I have exactly the same problem. What kind of games do you use?

Every class will have students who are disruptive, talkative and/or disinterested regardless of their proficiency level.  I teach (second grade only) at a foreign language high school and I pick on the students who I can see are not paying attention by asking them to answer the next question.  I usually ask for volunteers and if no one volunteers, I pick the students who don't seem involved in the lesson or the first student who makes eye contact with me.  They then pick the next student to answer or do an activity.  If they're looking really tired, I tell them that if they all participate and try to the activities, I'll give them some free time at the end of the lesson - they usually push through their work fairly well and end up with around 10 minutes to sleep.

I also frequently start the week with a quick question about everyone's weekend.  If I've done anything particularly interesting (like gone to a festival/concert or had a funny experience), I share this with the students - this seems to really get them excited most days. At the end of the week, I ask them who is going home for the weekend and what their plans are - again, I'll talk about my own plans if I think it's something they'll respond to.

I make a lot of jokes in class, poke a lot of fun at myself, do ridiculous things to regain their attention, etc.  Sometimes they're just really tired and don't want to hear anything.  Since I see my classes four times a week, I give each class one free pass a week: I know which lesson I won't get much out of certain classes so I don't push them on those days but they know that the other three lessons a week, they're expected to try their best. 

<Mod. Edit: Please add your ideas for rewarding your high school students here as well. ie. class party, candy, etc.>

I was curious about any creative discipline techniques teachers might have for high school students.

I have used two methods:

1. for talkative but not completely disruptive students, I have a VIP seat infront of the rest of the class.
2. for very disruptive students, i make them take off their coat and sit in the freezing hall.

I've heard some other creative ones like using a yellow-red card system like soccer. Any other ideas for discipline? I teach 16 classes a week and so far I've been able to keep them under control save for 1 class--too many disruptive students and not enough VIP seats/places to isolate them.

My students agreed to the following:

If they sleep, I take their photo.  At the end of each month, I give a "Best Sleeping Photo" 'award' - it's the one award that most of them don't want to win!
They are allowed to speak Korean in class but then they have to translate everything that they say - I also want to enjoy the jokes!
If they talk incessantly, they will be the first student to 'volunteer' for reading passages or speaking in front of the class. They usually settle down after that.

Ahhaha that is a good tactic!

I like that sleepers photo idea, but I have to say that disciplining in high school all comes down to whether or not your co-teacher gives you authority and/or support. In my case... no. Students defy me to my face and are not then punished by my co. If that's your unfortunate case as well, then teach the ones that want to learn, and give up on the rest. Which I hate to say, but if you aren't given all the resources (ie authority) to be a 'real educator', then you can't do the full job of a 'real educator'.

Quote from: SBracken on April 12, 2012, 10:49:15 AM

I like that sleepers photo idea, but I have to say that disciplining in high school all comes down to whether or not your co-teacher gives you authority and/or support. In my case... no. Students defy me to my face and are not then punished by my co. If that's your unfortunate case as well, then teach the ones that want to learn, and give up on the rest. Which I hate to say, but if you aren't given all the resources (ie authority) to be a 'real educator', then you can't do the full job of a 'real educator'.

It's certainly harder if you don't have the support of your co-teacher but it's not impossible.  Don't wait for your co-teacher to punish students; it the students see that you're consistent, serious and follow through with threats, they usually come around - it just takes a lot longer.  I had that situation last year and the previous year with two classes of second graders; my co-teachers this year (even though two of the three are new at my school) leave the discipline to me because they've seen that I follow through with threats and punishments; my kids know it too so they quickly shaped up.  The first month or two of the school year is most important for setting boundaries and enforcing rules.  After this period, you're pretty much looking at the trend of your lessons (and battles) for the remainder of the year.

ah, but in my case my threats are empty, since I have no classroom discipline support. I literally cannot follow through, unless the students want to be punished. If students are acting out, being loud, whatever, and I tell them to, for example, stand up as punishment, they will flat-out refuse. With my co-teacher in the room, watching. Even when I ask her to assist me in said discipline. Apparently she's scared of a lot of the students since they are bigger than she is. Aside from smacking the kids (hello, deportation ticket!) or taking it to the principal (hello, foreigner-can't-do-the-job!), I just have to work around it.

