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Author Topic: RUDE STUDENTS!!  (Read 3126 times)

ryanfe

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2011, 02:31:06 pm »
My experience has been great.  Then again... it all depends on your attitude.  Most of my experiences in life have been great.  Teach with love my friend...
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bobranger

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2011, 02:33:36 pm »
These methods have helped my classroom management skills:

1. Don't assume that they understand anything at all. Break every task down into baby steps, from the way you want them to put their heading on the paper to the way you want them to behave. Model the way you want things done, have them do it for you, praise their efforts and tell them what they need to do differently, let them do it again. Every day, tell them what you want them to do and praise them when they do it. Yes, you'll feel silly, but it seems to work. Especially praise them when they do it without being told.

2. Praise should be random after the first few times for one behavior, so they don't come to take it for granted. "Jane has his paper out with his heading on it, Tina has his paper out with his heading on it, Lucy has her paper out with her heading on it..." is all you need to say.

3. KEEP CALM. If at all possible, draw attention to kids who are doing the right thing and not the ones who are being disruptive or off-task. They love to make teachers lose their cool!

4. I focus strongly on every student's right to have a safe, supportive learning environment. If someone is criticizing or bad-mouthing another student's work, ideas, or answers I say to the offender (usually privately but sometimes in front of the class), "Jane, I am not going to let anybody in this room criticize you like that. This is a place where you can feel safe to do your best and make mistakes without getting criticized. And I'm not going to let you do that to anybody else either. Fair enough?"

5. If several students are talking at once, I remind them that I am so attention-deficit that I can't concentrate on what a person is saying if there are distractions. I say, "Help me out here. I want to hear what Jennifer is saying."

6. (Maybe this should be #1) Get Harry Wong's book, "The First Days of School." Read it. It is tried-and-true wisdom.

7. Go easy on yourself. Don't get frustrated with your lesson plans--you are learning how long it will take to teach a story and the activities that go with it. Once the kids learn exactly what you expect and that you are going to consistently reinforce desirable behavior, perhaps they will settle down and move faster, but for now accept the fact that however long it takes is how long it takes. They keep telling us that the focus should be on quality, not quantity.

8. It's likely that many of your students come from homes where the noise level is high, people compete for attention, and the TV is always on. Calm, quiet spaces are threatening to some kids--it means there is something wrong when it happens at home. That takes a while to overcome. Try letting them hear soft, INSTRUMENTAL music while they are working. Research shows that remarkable things happen to people's thought processes when they listen to classical music (Bach and Mozart music especially promotes clarity of thought).

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Rusty Shackleford

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2011, 02:39:51 pm »
Thanks for the advice bobranger. It is useful in a context where the students aren't already going bat[mod edit] spastic from the get go.

This is how my last class went

1.54- Class starts. Co-teacher spent 10 minutes reaming them out before class started up to that time.
1.54- 2.05-Getting everyone on the right page and book. Pointed out we can have a game if we finish the pages(motivation) .
2.15-Have finished one activity. It should have taken 4 mins, but one kid wouldn't stop shouting "WAAAAASSAAAAABIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!
2.17-Finish explaining we can't play the game unless we finish the work.
2.20- We had to turn the page, so that took 3 mins to get everyone on the same page.
2.35-Get the work done, but I haven't spoken in 15 mins. Luckily the CD has the instructions in audio form. So I just play those, give those who are listening time to do the work, then put up the answer. I don't like to think I have given up. But how do you tell 15 kids individually to be quiet and stop touching each other?
During that time, I also go around and help students who need it. Talking to the class as a whole is a write off.

How would those with awesome classroom management skills handle this?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 03:33:45 pm by Rusty Shackleford »
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Yu_Bumsuk

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2011, 03:52:23 pm »
Thanks for the advice bobranger. It is useful in a context where the students aren't already going bat[mod edit] spastic from the get go.

