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  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: U.S.News: Canada is the No. 1 Country in the World
« Reply #80 on: March 28, 2022, 02:11:07 pm »
I feel that Canada's very minor turn towards supporting green energy to be a good thing.
Oil will always be valuable, and will only become more so the longer we keep it in the ground.
"Green BS" is the only thing that will stop corporate run governments from turning the lives of our grandchildren into absolute misery.

We, as a global society, need to start thinking less about the money that's burning holes in our pockets, and more about long term profits.




  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5061

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: U.S.News: Canada is the No. 1 Country in the World
« Reply #81 on: March 28, 2022, 02:26:28 pm »
I feel that Canada's very minor turn towards supporting green energy to be a good thing.
Oil will always be valuable, and will only become more so the longer we keep it in the ground.
"Green BS" is the only thing that will stop corporate run governments from turning the lives of our grandchildren into absolute misery.

We, as a global society, need to start thinking less about the money that's burning holes in our pockets, and more about long term profits.




This is some serious fluff right here.  If you let the drilling and pipelines happen, the oil prices would fall a lot and be an improvement to most families budgets.  As for the greenness, that technology is decades away from being efficient enough to take over.  Right now, it is too expensive and too inefficient to power a modern grid.   North Korea does live with a very green and organic natural environment though but with a very awful quality of life.  It is a far left green utopia though?


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: U.S.News: Canada is the No. 1 Country in the World
« Reply #82 on: March 28, 2022, 02:39:20 pm »
North Korea does absolutely *not* have a green and organic environment: most of it was totally deforested during and immediately after the civil war, and has been thoroughly abused since due to almost zero environmental regulations. The sad state of their environment can be seen via satellite. It's so bad that North Korea has repeatedly attempted to secure aid from European environmental reconstruction experts (specifically, reforestation experts from Denmark).
Part of the reason the quality of life in North Korea is so low for the citizens outside of Pyeongyang is that it is nearly impossible to subsist off the land, as it has been utterly denuded.  :sad:


 Alternative energies like hydro, nuclear, solar, wind, thermal, and tidal are more than  sufficient for our energy needs given enough funding for development. These energies would also mean energy security ( a huge issue for the US).
   The assumption that fossil fuels are the only reliable and cost-effective source of energy is a fallacy that the oil industry spends billions to promote. It hasn't been true since the early 1990s. Sustainable energy efficiency has improved by huge leaps and bounds over the last few decades.  :smiley:


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5061

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: U.S.News: Canada is the No. 1 Country in the World
« Reply #83 on: March 28, 2022, 02:43:38 pm »
North Korea does absolutely *not* have a green and organic environment: most of it was totally deforested during and immediately after the civil war, and has been thoroughly abused since due to almost zero environmental regulations. The sad state of their environment can be seen via satellite. It's so bad that North Korea has repeatedly attempted to secure aid from European environmental reconstruction experts (specifically, reforestation experts from Denmark).
Part of the reason the quality of life in North Korea is so low for the citizens outside of Pyeongyang is that it is nearly impossible to subsist off the land, as it has been utterly denuded.  :sad:


 Alternative energies like hydro, nuclear, solar, wind, thermal, and tidal are more than  sufficient for our energy needs given enough funding for development. These energies would also mean energy security ( a huge issue for the US).
   The assumption that fossil fuels are the only reliable and cost-effective source of energy is a fallacy that the oil industry spends billions to promote. It hasn't been true since the early 1990s. Sustainable energy efficiency has improved by huge leaps and bounds over the last few decades.  :smiley:

I love how you threw in nuclear.  Most greeners would flip over that being added.  But amongst current technology, natural gas and nuclear are the cleanest.  But the others do not produce enough power to power a modern industrial grid.  The tech has to be improved a lot in order for that to be able to happen.  Using the green options only is very expensive and produces very little making life more unaffordable to people already struggling to make a living and put food for their families on the dinner table.  The costly regulations and rules around this along with bad trade deals led to the outsourcing of good paying middle class jobs as well. 


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5845

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: U.S.News: Canada is the No. 1 Country in the World
« Reply #84 on: March 29, 2022, 03:18:26 am »
I'd be proud if there were lots of good paying jobs and reasonable rents or housing prices.  I guess the way the economy is structured nowadays, it's good for the elites.  They can even afford to buy a 6 million dollar green home and brag about it to their yuppy buddies.  Good for them, I guess.  The only bright spot for good paying jobs was in the oil patch but Turdo ruined that.  Though Biden gets his credit too for blocking the Keystone XL pipeline at a time when the world needs oil due to the ban on Russian oil.  Well, on the bright side, good for America as their far left stubborness blocking pipelines and drilling for new oil is making the oil price rise.  They will get their asses kicked in the midterms the higher the price of fuel is.  As for Canada, never put it past a lot of dummies to keep voting for commies making life more and more expensive with their bureaucratic and lame green bs. 
One has to wonder exactly what kind of good paying job you would qualify for, especially since you seem to lack entrepreneurial spirit.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: U.S.News: Canada is the No. 1 Country in the World
« Reply #85 on: March 29, 2022, 07:43:21 am »
I love how you threw in nuclear.  Most greeners would flip over that being added.  But amongst current technology, natural gas and nuclear are the cleanest.  But the others do not produce enough power to power a modern industrial grid.  The tech has to be improved a lot in order for that to be able to happen.  Using the green options only is very expensive and produces very little making life more unaffordable to people already struggling to make a living and put food for their families on the dinner table.  The costly regulations and rules around this along with bad trade deals led to the outsourcing of good paying middle class jobs as well. 
Nuclear is currently the best, most viable large scale energy source. There are a lot of crazies, even among those who take the long view: the unreasoning, complete rejection of fission is definitely a problem. Nuclear has issues, but they're not insurmountable if properly considered.

