Author Topic: Korean English Teachers Do Not Need a Degree in Education to Teach (Read 569 times)

ToulouseLautrec · « **on:** December 30, 2011, 01:45:28 pm »

This is what my co-teacher told me.

Now, contrary to my subject title, I do not know if this is the case for all teachers, in all schools in all districts. However, my co-teacher, one of two dedicated English teachers, told me she didn't need any specific teaching education from college. She only needed her Bachelor's degree, and to pass a test and an interview.

If this is the case for all other teachers, this means we are not as unqualified as we may have thought. We just don't have as much experience (those of us who are new).

Her revelation really blew my mind, though. If they are willing to hire anyone to be a teacher, it explains almost everything that goes on here. They don't understand why some foreign teachers aren't the best teachers, because they may not realize that to get the best people from other nations-- it's better to hire those with Masters degrees, or at least degrees in Education.

Also, who knows if the people at the top of the chain-- those responsible for this ridiculous "fun fun fun" theory of teaching English-- are actually the most qualified in Education? (BTW, I also found the document that explains their belief that learning through "fun" is the "best practice" -- http://www.mest.go.kr/web/48194/ko/board/view.do?bbsId=286&&boardSeq=25344&mode=view )

IN FACT, the Minister of Education is actually educated to be an economist. (http://english.mest.go.kr/web/1675/site/contents/en/en_0211.jsp) I'm not saying he's not brilliant. He probably is. But he seems to have gotten on Education advisory boards and other positions without studying Education itself, in depth.

In my opinion, this is just one of the ways the Ministry of Ed is shooting itself in the foot when it comes to progressing in English education. Then again, do they actually care that things improve? Surely the bright people at the top of the chain realize that doing the same thing for years has not worked and won't ever work??

Please, share your thoughts.

money55 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 30, 2011, 01:59:38 pm »

The fun theory is probably based on research about the students. ESL is a second language to them. They don't need to know English. They need to pass their test. This is the same as when we were forced to take French, Spanish, Latin, or German in highschool. Kids respond to games. Also since most korean teachers aren't comfortable in speaking english-kids talk to them in korean. Hence the issue. While I don't agree with the edutainment aspect of Korea. I do understand it. Besides this is my life. Now we have speaking test everyday.

Rusty Shackleford · « **Reply #2 on:** December 30, 2011, 02:01:25 pm »

It's incredibly difficult to pass the test.

fishead · « **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2011, 02:18:09 pm »

They call them interns. They get very little respect from both the students and the other staff. They are also not invited to a lot of the evening soju parties. I've worked with quite a few of them. Some of them are business majors. Others just have a degree in almost anything. There are also Contract teachers the actual contract teachers have a teaching certificate but have not yet been hired.

Intern teachers make between I million to 1.5 million. They are hired on yearly contracts. They are not allowed to renew. They must take a job at another school when they are finished.

My previous school was notorious for it's poor treatment of contract/intern teachers very few finished their contracts and several quit without giving any notice. Students quickly learn who are the Intern/ contract teachers. For the most part there classes revert to Anarchy when the students learn that Mr. Kim Mr. Lee is an intern

ToulouseLautrec · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2011, 02:22:47 pm »

Quote from: fishead on December 30, 2011, 02:18:09 pm

They call them interns. They get very little respect from both the students and the other staff. They are also not invited to a lot of the evening soju parties. I've worked with quite a few of them. Some of them are business majors. Others just have a degree in almost anything. There are also Contract teachers the actual contract teachers have a teaching certificate but have not yet been hired.

Intern teachers make between I million to 1.5 million. They are hired on yearly contracts. They are not allowed to renew. They must take a job at another school when they are finished.

My previous school was notorious for it's poor treatment of contract/intern teachers very few finished their contracts and several quit without giving any notice. Students quickly learn who are the Intern/ contract teachers. For the most part there classes revert to Anarchy when the students learn that Mr. Kim Mr. Lee is an intern

Very interesting.... thank you for the explanation.