This is how my last class went

1.54- Class starts. Co-teacher spent 10 minutes reaming them out before class started up to that time.
1.54- 2.05-Getting everyone on the right page and book. Pointed out we can have a game if we finish the pages(motivation) .
2.15-Have finished one activity. It should have taken 4 mins, but one kid wouldn't stop shouting "WAAAAASSAAAAABIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!
2.17-Finish explaining we can't play the game unless we finish the work.
2.20- We had to turn the page, so that took 3 mins to get everyone on the same page.
2.35-Get the work done, but I haven't spoken in 15 mins. Luckily the CD has the instructions in audio form. So I just play those, give those who are listening time to do the work, then put up the answer. I don't like to think I have given up. But how do you tell 15 kids individually to be quiet and stop touching each other?
During that time, I also go around and help students who need it. Talking to the class as a whole is a write off.

How would those with awesome classroom management skills handle this?

LOL - I wouldn't have looked so awesome with my 1st-year MS students today. The PPT I got off the MS forum just did not work at all and it was a mistake to do the lesson I planned in the English room instead of their classroom. I ended up punishing an entire class for the first time this year because they wouldn't - get this - stfu long enough to listen to instructions for a bingo game.

I know what you mean about it taking them effing forever just to turn to page 48 of their textbook. Especially in the ER this just takes for bloody ever:

'Turn to page 48 of your textbook. Your textbook. Yeongo cheak. Sa-ship pal pagie. No not your activities book, your textbook. Cheak. Page 48. Sa-ship pal'. All right look at part C - the dialogue. OK the first time just listen and repeat after me - Darahaseyo - "Can you swim?" What? What's the matter'?

'Teachah what pagie'?

Oh Christ.  ::)

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oskinny1

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2011, 04:01:24 pm »
My experience has been great.  Then again... it all depends on your attitude.  Most of my experiences in life have been great.  Teach with love my friend...

I bet my students would eat you alive. nomnomnom.
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S.Lee

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2011, 04:22:04 pm »
I feel like a lot of these topics/threads (student behavior related) are started by female teachers. I'm starting to wonder why. Are foreign female teachers easier targets for students? I wonder if korean female students have the same struggles.

I'm not trying to slander anyone, im just curious about the correlation.

I'm starting to lose the grip on some of my classes too, and i'm starting to give more death stares and making more classes stay after the bell. I make the whole class stay because Korea (and most of asia) has a collectivist culture, and they begin to self-govern themselves more. Also I reward the students that try to keep the class quiet.
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Yu_Bumsuk

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2011, 04:34:14 pm »
I feel like a lot of these topics/threads (student behavior related) are started by female teachers. I'm starting to wonder why. Are foreign female teachers easier targets for students? I wonder if korean female students have the same struggles.

I'm not trying to slander anyone, im just curious about the correlation.

Interesting - I've had similar observations. Students can sniff out a lack of confidence very easily. If you don't know the language and are new to teaching you're probably lacking in confidence somewhat. However if you're also of a smaller stature than some of the students, that has to be even more the case.

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hilarity ensues

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2011, 04:36:30 pm »
The biggest problem I have is that once they start with the holidays and the trips and the warmer weather, my students flip out.

At my school, attitudes go from manageable to difficult around May... it could have something to do with only having a month and a half before the summer break, I suppose... also, the holidays, school trips, exams, and 'free study periods'. Last week there were movies being shown so that the K teachers could make time to do whatever it is that they have to do that isn't actually teaching. The students have also bonded and are growing comfortable at the school and with each other being in whatever year they're in, so they're getting bolder.

You could try changing the seating plan-- that's one of my favorites... or I guess you could go with the whole 'be more entertaining' thing.   
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sasez

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2011, 04:37:14 pm »
I feel like a lot of these topics/threads (student behavior related) are started by female teachers. I'm starting to wonder why. Are foreign female teachers easier targets for students? I wonder if korean female students have the same struggles.

I'm not trying to slander anyone, im just curious about the correlation.

Interesting - I've had similar observations. Students can sniff out a lack of confidence very easily. If you don't know the language and are new to teaching you're probably lacking in confidence somewhat. However if you're also of a smaller stature than some of the students, that has to be even more the case.