 As for modern industrial grids, you would be surprised how robust newer generations of renewable sources are. Off shore wind farms can provide a substantial, dependable amount of energy: 20 gigawatts is the current max, but there are project underway that will exceed that (for reference, the average natural gas plant outputs at just under 1 gigawatt).
https://www.power-technology.com/features/feature-biggest-wind-farms-in-the-world-texas/

Also watt per watt, renewable energy employs more people than traditional fossil fuel based powerplants. In the USA, for every 1 million dollars spent on brown energy, 2.65 full time jobs are created. For every 1 million dollars spent on green energies, 7.65 full time jobs are created.https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S026499931630709X#:~:text=I%20find%20that%20on%20average,jobs%20per%20%241%20million%20spending.

The middle class benefits greatly from green energy. Big oil benefits greatly at the expense of everybody else in promoting old fashioned, obsolete power systems.



  I know this doesn't jibe with your political views, but I hope that you will at least look at the sources I posted and maybe re-evaluate your somewhat dated knowledge on the topic. Green energy is better for the economy, better for the middle class, better for your health, and better for the world. Them's the facts, kid.  :smiley:


Re: U.S.News: Canada is the No. 1 Country in the World
« Reply #86 on: March 29, 2022, 09:39:28 am »
Nuclear is currently the best, most viable large scale energy source. There are a lot of crazies, even among those who take the long view: the unreasoning, complete rejection of fission is definitely a problem. Nuclear has issues, but they're not insurmountable if properly considered.

 As for modern industrial grids, you would be surprised how robust newer generations of renewable sources are. Off shore wind farms can provide a substantial, dependable amount of energy: 20 gigawatts is the current max, but there are project underway that will exceed that (for reference, the average natural gas plant outputs at just under 1 gigawatt).
https://www.power-technology.com/features/feature-biggest-wind-farms-in-the-world-texas/

Also watt per watt, renewable energy employs more people than traditional fossil fuel based powerplants. In the USA, for every 1 million dollars spent on brown energy, 2.65 full time jobs are created. For every 1 million dollars spent on green energies, 7.65 full time jobs are created.https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S026499931630709X#:~:text=I%20find%20that%20on%20average,jobs%20per%20%241%20million%20spending.

The middle class benefits greatly from green energy. Big oil benefits greatly at the expense of everybody else in promoting old fashioned, obsolete power systems.



  I know this doesn't jibe with your political views, but I hope that you will at least look at the sources I posted and maybe re-evaluate your somewhat dated knowledge on the topic. Green energy is better for the economy, better for the middle class, better for your health, and better for the world. Them's the facts, kid.  :smiley:
The components and maintenance for green energy aren't green. From what I understand mining, production and assembly make green energy not as green as presented. Better than coal but not zero.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: U.S.News: Canada is the No. 1 Country in the World
« Reply #87 on: March 29, 2022, 10:12:46 am »
You are, of course, 100% correctamundo.

No power source is perfect, unfortunately.  :sad:

That said, just because a tech isn't perfect does not mean it shouldn't be pursued. Incremental improvements are better than none at all.
This is actually one of the problems that plagues fission: it has had a number of high-profile disasters, and the issue of easily weaponizing its waste products and the scare factor of radio-active waste has made it unpopular with die-hard environmentalists. I feel that the pushback against nuclear energy has actually been a huge detriment to the environment.
  It's also, indirectly, hurting the pursuit of fusion tech: people think of how bad runaway fission events are and then get worried about what might happen with fusion plants (which are actually infinitely safer due to the complete impossibility of melt-downs etc).

There will always be luddites, of course, but it's frustrating when stupid stuff like politics, ignorance, and greed derail things that would otherwise greatly benefit literally everybody.  :sad:


Just for interest's sake, here's a graph showing a comparison of the carbon footprint of different energy producers over their entire life-cycle, from production to disposal:


The different economics of these energy sources is also really important to some people, so it's probably a good idea to look at their overall Return on Investment (ROI) over the same period:

Higher is better. Note that modern wind turbines produce a unit of energy for approximately the same cost as oil and gas plants.