Yu_Bumsuk · « **Reply #5 on:** December 31, 2011, 09:56:32 am »

There are a number of different types of contracts KETs may have. Tenured teachers at PSs do need a degree in English education. Full-time contract teachers do, too. Part-time teachers / teaching-assistants don't necessarily. Then, recently there's emerged a new position of "conversation teacher", which requires a degree in any subject and a series of interviews. Depending on the province, these may not be very difficult to pass. Here's a little piece I wrote about one generic applicant: http://www.expatkorea.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=18078

Paul · « **Reply #6 on:** January 02, 2012, 08:28:08 am »

The "Fun Fun Fun" thing is yeah, a) from a bit of research but also b) a specific brand name. EBS uses it on all their video branding and some devotees take that brand identity and make it their own as a teacher. The unfortunate flak from the "fun in education" method is that I've seen a stereotype develop in the Korean youth that whforeigners just play games at work, even in serious jobs abroad.

Thank you Toulouse for the explanation, and Yu for the amusing prose.

I have a question: Are all the contract teachers like this in regards to the 1-year merry-go-round? I've had to deal with one utterly atrocious contract co-teacher but the other one I have at present is amazing. I know she's got the degree and everything. She's very young, so obviously this is just a stepping stone to her. What's in store for her? Is there any sort of letter I could write to vouch for her speaking abilities even?

Davox · « **Reply #7 on:** January 02, 2012, 10:16:44 am »

Quote from: Rusty Shackleford on December 30, 2011, 02:01:25 pm

It's incredibly difficult to pass the test.

Understatement of the year, right here. Sure you can theoretically just get any bachelors, take the test, pass and be a teacher. Except in reality you can't, because even the majority of people who actually study Education at specialized teachers colleges here here can't reliably pass the test.

It's that hard.

We're not unqualified because most of us don't have Education degrees. We're unqualified by definition because we haven't passed the test. And probably couldn't even if it was 100% translated into English.

eggplant_tyrant · « **Reply #8 on:** January 02, 2012, 11:04:30 am »

What I'm curious about WRT the test is the grading format -- is it pass/fail, or is it, like so many things here, all about the score you get on the test relative to everyone else? Basically, can you "pass" the test (get a perfectly respectable score) but still "fail" (not score in a high enough percentile)?

Andyroo · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2012, 02:45:16 pm »

I learnt something new about contract teachers the other day.

Our schools science teacher is a contract teacher. She has been here 2 years but if a "full" teacher wants her position then it goes to the "full" teacher and the school has no choice.

So our science teacher has to wait until approx January 15 to find out if anyone wants her job. If they are a full teacher they are gone.

Our science teacher is also a homeroom teacher, runs the broadcast room, lunch monitoring and is usually the first teacher to arrive at school. Her husband is unemployed and they have two kids to support. She has lived her whole life locally.

She is not universally liked because she is stern but I respect her a lot so I would be pretty dissapointed if she is replaced by a fresh grad from out of town.

Yu_Bumsuk · « **Reply #10 on:** January 09, 2012, 03:41:45 pm »

Quote from: Paul on January 02, 2012, 08:28:08 am

The "Fun Fun Fun" thing is yeah, a) from a bit of research but also b) a specific brand name. EBS uses it on all their video branding and some devotees take that brand identity and make it their own as a teacher. The unfortunate flak from the "fun in education" method is that I've seen a stereotype develop in the Korean youth that whforeigners just play games at work, even in serious jobs abroad.

Thank you Toulouse for the explanation, and Yu for the amusing prose.

I have a question: Are all the contract teachers like this in regards to the 1-year merry-go-round? I've had to deal with one utterly atrocious contract co-teacher but the other one I have at present is amazing. I know she's got the degree and everything. She's very young, so obviously this is just a stepping stone to her. What's in store for her? Is there any sort of letter I could write to vouch for her speaking abilities even?

Korean contract teachers are the closest thing to us you'll find here. Some of them will turn out to be short-lived disasters; others are just on their way to bigger and better or something totally different (probably upwards to 50% of the females are just doing something respectable so they can meet Mr Paycheque); and others will keep slogging it out year after year. The only serious difference is that we usually get better housing, slightly better pay, and flights or flight money home, and can (usually) stay at the same school more than four years in a row. I'm sure the latter is only because whoever made that policy never imagined a few of us might.

elzoog · « **Reply #11 on:** January 09, 2012, 03:55:01 pm »

Quote from: Rusty Shackleford on December 30, 2011, 02:01:25 pm

It's incredibly difficult to pass the test.

