July 19, 2017, 08:01:37 AM


Author Topic: Asking for advice for "Of Mice and Men"  (Read 7807 times)

siamagoo

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Re: Asking for advice for "Of Mice and Men"
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2011, 11:40:09 PM »
If you could tell me why YOU can't relate to the story I would be interested as well.

Wow, writing a response to your questions has dug up some really intersting self-reflection. All of a sudden I want to go back to college and write essays. I really wish I could invite you out for a cup of coffee and we could argue over these things.

About why I couldn't relate to it: I grew up in the north-east in a nice suburb with vacations to Disney World when I was little and to Europe when I got older. Depression-era America seemed as far from my life as the Choson dynasty.

Why do I think "Of Mice and Men" is a strange choice for an ESL classroom? I can't come up with a better answer than because it was part of the Western Canon that was crammed down my throat in high school.

Offline GEK

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Re: Asking for advice for "Of Mice and Men"
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2011, 01:43:08 AM »
If you could tell me why YOU can't relate to the story I would be interested as well.

Wow, writing a response to your questions has dug up some really intersting self-reflection. All of a sudden I want to go back to college and write essays. I really wish I could invite you out for a cup of coffee and we could argue over these things.

About why I couldn't relate to it: I grew up in the north-east in a nice suburb with vacations to Disney World when I was little and to Europe when I got older. Depression-era America seemed as far from my life as the Choson dynasty.

Why do I think "Of Mice and Men" is a strange choice for an ESL classroom? I can't come up with a better answer than because it was part of the Western Canon that was crammed down my throat in high school.

Wasn't Chaucer also "crammed down your throat?"  Maybe not...

Didn't we all take something away from Chaucer and the rest of the Canon?   

Why shouldn't ESL kids be able to do the same?  It's just more challenging for the teacher.  That's the rip.   

Are you serious when you say that you could not relate to "Of Mice and Men?"  Nothing, nada, zip, zilch, waste of time? 

There's a reason most universities in the U.S. require everyone to take at least one literature class, one social science course, one math course, etc.  It's part of a well rounded education.   

siamagoo

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Re: Asking for advice for "Of Mice and Men"
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2011, 11:33:40 PM »
Inspired by this thread, I'm now re-reading "Of Mice and Men". I really enjoy it, but I can see how my younger self wouldn't feel the same.

For example, the main theme of the opening chapters is George's looking after Lenny. Now, reading this as an adult, it has a lot of meaning for me. I remember how bad I felt about being a drain on my parents while I was in college, and so I sympathize with Lenny's offering to go off into the mountains. I've also been thinking a lot about taking care of my parents when they are older, and the sacrifices I might have to make, so I closely watch how George looks after Lenny.

But did I think about either of these things when I was 16? Nope. Like most Korean students, I  was just thinking about getting a good grade so I could get into a good college.

Did I get anything from it? To be honest I don't remember much of the Big Names in Literature. I didn't really start analyzing what I read until senior year when we read modern literature. But maybe I just didn't have good teachers before then.

So, my thinking is obviously biased, but I believer the original poster can prompt discussions about human rights, moral behaviour and good societies by watching a well-picked episode of Battlestar Galactica. Plus, the kids will be more engaged and it will be easier to find subtitles.

Offline elzoog

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Re: Asking for advice for "Of Mice and Men"
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2011, 06:13:01 AM »
Inspired by this thread, I'm now re-reading "Of Mice and Men". I really enjoy it, but I can see how my younger self wouldn't feel the same.

For example, the main theme of the opening chapters is George's looking after Lenny. Now, reading this as an adult, it has a lot of meaning for me. I remember how bad I felt about being a drain on my parents while I was in college, and so I sympathize with Lenny's offering to go off into the mountains. I've also been thinking a lot about taking care of my parents when they are older, and the sacrifices I might have to make, so I closely watch how George looks after Lenny.

But did I think about either of these things when I was 16? Nope. Like most Korean students, I  was just thinking about getting a good grade so I could get into a good college.

The problem is, Korean culture doesn't encourage 16 year olds to grow up.   So even though you didn't think of these things at 16, you are thinking about them now.   Whereas if you talk very deeply with most of your coteachers, you will find that many of them, by and large, still think like 16 year olds.

The thing is, I don't know of ANY Koreans who enjoy learning just for the sake of learning, or because they are curious about something.   Everything to them has to have an angle, such as, giving them a good business idea.  Or getting a good grade so you can go to a good college (and then forgetting about what you had to learn to get the good grade).   

