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Author Topic: Western Manners and Taboo Topics  (Read 7090 times)

Offline elee09

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Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« on: July 01, 2013, 10:12:17 AM »
I took the Western Manners ppt from the Master Lesson Plan Index and added several slides that relate to taboo topics to discuss with people as well as practice dialogues for situations where the topic of conversation makes one uncomfortable. It worked extremely well with my low level middle schoolers.
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Offline Wintermute

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2013, 12:33:03 PM »
I'm not going to speak for every North American, but I really dont think these topics are taboo or will offend anyone unless they are really really sensitive.

You paint this picture that North Americans are not friendly and very anti social.

Whats so bad about asking if someone has a gf/bf or married? Better to teach we dont ask people if they are married because in NA we wear wedding bands on our left hand, not because it is a personal question. I very rarely see married couples in Korea wear wedding bands but see bf/gf wearing couple rings, so they can relate and understand if given that example.

Its lessons like this that students are so afraid to talk to me and ask me questions, claiming they are worried about it being too personal. When I finally get them to ask its usually something commonly talked about in NA like the food I eat.
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Offline elee09

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2013, 05:28:01 PM »
I have to disagree. My experience here has been quite different, and I do think that asking about a person's relationship status if you don't know them well is a personal question. Nobody here has been shy about asking questions that would be pretty unacceptable in the West, and upon showing and discussing this lesson with several of the other NETS in my city, they were all in agreement and wanted copies of the PPT to use in their classes. I've never ever had anyone here (adults, children, etc) hesitate a moment to think if a question would be too personal to ask. To each their own, I guess, but we all found it to be quite appropriate for the questions that we have to field each day. I think it's important to point out that a question that might be acceptable here would get a negative reaction if asked during a trip abroad. You say that none of these topics are taboo? Really? I'd like to know where it's acceptable to ask a stranger or acquaintance how much they weigh or "What's wrong with your face?" (Yes, I've gotten that one personally.)

I also disagree with your assertion that this presents people as unfriendly and antisocial. I made a special point to discuss just some of the acceptable topics you can bring up with a new friend, as well as saying that if you do inadvertently offend someone, all you need to do is apologize and move on.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 05:32:05 PM by elee09 »
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Offline BloosCorn

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2013, 03:26:09 PM »
I agree with Wintermute here. None of these things are really treated differently here than in America, and most of the time you get uncomfortable questions here it's a case of "I don't know any better," be it a young child or an old person who grew up in Korea before it had electricity.

It also makes me a little uncomfortable when you're talking about how to talk with a new friend in North America. It makes it sound like we're horribly different. You don't have to interact with a new friend back stateside any differently than you would in Korea. The kids know that if you tell your new friend they're fat and ugly they aren't going to get along very well. I wouldn't expect that in Korea I could walk up to someone for the first time and ask then what's wrong with their face and ask them why they aren't married, because they would hate me.

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Offline RoseLinda

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2013, 05:09:52 PM »
I'm with elee09 on this.

Maybe it is fine in America, but asking your teacher why they're not married, why they don't have a bf, and telling them that they 'should' definitely doesn't pass in England. My students love making extremely personal comments. Why head so small? Why no look nice today? You nice body! ... etc.

Sure, some of it they wouldn't say to other Koreans, but the definitely need lessons on how to speak to non-Koreans.

Also, being English, I want more weather based small talk!
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Offline adamjay

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2013, 05:17:03 PM »
"Hello, nice to meet you.  Are you married?"
"I'm sorry, but that's personal."

I don't know, that seems nonsensical to me.  The whole presentation feels much more like a foreigner's complaint than a how-to-chat-up-Americans.  I like the idea, though.  I haven't done a lesson like this because I can't figure how to make it work.  I'm curious as to how it was received by your students. 
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Offline YennedTrebor

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2013, 04:04:24 PM »
Also agree with wintermute, the only people who would even be close to remotely offended by these "taboo" topics are oversensitive people, or people who are trying to be adulters? I've never met a single man in my life who'd be upset about age/weight/marriage questions, and most women aren't "offended" by the questions they would just rather it remain unknown quantities. None of these are taboo for "North America" If so in Britain perhaps an edit is in order.
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Offline Wintermute

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2013, 11:09:59 AM »
Quote
Maybe it is fine in America, but asking your teacher why they're not married, why they don't have a bf, and telling them that they 'should' definitely doesn't pass in England. My students love making extremely personal comments. Why head so small? Why no look nice today? You nice body! ... etc.