Quote from: SBracken on April 12, 2012, 03:20:06 PM

Quote from: Jozigirl on April 12, 2012, 11:06:53 AM

Quote from: SBracken on April 12, 2012, 10:49:15 AM

I like that sleepers photo idea, but I have to say that disciplining in high school all comes down to whether or not your co-teacher gives you authority and/or support. In my case... no. Students defy me to my face and are not then punished by my co. If that's your unfortunate case as well, then teach the ones that want to learn, and give up on the rest. Which I hate to say, but if you aren't given all the resources (ie authority) to be a 'real educator', then you can't do the full job of a 'real educator'.

It's certainly harder if you don't have the support of your co-teacher but it's not impossible.  Don't wait for your co-teacher to punish students; it the students see that you're consistent, serious and follow through with threats, they usually come around - it just takes a lot longer.  I had that situation last year and the previous year with two classes of second graders; my co-teachers this year (even though two of the three are new at my school) leave the discipline to me because they've seen that I follow through with threats and punishments; my kids know it too so they quickly shaped up.  The first month or two of the school year is most important for setting boundaries and enforcing rules.  After this period, you're pretty much looking at the trend of your lessons (and battles) for the remainder of the year.

ah, but in my case my threats are empty, since I have no classroom discipline support. I literally cannot follow through, unless the students want to be punished. If students are acting out, being loud, whatever, and I tell them to, for example, stand up as punishment, they will flat-out refuse. With my co-teacher in the room, watching. Even when I ask her to assist me in said discipline. Apparently she's scared of a lot of the students since they are bigger than she is. Aside from smacking the kids (hello, deportation ticket!) or taking it to the principal (hello, foreigner-can't-do-the-job!), I just have to work around it.

If they don't want to stand / move I just start tipping the back of their chairs until they can either stand or fall in a heap.

I have one third-year HS class that's really been annoying me with their inability to pay attention or do group work. Starting next week I'm going to teach them in their classroom instead of the English room and start treating them like MS students - and keeping them late if they're off-task while letting the other third-year classes finish a bit early. Maybe they'll get the hint.

Keeping them late is a good idea. I usually write "Class finish time: [time]" on the board and add minutes. Occasionally students try to escape when I'm not looking but I can really yell. Plus, because my co-teachers seldom come to class, they support me in discipline because they don't want to have to come to class and start disciplining students themselves.

@SBracken, if it's come so far, you've got an uphill struggle ahead of you. I've heard recording the students' bad behaviour is one way of going about it - never tried it myself though. Why won't you take a student to someone in higher authority? Your CT should really have your back in this issue. Taking a student to the head of English, the student council office, the head of students (discipline), the VP or the Principal are all possible. That your co-teacher's terror of teens and lack of classroom management skills have forced you into it is not to your detriment. She needs a kick up the backside.

With one class, and only one, this semester, during the first class of the semester, they were whipping out phones, mirrors and constantly nattering. My changes of expression and death stares had only temporary effects and every time I turned around, they were chatting again. I very calmly lost it and put on my "I'm going to need a cigarette after this class" quiet fury face. The students know when you're serious. Never ever smile when disciplining. Whereas every other class in the school still sits in groups in the English Room, class 2-5 now sits in row half a meter apart like when they have exams. They don't trouble me now. They have a choice; nice happy flasyb who acts out things and prances around like a good little waeg teacher or cold staring quiet anger flasyb. Most classes make their unconscious decision as to their preference early on.

That being said, I have one class of predominately boys who are cheeky and always mess around, beat each other etc. I had to force into my head the notion that they were loveable rogues. I got pally with them and now I find the best look to use on them is one of sheer "I expected more from you than this" disappointment.

I still have at least one class a week where the students act out though. Most teachers do.

Quote from: flasyb on April 12, 2012, 06:52:07 PM

@SBracken, if it's come so far, you've got an uphill struggle ahead of you. I've heard recording the students' bad behaviour is one way of going about it - never tried it myself though. Why won't you take a student to someone in higher authority? Your CT should really have your back in this issue. Taking a student to the head of English, the student council office, the head of students (discipline), the VP or the Principal are all possible. That your co-teacher's terror of teens and lack of classroom management skills have forced you into it is not to your detriment. She needs a kick up the backside.

haha don't I know it. And speaking of the things I do know, my co is the head of English (as in, the only English teacher, besides me- small school), and a fair majority of the student council is in said demon class. I've been seriously thinking about the VP or even the big P himself, but... I can't see herding 20 students down to his eminence. Honestly, I sort of just laugh at how ridiculous it all is (which is, incidentally, how I cope with that, that and my tea). It's something fit for one of those high-school-slacker-class-turned-stars motivational B-movies (anybody here ever seen Sister Act 2?). The rest of my classes (save one, which is only half sour) are great.