It's the reason many foreigners who have been in Korea for awhile, don't feel good here.   If a Korean talks to you, you really don't know if they sincerely want to be friends, or if there is some angle to it.

If somebody in high school or college didn't encourage you to think beyond the immediate gratification stage, you would still be thinking like a 16 year old today. 

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So, my thinking is obviously biased, but I believer the original poster can prompt discussions about human rights, moral behaviour and good societies by watching a well-picked episode of Battlestar Galactica. Plus, the kids will be more engaged and it will be easier to find subtitles.

I find it doesn't matter.    The kids have the same reaction to Blade Runner.


Offline conorsean

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Re: Asking for advice for "Of Mice and Men"
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2011, 07:08:20 PM »
Download the film version of it (after you've read it, of course), off of t'internet. John Malkovich gives the performance of his life and George is played by 'Mac' off CSI New York. If you enjoyed the book I reckon you'll like this take on it.
It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

Offline taebaekluke

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Re: Asking for advice for "Of Mice and Men"
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2011, 11:36:55 AM »

The problem is, Korean culture doesn't encourage 16 year olds to grow up.   So even though you didn't think of these things at 16, you are thinking about them now.   Whereas if you talk very deeply with most of your coteachers, you will find that many of them, by and large, still think like 16 year olds.

Totally unfounded and stereotyping rubbish.

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Korean culture doesn't encourage 16 year olds to grow up.

Do you know anything of the responsibilities of these kids? Half of my students volunteer at least twice a month, all study ethics as part of their high school course, are required to write essays about the importance of family and friendship in their lives. A lot of them form their own clubs and societies for weekend school, and make an effort to help their classmates with difficult material when they're studying together. Actually, just looking at my 2nd graders this year in comparison to when they were 1st grade last year, they've grown up a hell of a lot, and most of them are more mature than I was when I was a 17 year old high schooler.

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if you talk very deeply with most of your coteachers, you will find that many of them, by and large, still think like 16 year olds.

I'm beginning to think that you're a little racist, or just ignorant.

[sorry to put this thread off topic. i was just shocked by this person's post]

Offline elzoog

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Re: Asking for advice for "Of Mice and Men"
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2011, 12:47:26 PM »
Totally unfounded and stereotyping rubbish.

My 46 year old coteacher had a great weekend plan on going to a car show, not to look at the cars, but to check out the hot women next to the cars.

This is something I would expect from a 16 year old, not from a 46 year old man.

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Korean culture doesn't encourage 16 year olds to grow up.

Do you know anything of the responsibilities of these kids? Half of my students volunteer at least twice a month, all study ethics as part of their high school course, are required to write essays about the importance of family and friendship in their lives. A lot of them form their own clubs and societies for weekend school, and make an effort to help their classmates with difficult material when they're studying together. Actually, just looking at my 2nd graders this year in comparison to when they were 1st grade last year, they've grown up a hell of a lot, and most of them are more mature than I was when I was a 17 year old high schooler.

When I was 17, I got the entire orchestral score to Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" just because I was curious.   Later, when I was 19, I sort of independently discovered and published a general formula for integrating inverse functions.

Neither of these things are all that particularly remarkable.  There are plenty of people in the world who do even smarter things than this.

However, the seniors in the high school I teach at, despite studying English ever since the 3rd grade, can't even tell me what the word "introduction" means.

The school you teach at is probably the exception rather than the rule.


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if you talk very deeply with most of your coteachers, you will find that many of them, by and large, still think like 16 year olds.

I'm beginning to think that you're a little racist, or just ignorant.

[sorry to put this thread off topic. i was just shocked by this person's post]

Then why is it that even my coteachers can't really understand "Of Mice and Men" whereas in America, high school students are expected to try to understand it?



Offline taebaekluke

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Re: Asking for advice for "Of Mice and Men"
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2011, 03:05:38 PM »
Because this is not America, and they're not American. And 'Of Mice and Men' is written from an American historical/cultural viewpoint.

Your co-teacher was probably joking about the car show...

Your students didn't tell you the meaning of 'Introduction' because they lack the structure, not because they don't know what it means (can you explain '소개하다' in perfect Korean, to a Korean speaker?).

Give your co-workers / students a chance. I'm sure they can impress you if you let them.


 

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