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  • KimDuHan
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1445

    • January 15, 2015, 11:48:59 am
    • Seoul
Covid Vaccine are equal
« on: June 19, 2021, 12:44:38 am »
https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/canadians-astra-zeneca-broadway-springsteen-1.6070807

So it begins, all vaccines are equal except some are more equal than others.



Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2021, 05:24:10 am »
lol Canada


  • KimDuHan
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1445

    • January 15, 2015, 11:48:59 am
    • Seoul
Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2021, 06:05:28 am »
lol Canada

“Live tapings of Saturday Night Live, Stephen Colbert also block those who got AstraZeneca shots”

USA too! Vaccines are not vaccines unless they pay off powerful people


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6830

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2021, 07:14:20 am »
AstraZeneca manufactured in the US was shipped to Mexico and Canada.

None was used domestically because it was considered an inferior vaccine.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6830

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2021, 07:25:45 am »
The Canadian posting above me thinks its a conspiracy to "pay off powerful people". It's not. The reasoning behind the exclusion is out of safety concern:

The efficacy rate for the AstraZeneca vaccine is about 70%, compared with roughly 95% for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

Also, in limited studies, the AstraZeneca vaccine appears to hardly work at all against some variants of the coronavirus.


https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/06/01/1002067808/astrozenecas-rocky-rollout-the-woes-of-the-vaccine-of-the-world


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6830

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2021, 07:55:25 am »
The first response to this thread was laughing at Canadians for having gotten a crappier vaccine. Let's not do that. It's really rude. Show some empathy. In most of the world there haven't been enough vaccines to go around. People take what they can get.


  • Adel
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1400

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
    more
Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2021, 08:05:47 am »
The Canadian posting above me thinks its a conspiracy to "pay off powerful people". It's not. The reasoning behind the exclusion is out of safety concern:

The efficacy rate for the AstraZeneca vaccine is about 70%, compared with roughly 95% for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

Also, in limited studies, the AstraZeneca vaccine appears to hardly work at all against some variants of the coronavirus.


https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/06/01/1002067808/astrozenecas-rocky-rollout-the-woes-of-the-vaccine-of-the-world

Rather than just focusing of the efficacy of a vaccine in preventing infections you might want to consider how affective a vaccine is providing protection against severe disease.  I'd agree that most of the evidence suggests Pfizer is probably a better vaccine but I'd imagine most vaccine will eventually become less effective against  infections as the virus continues to mutate, as we are already starting to see with the Delta strain. What is  critical though is how well they keep people out of hospital and prevent them from dying.  In this regard Astra still does quite well, despite its higher incidence of side-effects.


Quote
AstraZeneca Vaccine 100% Effective In Preventing Severe Disease And Hospitalizations, U.S. Trials Show
https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/03/22/astrazeneca-vaccine-100-effective-in-preventing-severe-disease-and-hospitalizations-us-trials-show/?sh=dcc06ad43646



  • KimDuHan
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1445

    • January 15, 2015, 11:48:59 am
    • Seoul
Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2021, 08:11:26 am »
Rather than just focusing of the efficacy of a vaccine in preventing infections you might want to consider how affective a vaccine is providing protection against severe disease.  I'd agree that most of the evidence suggests Pfizer is probably a better vaccine but I'd imagine most vaccine will eventually become less effective against  infections as the virus continues to mutate, as we are already starting to see with the Delta strain. What is  critical though is how well they keep people out of hospital and prevent them from dying.  In this regard Astra still does quite well, despite its higher incidence of side-effects.





Doesn’t matter people with AstraZeneca are not allowed to attend events. Does this mean that the other vaccines are vulnerable?

Why would a vaccinated person be scared of a person who took another vaccine? What if the other vaccine causes heart conditions will they automatically be denied health insurance for that brand of vaccine? Looking at young children with side effects from the mRNA vaccine.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6830

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2021, 08:18:14 am »
Rather than just focusing of the efficacy of a vaccine in preventing infections you might want to consider how affective a vaccine is providing protection against severe disease.

Your link is older than mine. And you're missing the point, not just about the new variants (for which Az is less effective than the American brands), but about the spreading of disease to others. Yes, the Az may give good protection to the recipient in terms of how severely the disease may eventually develop, but if it doesn't knock it out quickly in the initial stages, there's an increased spreader risk to others. That's why discrimination against Az-ers is happening, and it's somewhat justified from a mathematical standpoint.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6830

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2021, 08:31:39 am »
Why would a vaccinated person be scared of a person who took another vaccine?

