It seems that western cultures pretty much universally consider "Of Mice and Men" to be a classic.   However, I notice that Korean have a hard time relating to it.   So much so that it is even difficult to get Korean subtitles for the movie made in the 90s of it (I show them the movie because I figure it's more engaging than trying to have them read the book).

I am posting some of the material I tried making for it.   From you guys' experience, what are the reasons Koreans can't relate to this story as much?

On topic, in my experience Korean people generally do not have the same sympathy for mentally handicapped children, or, for that matter, any person with a mental disease or problem compared to Britain and Ireland. This is one of the reasons they have such high rates of suicide in Korea. Yes, this is starting to change, but this is a very recent phenomena and is certainly not ingrained into the Korean mindset like it is in Britain and Ireland.

To be fair, there are a number of issues that could be explored in the "Of Mice and Men" story besides the mental handicap of Lennie.

1)  If someone is suffering in ANY way (not just in the mentally handicapped way) is it okay to euthanize him?

2)  What are the limitations of the other characters in the story that contributed to the final outcome?

3)  How well did Steinbeck (or the movie writer) make you understand the characters in the movie?   What motivates them, their history, etc.

4)  Are there any plot problems?   In other words, parts of the story that don't make sense.

5)  Is there any moral message in the story (besides be kind to the mentally ill) that you can apply in your everyday life?

I could think of more, but you get the idea.

Out of curiosity, what sorts of questions, if any, did your students ask you after watching the film?

I think this lesson could generate an excellent discussion. My students are fairly good at English and I think, even for my advanced class, generating and sustaining a conversation about this film would be difficult for the students. Did your students discuss their confusion with you?

Out of curiosity, what sorts of questions, if any, did your students ask you after watching the film?

I'm interested in hearing about this as well.

I'm about to start night classes with high level 3rd graders, some of whom will likely will go on to take English Lit modules in university, so it would be a great chance to introduce them to something like this.

I can imagine though that they'd find it really tough to formulate questions and discuss the themes in the film.

Brilliant presentation by the way. Any chance you could upload the subtitles file (or PM it to me?) and link to the video download? cheeers.

I've taught novels before but never to an esl class.

I'm more interested in how the korean students actually respond.

Out of curiosity, what sorts of questions, if any, did your students ask you after watching the film?

I think this lesson could generate an excellent discussion. My students are fairly good at English and I think, even for my advanced class, generating and sustaining a conversation about this film would be difficult for the students. Did your students discuss their confusion with you?

No, really wish they would though.   A lot of times they give responses that are way out in left field.   For example, when Crooks said,
"They say I stink.  Well I'll tell you all of y'all stink to me."
They thought that "stink" referred to some kind of animal smell, like a skunk.   I have no idea where they got that from after looking at that sentence.  I don't think it's a stupid response though.

Trouble is when I say "No, not exactly." they usually don't want to try again.  Unless it's my more advanced 3-1 class.

Quite often I give a reward when they give an answer that is close to being right, but not exactly.

Quote from: taebaekluke on April 01, 2011, 02:48:10 AM

Quote from: ggorosave on March 31, 2011, 03:38:39 PM

Out of curiosity, what sorts of questions, if any, did your students ask you after watching the film?

I'm interested in hearing about this as well.

I'm about to start night classes with high level 3rd graders, some of whom will likely will go on to take English Lit modules in university, so it would be a great chance to introduce them to something like this.

I can imagine though that they'd find it really tough to formulate questions and discuss the themes in the film.

Brilliant presentation by the way. Any chance you could upload the subtitles file (or PM it to me?) and link to the video download? cheeers.

Sorry, couldn't find a Korean subtitles file.   To be honest, I am using this movie for English immersion.   I do have the DVD version which has English subtitles, which makes it a little easier.

The DVD file is 4 GB.   Not an easy thing for me to just send to you.   However, you can download it yourself I think here:

http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/99434737/Of+Mice+and+Men?tab=summary

It looks like maybe the torrent isn't supported anymore.   If that doesn't work, you might try:

http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/99434737/Of+Mice+and+Men?tab=summary

If that doesn't work, let me know and I will find a way to send the file to you.   It will be 4 GB big though so make sure you have enough space for it.

http://gom.gomtv.com/jmdb/view.html?intSeq=411424&preface=0&spage=1

sometimes gom player has korean subtittles for movies. there's one there for "Of Mice and Men."

you have to be careful though. some of them are out of sync.