Sure, some of it they wouldn't say to other Koreans, but the definitely need lessons on how to speak to non-Koreans.

I see that I am late to reply. but...

Thats not what this lesson is about. It's about talking with everyday people.

I agree that students do not need to know my relationship status and where I live. I am their teacher not their friend.

BUT this lesson is about making english speaking friends, and sounding like a closed off individual just seems socially awkward and creepy. If I was in america, (I wont speak for others in other countries) and I asked a guy, "hey you got a girl?" and he was like, "I dont wanna talk about that" I'd be like "awkwaaarrrd".

Quote
Also, being English, I want more weather based small talk!

i want something a little bit more interesting than the weather. like that new movie that came out. or events going on around town.....or recipe sharing...
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Offline Laci_teacher

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2013, 11:50:08 AM »
Quote from: RoseLinda on July 08, 2013, 05:09:52 PM


My students love making extremely personal comments. Why head so small? Why no look nice today? You nice body! ... etc.

My students do this too! Oh teacher you have S-line, very sexy!
Or even strangers telling my boyfriend that I have a nice body and they are jealous.

I am not offended but it does make me uncomfortable, even after teaching here 2 years. 
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Offline hockeyfan_inkorea

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2013, 11:49:51 AM »
Quote from: BloosCorn on July 08, 2013, 03:26:09 PM
I agree with Wintermute here. None of these things are really treated differently here than in America, and most of the time you get uncomfortable questions here it's a case of "I don't know any better," be it a young child or an old person who grew up in Korea before it had electricity.

It also makes me a little uncomfortable when you're talking about how to talk with a new friend in North America. It makes it sound like we're horribly different. You don't have to interact with a new friend back stateside any differently than you would in Korea. The kids know that if you tell your new friend they're fat and ugly they aren't going to get along very well. I wouldn't expect that in Korea I could walk up to someone for the first time and ask then what's wrong with their face and ask them why they aren't married, because they would hate me.

Koreans can be shameless in their questioning, to the point that it's not in the same ballpark about what is considered fair game, at least in my neck of the woods back home.

It could just be that their English isn't nuanced enough to talk about topics of appearance, diet, relationship status, etc. in an acceptable way but whatever the reason Koreans still consider quite a range of things that generally aren't "fair game" topics of conversation.

I'm not sure how advanced OP wanted the lesson to be but if we're putting together a list of taboo topics in America religion and politics should be there as well.
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Offline sarahteacher3

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2013, 10:44:39 AM »
I liked this! Thanks for posting. I might edit it a bit, but overall I think the students would find it interesting to see what questions may offend people, or what is or isn't polite to talk about. I wonder what topics are taboo in Korean small talk?
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Offline septeacher

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2013, 11:08:01 AM »
This gives me a great idea of what to do next week with my students. Thanks =)
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Offline psJohnny7

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2013, 12:13:32 PM »
I would also like to know how this worked in your class.... It seems the level of English and the amount of text per slide would be far too difficult for my students to grasp and follow.

This is a great layout but seems like it's made for intermediate to high level learners. It's definitely much too difficult for 90% middle school students.
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Offline elee09

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2013, 10:37:15 AM »
It worked really well with my classes, and my school has pretty low English. I had some co-teacher support but overall everyone understood what was going on and they were a lot more engaged than usual. I have some friends who used it in elementary. I assume they made some changes but they also said that they had good results.

As for people thinking that I'm too "touchy", I guess that's your personal preference, but I'd like to see how well it would go if you marched up to a gal on any college campus in the West and started commenting on her relationship status, weight, appearance, etc. All of the dialogues are actually situations I've been in during my time in Korea. Yes, someone has walked up to me and asked if I was married or had a boyfriend without preamble. I come in flushed because it's a billion degrees and I have ADULTS glare at me, get inches from me, point at my face and shout "What's wrong with your face?!" and "You look terrible today!". Maybe it's a regional thing in Korea but it's defiantly a problem where I live, and would be 1000% unacceptable in a Western country.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 10:43:14 AM by elee09 »
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Offline orangeman

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2013, 01:55:13 PM »
Uh, yeah, I have to agree with the OP that those types of questions and comments are considered rude in North America.  It has nothing to do with being overly sensitive or not.  You can choose to answer them if you like, but our culture deems those sorts of questions and comments as rude.  It's like arguing if farting in someone's face is rude.  Maybe some people think it's just a normal biolgoical function, but it doesn't matter.  Our culture deems it rude. 