Because the American brands are only 95% effective. And that's on average. The fatter a person is, the less likely the vaccine is to work. Do they want to sit next to someone with a vaccine that is 70% effective? I guess not. Maybe they'd be afraid that person could spread COVID to them, COVID they could give to someone else.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6830

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2021, 08:32:19 am »
Is discrimination morally wrong? Yeah, probably. Mathematically wrong? Hard to say. If people are reading about this kind of discrimination, they might hold off on getting the Az vaccine, waiting for the chance at a better vaccine down the road. That's a longer period of no vaccination, meaning the pandemic will take longer to end. Any vaccine ASAP is better for the world than not being vaccinated. 


  • Adel
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1400

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
    more
Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2021, 10:55:19 am »
Your link is older than mine. And you're missing the point, not just about the new variants (for which Az is less effective than the American brands), but about the spreading of disease to others. Yes, the Az may give good protection to the recipient in terms of how severely the disease may eventually develop, but if it doesn't knock it out quickly in the initial stages, there's an increased spreader risk to others. That's why discrimination against Az-ers is happening, and it's somewhat justified from a mathematical standpoint.
I'm not arguing that Astra is more effective than Pfizer so I'm not sure exactly what your point is.  If I had the choice I would have chosen the Pfizer vaccine. Unfortunately though not everybody has that choice, especially not in developing countries. However, that said, the discrimination issue would only bother me if I had immediate plans for international travel, with the possibility of being able to return home. (I don't have private medical insurance as our socialised medical system is quite adequate for my age cohort). Nonetheless, the way it looks at the moment, international travel isn't going to be possible for us until about mid 2022 by which time the goal post would probably move a fair bit more.  Of far greater concern though, is the risk of long Covid, hospitalisation, and severe disease, given our population's present level of vulnerability and the likelihood of more contagious strains like Delta eventually escaping quarantine and spreading within our community.  For that reason I'm glad I've been vaccinated with Astra rather than nothing at all.


Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2021, 10:57:15 am »
The first response to this thread was laughing at Canadians for having gotten a crappier vaccine. Let's not do that. It's really rude. Show some empathy. In most of the world there haven't been enough vaccines to go around. People take what they can get.
F that. Canadians and Euros always laugh at the U.S. for various things while touting how more enlightened they are and how better their systems are.

Welp, sucks for them. I guess their system failed them and they aren't as enlightened as they thought.
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  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4897

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Cairo, Egypt (formerly Seoul)
Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2021, 06:53:12 pm »
As a Canadian with AZ in my arm, I think the USA (and companies there) are completely correct to only accept vaccine records for FDA approved vaccines.

What I disagree with is nationalistic bias regarding approvals.


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 2712

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
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Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2021, 08:12:41 pm »
I will wait a few years and read eventual comparison studies as to effectiveness and side effects.

Then I'll target which vaccine to inject into my body. Or not.


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4897

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Cairo, Egypt (formerly Seoul)
Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2021, 08:57:19 pm »
I will wait a few years and read eventual comparison studies as to effectiveness and side effects.

Then I'll target which vaccine to inject into my body. Or not.

At this point it is clear that any of them are better than nothing.

UAE had been very open with the trial data for Sinovac. They are doing 3rd shots there for the first recipients because antibodies are dropping.

You can always go to the US and buy whatever you like eventually, but everybody should get what they can as soon as they can unless *your* doctor (not the guy in YouTube) tells you that you should not.



  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 2712

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
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Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2021, 10:03:43 pm »

[
At this point it is clear that any of them are better than nothing.
Really? I have read zero scientific studies of the efficacy of any of these all new "products". Inject them into your arteries at your will. I'll await some - heck - any, independent scientific review of the results.


Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2021, 10:17:09 pm »
I received the first vaccine of az, should I mix it up and ask for pfizer or Moderna? If I do will my status be fully vaccinated or vaccinated with az and therefore equal to someone unvaccinated??  Serious question


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 685

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2021, 11:01:53 pm »
I received the first vaccine of az, should I mix it up and ask for pfizer or Moderna? If I do will my status be fully vaccinated or vaccinated with az and therefore equal to someone unvaccinated??  Serious question

I believe vaccine mixing is only allowed for certain groups, not for the general public.


Re: Covid Vaccine are equal
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2021, 11:29:38 pm »
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/skorea-mix-and-match-covid-19-vaccine-doses-760000-people-2021-06-18/

SEOUL, June 18 (Reuters) - Some 760,000 South Koreans who have received a first dose of AstraZeneca Plc's (AZN.L) COVID-19 vaccine will be offered Pfizer Inc's (PFE.N) vaccine as a second shot due to shipment delays by global vaccine sharing scheme COVAX, the government said.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2021, 11:33:54 pm by thunderlips »