I'm sure it is. The question is however, is knowing enough stuff to pass the test a good preparation for teaching English. I could for example tell you to multiply 28734 by 298342 in your head and if you can answer it you pass. Would be hard to do right? But would being able to do that prove you would be a good English teacher or that you can even have a basic conversation?

Yu_Bumsuk · « **Reply #12 on:** January 09, 2012, 07:20:00 pm »

Quote from: elzoog on January 09, 2012, 03:55:01 pm

Quote from: Rusty Shackleford on December 30, 2011, 02:01:25 pm
It's incredibly difficult to pass the test.

I'm sure it is. The question is however, is knowing enough stuff to pass the test a good preparation for teaching English. I could for example tell you to multiply 28734 by 298342 in your head and if you can answer it you pass. Would be hard to do right? But would being able to do that prove you would be a good English teacher or that you can even have a basic conversation?

This is going back a few years, but the questions I've seen looked a lot more confusing than demanding in terms of either English or pedagogy. It's a hoop to jump through, that has some vague connection to English and teaching. The seals who can would indeed have certain skills, which may or may not prove useful in a classroom of kids, 90% of whom don't really care to buckle down and try hard.

elzoog · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:30:47 am »

Quote from: Yu_Bumsuk on January 09, 2012, 07:20:00 pm

Quote from: elzoog on January 09, 2012, 03:55:01 pm
Quote from: Rusty Shackleford on December 30, 2011, 02:01:25 pm
It's incredibly difficult to pass the test.

I'm sure it is. The question is however, is knowing enough stuff to pass the test a good preparation for teaching English. I could for example tell you to multiply 28734 by 298342 in your head and if you can answer it you pass. Would be hard to do right? But would being able to do that prove you would be a good English teacher or that you can even have a basic conversation?

This is going back a few years, but the questions I've seen looked a lot more confusing than demanding in terms of either English or pedagogy. It's a hoop to jump through, that has some vague connection to English and teaching. The seals who can would indeed have certain skills, which may or may not prove useful in a classroom of kids, 90% of whom don't really care to buckle down and try hard.

Yeah, so if it really isn't testing actual ability in teaching English, then what use is it even if the test is "hard"?

Also, too many people don't get why I recently took the CELTA. I know it's not going to increase my pay (thanks Alistair recruiter for pointing that out to me). I took it because I thought CELTA would give me ideas on how to be a better teacher more than the 100 hour ITTT TEFL certificate I crammed for. CELTA was a heck of a lot harder than ITTT, but I am hoping that it was useful. Will find out how useful it really was once I get a job and start trying to apply it to some things.

Andyroo · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2012, 07:30:50 am »

Quote from: eggplant_tyrant on January 02, 2012, 11:04:30 am

What I'm curious about WRT the test is the grading format -- is it pass/fail, or is it, like so many things here, all about the score you get on the test relative to everyone else? Basically, can you "pass" the test (get a perfectly respectable score) but still "fail" (not score in a high enough percentile)?

They decide how many positions hey are going to offer (X) and then the top X pass.

I.e they want 100 english teachers in Gyeonggi Do then 100 teachers pass the test in that provence wether 101 people apply or 10,000.

So some provinces are harder than others, I think the test is national (not sure) but the scores needed vary by province. A friend of mine didn't pass the exam in Gyeonggi Do but if she had of taken it in her home town (near Busan) she would have passed and ben a licensed teacher in that province.

Yu_Bumsuk · « **Reply #15 on:** January 10, 2012, 03:51:37 pm »

Quote from: elzoog on January 10, 2012, 04:30:47 am

Quote from: Yu_Bumsuk on January 09, 2012, 07:20:00 pm
Quote from: elzoog on January 09, 2012, 03:55:01 pm
Quote from: Rusty Shackleford on December 30, 2011, 02:01:25 pm
It's incredibly difficult to pass the test.

I'm sure it is. The question is however, is knowing enough stuff to pass the test a good preparation for teaching English. I could for example tell you to multiply 28734 by 298342 in your head and if you can answer it you pass. Would be hard to do right? But would being able to do that prove you would be a good English teacher or that you can even have a basic conversation?