They can smell fear :)  As a female teacher, I do find that my boys are a little cheekier than my girls in that they'll make inappropriate comments and think that they're acceptable because "it's a man's world"  ::) Having said that, however, I do think experience plays a huge role in how we handle students.
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Rusty Shackleford

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2011, 04:37:31 pm »
I feel like a lot of these topics/threads (student behavior related) are started by female teachers. I'm starting to wonder why. Are foreign female teachers easier targets for students? I wonder if korean female students have the same struggles.

I'm not trying to slander anyone, im just curious about the correlation.

Interesting - I've had similar observations. Students can sniff out a lack of confidence very easily. If you don't know the language and are new to teaching you're probably lacking in confidence somewhat. However if you're also of a smaller stature than some of the students, that has to be even more the case.

I have few problems teaching alone. My really old and really young female co-teachers get eaten alive by the students. Notice in that last class my coteacher had just spent 10 mins yelling at them?
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KLM

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #70 on: May 24, 2011, 11:12:29 am »
I don't allow my first-year, male, high school students to have any choice about where and with whom they sit. They must work with a partner that I choose and sit where I tell them. I create seating charts that I display via projector at the beginning of every class.

It is more work for me to make new seating charts and change the pairs every week or two, and it eats up class time to go through the "change your seats now, just like you've done every class since day 1" rigmarole at the beginning of every class, but it's worth it. My students now are far less rude than the students I had last year, before I introduced the seating charts.
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annab

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #71 on: May 24, 2011, 01:28:23 pm »
Find out who is the most feared teacher in your school. Ours is 'Min-ju' the P.E. teacher. Now day's I just have to say 'Min-ju' in a deep voice and a raised eyebrow.  :D
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Summer

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #72 on: May 24, 2011, 04:58:58 pm »
This is a great thread. I am glad to be involved in this discussion. I  have found it does work best when I REALLY reward good behavior and  punish bad behavior (as best as I can as a NT)

As for rewarding, I have a stamp system in place and those who participate in class and behave properly receive a stamp (I use my own stamp which I bought from Insadong for 5,000 won). And, as an extra incentive at the end of the semester I will pick the top 5 kids with the most stamps from each of my classes (I have 22 classes) and give them a certificate I printed off (from 123certificates.com) as well as choco-pie and an eraser or pencil (thank you Daiso!).  Generally, the korean students are really competitive so they like this idea of competing against each other for stuff. 

For my bad classes, I recently have had a bit of success making them sit boy/girl/boy/girl. First, I make all of them get up and the boys line up against one wall and the girls line up against another wall. And, then I hand pick how I want the students to sit boy/girl/boy/girl. I then tell them, "You act bad I will treat you like a baby and you will sit like this for the rest of the year, You behave well you can return to your old seats. Its completely your choice." And, I try to make sure I sit the really bad students in the very front so I can monitor them and control them via "the stare" which is where I stop class and stare at them until they stop acting horrible.
If they are extraordinarily bad, i.e. destroying the furniture, screaming in the middle of class, fighting, throwing pencils, throwing their shoes etc I stop class and tell them, " Push up position. Now." And, if they don't do that I then tell them, "Either you do the push up position, or I go visit the Principal right now. Its really your choice."   

Its really hard if you have a co-teacher who doesn't do anything, but generally I have found if you tell the students you will visit the VP or Principle's office its very effective.

The certificate thing is a really good idea!!! I'd imagine that the parents would be very happy that their kid brings home a certificate.

This is a great thread. I am glad to be involved in this discussion. I  have found it does work best when I REALLY reward good behavior and  punish bad behavior (as best as I can as a NT)

As for rewarding, I have a stamp system in place and those who participate in class and behave properly receive a stamp (I use my own stamp which I bought from Insadong for 5,000 won). And, as an extra incentive at the end of the semester I will pick the top 5 kids with the most stamps from each of my classes (I have 22 classes) and give them a certificate I printed off (from 123certificates.com) as well as choco-pie and an eraser or pencil (thank you Daiso!).  Generally, the korean students are really competitive so they like this idea of competing against each other for stuff. 