Haha, your co-teacher is the head of English! Makes my glad that all my co-teachers are middle-aged ajussis.

Hmmm, well, I'd recommend changing the seating into exam style seating which you assign so that nobody is too close to their chief partners in crime (move the tables before they arrive, stand in the door and direct them to their new seats). Don't smile, don't laugh at their jokes or how absurd they are, just move them. If any persist in acting out, take that individual to the vice principal (at my school he lives in the main teacher office so other teachers will see and you might catch a homeroom teacher too) - I'd never recommend taking all 20. If your Korean is not so good, I'm sure a waygook.org user could help you out (mine's poor). Another thing you could do is write names on the board of the worst offenders (gets their attention), find out who their homeroom teachers are and go to their homeroom during morning registration.

The other option is to just go with the flow and write the class off. Better to attempt new discipline techniques I think but if your co-teacher won't even support you in your attempts to discipline, and polls regularly show that CTs consider discipline to be their responsibility, then you have effectively got 0 support network. I wouldn't go there until you've tried other methods. A letter to your CT highlight the problem might go some way too.

When it comes to new discipline techniques... I haven't tried full-out screaming and I don't want to (everything else though has been ticked off as ineffective). High schoolers with low/no English... man. They already resent the fact that they don't speak English (wonder why that is...). And since they have no respect for me nor are expected to, shouting at them would just make them laugh. Plus, I don't want to have to lead a class like that. If it was one or two or even five students, I would be drafting a little speech right now to my coteacher about her escorting them to VP님.

Speaking as someone who had a couple of truly evil classes last year, I really really sympathize. My guess is that this class is evil to all the teachers, so if nothing else, remember that this isn't personal and isn't happening because you're the foreigner. It's just a terrible mix of kids.

As other people have said, changing things at this point might be really hard, but what saved my butt in a couple classes was getting a list of names and taking attendance every. single. time. Didn't matter if it took  ten minutes. At the beginning of every class, I stood in front of the room, announced that I was doing a "name check", and starting calling them by number. Kids who were there got an O, kids who weren't got an X. If a kid acted up, I asked what their number was (in Korean if necessary, snapping "번호?" works wonders) and very obviously writing a note or something down on your attendance sheet works wonders.  Doing this establishes you as someone in charge, even if it's just a little bit. You start to memorize the good and bad kids' names, all the kids except the very worst ones will listen to you for a couple minutes because they have no idea if you're BSing or not, and if necessary you can point the bad ones out to their homeroom teacher later, with or without your coteacher's help.

Also: confiscate EVERYTHING. Write the student's name and number on a sticky note if you take anything expensive, so you can hand it over to the homeroom teacher later, but keep everything else. If the student won't hand it over, stare them down and wait with your hand out. It might take five minutes, but they'll hand things over eventually. Do not smile at them, do not joke with them, whip out the "야!" and yell at them in Korean if you can. Don't lose your temper, but look like you're very close to it. Ninety percent of the time I am goofy with my students and most of my "discipline" involves stacking things on sleeping kids' heads, but they know I can make them stand and read in chorus from the textbook for an hour if they make me angry. If you're serious, it will show in your expression and most kids will pick up on that.

And I know this is the hardest thing ever, but don't give up on the class. Wipe the slate clean at the end of the day. Come in the next week assuming things will be great. As long as they're marginally respectful, let your worst students joke around with you outside the classroom. I've won more students over that way than by being a disciplinarian.

Good luck! ^^

Yeah sometimes you just have to do your best.

The circumstances of the Korean HS classroom are kind of insane. I really wonder who sat down and decided: "We'll take someone with no experience teaching and put them in a class with 40 apathetic students with whom they have a language barrier. There will be no grades or tests on English and in addition we'll just expect them to create their own curriculum and lesson plans from scratch without a textbook. "

I've wondered the same myself many times. I reckon in the mad rush to bring NETs to Korea, nobody actually considered the logistics of it and certainly nobody prepared the KETs in high schools for co-teaching or team-teaching. The difference between elementary and high school is that in elementary, you are frequently an essential teacher teaching from textbooks for exams whereas in high school, you're just window dressing and your subject is extra-curricular. If I quit tomorrow, the only difference would be that my CTs would actually have to turn up to the classes they usually cut out on and teach them.