This is going back a few years, but the questions I've seen looked a lot more confusing than demanding in terms of either English or pedagogy. It's a hoop to jump through, that has some vague connection to English and teaching. The seals who can would indeed have certain skills, which may or may not prove useful in a classroom of kids, 90% of whom don't really care to buckle down and try hard.

Yeah, so if it really isn't testing actual ability in teaching English, then what use is it even if the test is "hard"?

Also, too many people don't get why I recently took the CELTA. I know it's not going to increase my pay (thanks Alistair recruiter for pointing that out to me). I took it because I thought CELTA would give me ideas on how to be a better teacher more than the 100 hour ITTT TEFL certificate I crammed for. CELTA was a heck of a lot harder than ITTT, but I am hoping that it was useful. Will find out how useful it really was once I get a job and start trying to apply it to some things.

If you're teaching Korean kids passing the CELTA will mean that (a) you care about your profession enough to shell out some time and money; (b) you're not a total ignoramus when it comes to TEFL speak and English grammar; (c) you're not as bad as the dopey alcoholic who failed the class; and (d) the 22-year-old blonde Canadian geography major with a 2.0 GPA will still get hired ahead of you.

iggyb · « **Reply #16 on:** January 11, 2012, 07:16:17 pm »

"you care about your profession enough to shell out some time and money"

I disagree there. For many, it means they want to go abroad and continue their college life before trying to find "a real job" enough to fork over money to earn a certificate that takes just a little time and effort.

Someone who takes a couple of years to earn a college degree in teaching shows dedication. Even there, I'm much more a fan of experience than a real teaching certificate or some quicky one just about everybody and their brother seem to be getting these days...

These online TESOL certificates are little more than hoop-jumping...in my opinion.

kyndo · « **Reply #17 on:** January 12, 2012, 08:43:43 am »

Quote from: iggyb on January 11, 2012, 07:16:17 pm

"you care about your profession enough to shell out some time and money"

I disagree there. For many, it means they want to go abroad and continue their college life before trying to find "a real job" enough to fork over money to earn a certificate that takes just a little time and effort.

Someone who takes a couple of years to earn a college degree in teaching shows dedication. Even there, I'm much more a fan of experience than a real teaching certificate or some quicky one just about everybody and their brother seem to be getting these days...

These online TESOL certificates are little more than hoop-jumping...in my opinion.

Um, the CELTA program is a 3 month course (or a one month course if you're willing to spend 8 or 9 hours a day on it), isn't offered online, and involves having the CELTA student actually teach classes under the supervision of the instructor for several hours.

It's definitely not one of those online quickies.

While I agree that it's definitely not a teaching degree, I do think that it shows a considerable investment of time and money in the field of education.

iggyb · « **Reply #18 on:** January 12, 2012, 11:35:22 am »

I thought I had deleted that comment shortly after posting it. I realized I didn't know enough about the CELT and was lumping it in with the other TESOL quicky programs I've heard of...

Yu_Bumsuk · « **Reply #19 on:** January 12, 2012, 12:48:19 pm »

Quote from: kyndo on January 12, 2012, 08:43:43 am

Quote from: iggyb on January 11, 2012, 07:16:17 pm
"you care about your profession enough to shell out some time and money"

I disagree there. For many, it means they want to go abroad and continue their college life before trying to find "a real job" enough to fork over money to earn a certificate that takes just a little time and effort.

Someone who takes a couple of years to earn a college degree in teaching shows dedication. Even there, I'm much more a fan of experience than a real teaching certificate or some quicky one just about everybody and their brother seem to be getting these days...

These online TESOL certificates are little more than hoop-jumping...in my opinion.

Um, the CELTA program is a 3 month course (or a one month course if you're willing to spend 8 or 9 hours a day on it), isn't offered online, and involves having the CELTA student actually teach classes under the supervision of the instructor for several hours.

It's definitely not one of those online quickies.

While I agree that it's definitely not a teaching degree, I do think that it shows a considerable investment of time and money in the field of education.

Yep, it's a good 120+ hours of your time, ~$1,000 + accommodation of your money, exposure to fair bit of *theory*, and an effort that less than 10% of people who are actually employed as TEFL teachers will appreciate.

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Author Topic: Korean English Teachers Do Not Need a Degree in Education to Teach (Read 569 times)