Cleaning up this thread now.  Any future off-topic posts or personal attacks and it will be locked. 

Conorsean and GEK, you two have received several warnings about attacks, about off-topic posts, and about professionalism on the forums.  Consider this your final warning, and any future infractions and you will find yourselves banned.

So anyway (I was a bit put off when it went off topic, thanks moderator).   If anyone wants to try "Of Mice and Men" I am willing to share everything I have already tried.   I am just having a hard time getting Koreans in general to relate to it. 

One thing I tried was, I started out with the question "What is a classic?"   Gave the following examples from the 1960s

1)  Ray Stevens "Ahab the Arab"
2)  The Beatles "Wild Honey Pie"
3)  The Dave Clark Five  "Because"
4)  Tiny Tim  "Tiptoe through the tulips"
5)  Simon and Garfunkel  "Sound of Silence"

I chose these for the following reasons

1)  I got that from a list of "the worst songs of the 60s"   This is to give students the idea that classic does not mean old.   To be honest, the Tiny Tim song is another example of this (it was WIDELY talked about and made fun of during that time).  After playing "Ahab the Arab" I actually said, "That was pretty terrible wasn't it?"

2)  I chose "Wild Honey Pie" to give students the idea that just because the group is famous (i.e. The Beatles) doesn't mean the song is classic.   

3)  I chose "Because" by the Dave Clark Five because to be honest, it's quite an enjoyable song to listen to.   I kind of like it personally.   However, it is 2011 and nobody talks about the Dave Clark Five.  Not even in America.   This is an example of a good song, but it just somehow doesn't stand the test of time.

4)  See 1

5)  Simon and Garfunkel's song is definitely a classic.  It is enjoyable to listen to, AND people still talk about it today.  Although, it did make a list of one of the top 100 worst songs on some lists.   But I think that says more about the person making the list, than about the song itself.

I'm an American and I have trouble relating to "Of Mice and Men". It's one of my least favorite books from high school and I would have hated it if I had to read it in a different language.

It might just be that your students aren't big literary buffs like you.

I don't think of myself as a big literary buff.   In my spare time, one of the "intellectual" things I like to do the most is write Java programs.  Specifically, I am working on a program to find good polynomial fits to curves, and to do some number theory.

Stories, movies, and songs that have a good moral lesson, or a human interest lesson, is just another thing I am interested in.

Since my job is to teach English, I also think that trying to find what is considered to be the "best examples" of English is part of my job.   Just like, if I was teaching Java programming, trying to find the best examples of Java code would be part of my job.

Can you tell me why you couldn't relate to it?

They might prefer some lighter reading. Even if you're teaching the literature class at an international school to a group of fluent English speakers, there are easier ways to teach reading. I guess I just don't understand why you're teaching this book.

I am actually teaching the movie, not the book. 

Reason I am doing it, is because I can personally relate to the story a bit (although for me personally, Blade Runner is more powerful).   And I want the students to start thinking of higher issues such as

1) Human rights.
2) What makes a good society, or bad society.
3) How to be a good human being.
4) What is the moral thing to do.

I am not against something that is just entertainment.    An example of something that is just entertainment that I showed students at the end of last year was "Inception" (although the subject of lucid dreams is an interesting one, the movie didn't delve into that idea very deeply and in fact, had a few serious flaws).

I just think my job as a teacher, is to help students think better.

Having said that, maybe one way to understand the cultural differences is have the students re-write the book as it would have happened if Korea. They can do this in writing, or maybe as a play or newspaper report or whatever. Someone suggested that maybe Koreans have trouble relating to the mentally unstable. So, in the student-written version, is 레니 treated kindly or not? You can then discuss the differences between the Korean version and the real version.

That might be a good idea.

If you could tell me why YOU can't relate to the story I would be interested as well.