Honestly, has anyone in North America ever asked anyone here "Are you married" within the first 30 seconds of meeting them?  Or how about yelling at them about their food choices from across the table without being introduced?  And when is it ever alright to ask your friends how much they weigh, especially a woman?!  You think it's ok for children to ask their teacher if they're married on the first day of school?  Their age?  Their weight?  What state/province did you grow up in? 

For the record, I don't like those questions not because I'm trying to hide something or they offend me on the surface.  I don't like them because I know they're used to put me in a box that'll determine how I'm perceived and treated by the person asking.  To me, that's no better than judging me on my gender or skin colour or sexual orientation.  Judge me for who I am, not whether I'm older or younger than you or if I'm married or how much I earn or how many kids I have.  It's such a narrow minded way of looking at people.

To add to the presentation, I would suggest to the students that if they're ever in doubt they can start the question off as, "If you don't mind me asking..." or "Is it ok if I ask you...".  Most people are more recenptive to that sort of language because it takes your feelings into consideration instead of being a barage of pointed inquiries. 
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Offline ajr30

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2013, 02:53:35 PM »
Yeah, I'm with the OP on this. While the conversation bit at the end of the lesson seems a bit odd (I would probably change that). Asking about age, weight, diet, marital status, relationship status, religion, sexual orientation, and politics when you first meet someone is ranges from being a little off-putting and irregular to being flat out rude. After you have met a person and you are getting to know them, you should use your judgement to guess when it would be appropriate. But never when you first meet someone.

Quote from: orangeman on August 30, 2013, 01:55:13 PM
For the record, I don't like those questions not because I'm trying to hide something or they offend me on the surface.  I don't like them because I know they're used to put me in a box that'll determine how I'm perceived and treated by the person asking.  To me, that's no better than judging me on my gender or skin colour or sexual orientation.  Judge me for who I am, not whether I'm older or younger than you or if I'm married or how much I earn or how many kids I have.  It's such a narrow minded way of looking at people.

You're right that it does put you "in a box" but thanks to the Korean language, that's necessary. We don't have the same system of honorifics and polite speech as the Korean language. We also don't have different names for people based on whether they are older/younger, married/single, etc. And since you usually use a person's title instead of their name, that is super important to know in Korean.

I had a discussion about this with my VP. She wanted to know what kind of questions you ask when you first meet someone. She said they always ask: How old are you? Are you married? Because those are big determiners on how Koreans talk to each other.
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Offline kyndo

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Re: Western Manners and Taboo Topics
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2013, 11:54:32 AM »
Quote from: orangeman on August 30, 2013, 01:55:13 PM
For the record, I don't like those questions not because I'm trying to hide something or they offend me on the surface.  I don't like them because I know they're used to put me in a box that'll determine how I'm perceived and treated by the person asking.  To me, that's no better than judging me on my gender or skin colour or sexual orientation.  Judge me for who I am, not whether I'm older or younger than you or if I'm married or how much I earn or how many kids I have.  It's such a narrow minded way of looking at people.
Except of course, in our "culture" one of the first questions most people ask when they meet somebody new is "So, what do you do?" Naturally, they ask this in order to put us in a socio-economic box. Why is that more acceptable than categorizing us according to our age, health, or marital status?
Either way, they're questions that establish social hierarchy and help people figure out how they should act around new acquaintances.
Koreans value certain things differently than we do, so their questions seem strange and off putting, but objectively speaking, there's no difference between "What is your primary source of income?" and "What is your age, weight, and blood-type?" They're all just ways to establish social heirarchy.

Quote from: orangeman on August 30, 2013, 01:55:13 PM
  Our culture deems it rude. 
Okay, yeah, I agree. I think that this might be a good topic to teach in that it reflects interesting differences in our respective societies.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 11:56:40 AM by kyndo »
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