For my bad classes, I recently have had a bit of success making them sit boy/girl/boy/girl. First, I make all of them get up and the boys line up against one wall and the girls line up against another wall. And, then I hand pick how I want the students to sit boy/girl/boy/girl. I then tell them, "You act bad I will treat you like a baby and you will sit like this for the rest of the year, You behave well you can return to your old seats. Its completely your choice." And, I try to make sure I sit the really bad students in the very front so I can monitor them and control them via "the stare" which is where I stop class and stare at them until they stop acting horrible.
If they are extraordinarily bad, i.e. destroying the furniture, screaming in the middle of class, fighting, throwing pencils, throwing their shoes etc I stop class and tell them, " Push up position. Now." And, if they don't do that I then tell them, "Either you do the push up position, or I go visit the Principal right now. Its really your choice."   

Its really hard if you have a co-teacher who doesn't do anything, but generally I have found if you tell the students you will visit the VP or Principle's office its very effective.

It seems like you have a good system.  However, I try to not use the boy / girl distinction when doing seating charts.  I don't like to separate the boys and girls too much - especially given the rampant amount of sexism in Korea.  It's common practice here, just like it was in the U.S. decades ago.  My education classes taught that separating boy / girl supports an environment of girls and boys being different in the classroom...

Teachers should definitely do what best suits them; I just wanted to contribute this thought!

From my understanding, hollifina is seating them boy-girl-boy-girl, not one half only has boys and the other girls...
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Summer

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #73 on: May 24, 2011, 05:03:36 pm »
I feel like a lot of these topics/threads (student behavior related) are started by female teachers. I'm starting to wonder why. Are foreign female teachers easier targets for students? I wonder if korean female students have the same struggles.

I'm not trying to slander anyone, im just curious about the correlation.

I'm starting to lose the grip on some of my classes too, and i'm starting to give more death stares and making more classes stay after the bell. I make the whole class stay because Korea (and most of asia) has a collectivist culture, and they begin to self-govern themselves more. Also I reward the students that try to keep the class quiet.

I think women in general are typically easier targets... I'm quite worried about myself. I'm a woman, I'm Asian, I look very young, I'm quite short, and I can easily be mistaken for a student. I'm not in Korea teaching, but I am planning to do so next year and I'm very worried that I'll get no respect and won't be able to control my classes.
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sasez

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #74 on: May 24, 2011, 05:20:35 pm »
I feel like a lot of these topics/threads (student behavior related) are started by female teachers. I'm starting to wonder why. Are foreign female teachers easier targets for students? I wonder if korean female students have the same struggles.

I'm not trying to slander anyone, im just curious about the correlation.

I'm starting to lose the grip on some of my classes too, and i'm starting to give more death stares and making more classes stay after the bell. I make the whole class stay because Korea (and most of asia) has a collectivist culture, and they begin to self-govern themselves more. Also I reward the students that try to keep the class quiet.

I think women in general are typically easier targets... I'm quite worried about myself. I'm a woman, I'm Asian, I look very young, I'm quite short, and I can easily be mistaken for a student. I'm not in Korea teaching, but I am planning to do so next year and I'm very worried that I'll get no respect and won't be able to control my classes.

Size has little to do with how well you can control a class of students.  One of the most feared teachers at my school is a woman of around 34 and who is only 4 ft tall.  I look very young, am quite short and was often mistaken for a student when teaching back home - it's how you approach situations and how confident you are in yourself - fake it :)
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Yu_Bumsuk

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #75 on: May 24, 2011, 05:45:46 pm »
I feel like a lot of these topics/threads (student behavior related) are started by female teachers. I'm starting to wonder why. Are foreign female teachers easier targets for students? I wonder if korean female students have the same struggles.

I'm not trying to slander anyone, im just curious about the correlation.

