people saying hello to each other in situationally appropriate greetings - that's not an issue and isn't the issue here.

Quote from: Stephensalz on October 31, 2017, 10:22:53 AM

I watched a video years ago about a woman who recorded every instance of 'harassment' while walking down the street.  Individually, 95% of them were laughable that they would be considered harassment of any sort.  For example, simple hello's were on the recording.  It is a sad world we live in if it is considered harassment to say hello to another person. 

As someone who's been living in Korea for a relatively long time, I'll be the first person to say that saying 'hello' to someone can easily be an unwelcome and uninvited invasion of personal space, and can easily make someone uncomfortable.

I'm a male, so I'm already privileged in that I very rarely have to deal with unwanted sexual harassment, but I feel like most people here can relate to the feeling of someone seeing a foreigner and feeling entitled to say hello, or begin an unsolicited attempt at conversation, just because you're a foreigner.

The same thing happens to women, and it can be harassment. If some guy says hello to you on the street in a context where you're clearly not looking to engage in conversation and he does it for no reason other than the fact that you're a woman, that's unwelcome. "But... but... he was just being friendly! It's the woman's fault for being stuck up and not receptive to his greeting."
Yeah, no. Just like you don't like it when someone, apropos of nothing other than your appearance and race or nationality comes up and says, "Hello! Where you from? American?" people don't like to be spoken to out of appropriate contexts because of their gender.

Is that really that hard to wrap your head around? UGH.
And don't conflate this with people saying hello to each other in situationally appropriate greetings - that's not an issue and isn't the issue here.