I'm starting to lose the grip on some of my classes too, and i'm starting to give more death stares and making more classes stay after the bell. I make the whole class stay because Korea (and most of asia) has a collectivist culture, and they begin to self-govern themselves more. Also I reward the students that try to keep the class quiet.

I think women in general are typically easier targets... I'm quite worried about myself. I'm a woman, I'm Asian, I look very young, I'm quite short, and I can easily be mistaken for a student. I'm not in Korea teaching, but I am planning to do so next year and I'm very worried that I'll get no respect and won't be able to control my classes.

Size has little to do with how well you can control a class of students.  One of the most feared teachers at my school is a woman of around 34 and who is only 4 ft tall.  I look very young, am quite short and was often mistaken for a student when teaching back home - it's how you approach situations and how confident you are in yourself - fake it :)

Today for the first time in years I had a student try to refuse to give me her phone. I finally grabbed it tightly as she held on for dear life and proceeded to walk away from her desk so that she'd end up going over the top of it if she didn't let go. I didn't get angry and kept a semi-joking attitude about the whole thing but I still made her write out double the normal amount of lines for being an idiot. Which I can do because I'm a 5'11" man and she's a 5'8" 14-year-old who may be one of the strongest in her class but still cannot out-pull me. So, I didn't have to get angry at all or ruin the atmosphere of the class or get another teacher involved or anything. There are times when it's nice not to have to be feared and send off that kind of vibe because, well, I can always just make them if they won't cooperate.

Gosh my second-years were a real handful today. Not rude but just two back-to-back lessons of 45 minutes of constant work to keep them on task.
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azk00

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #76 on: May 25, 2011, 03:03:24 am »
thanks for sharing. it's great to see options...need to be more strict!
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diane15

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #77 on: May 25, 2011, 07:47:13 am »
[yeah i agree

if you try to give them love,
The love will come back from the Ss
eventhough it mght not work all the time.

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Yu_Bumsuk

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #78 on: May 25, 2011, 08:43:55 am »
[yeah i agree

if you try to give them love,
The love will come back from the Ss
eventhough it mght not work all the time.

Indeed - if they know you're merely upset at their behaviour and not at them they won't hold it against you even if you do punish them for it. Basically if you're smart enough not to take it personally they won't either.
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Juicealicious

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Re: RUDE STUDENTS!!
« Reply #79 on: May 25, 2011, 10:13:21 am »
I teach at an all girls high school and there was just a huge level of disrespect because they love to talk and use their cellphone so this is how I handled it.

For their English grade, they have a 10% participation mark which has been given to me so at the end of every class, I check to see if they've completed the assignment. They get a check mark if they do the work and an X if they don't. That pretty much made all the girls work but some were still being lazy so I upped the ante. The teachers have these yellow cards they give the students if they're bad. On the yellow card, there are different things they've done - i.e. talked back to the teacher, used their cell phones and beside it there are numbers. Basically the numbers are the points the students will lose towards their final grade, it's quite serious. So, if a student has 3 x's in my class, they receive one yellow card. If they maintain a perfect score, they'll get a green card (which, of course, is the opposite of the yellow card)

If a student receives a yellow card, it goes straight to their homeroom teacher and I have a talk with the homeroom teacher, then they speak to the student. Students seem to be very scared of the homeroom teacher. I've never had it gone beyond that, but if it does, the next step would be to send a text (Yes, a text. My school sends text messages because they believe it's better than sending home a letter) to their parents.

For me, I tried the whole reward system and it just didn't work. For my students, there had to be a real loss in their grades for them to straighten up.

I know you're in a middle school, but grades are still important, especially when they have to show their parents. I suggest talking to your co-teachers to see if there if any way you can get some of those marks or at the very least, have them use your lessons in the exams.

Sometimes these kids just get so out of control - and you shouldn't have to spend your money on rewarding these kids for behavior they should already have instilled in them.

My whole system may sound super strict, but it's the only way to get the students to do the work. Otherwise, they see your class as pointless and continue to do whatever they want.
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