They are kids, even the upper forms (age 18) are. They do not want a master but someone who cares about them.

When I started teaching in Europe, I started out teaching like I had been at hakwons in Korea. Showing 'dominance' by prancing about, gesticulating angrily like those female co-teachers and shouting, bellowing even and of course punishing kids daily, hourly even. Even punishing entire classes for the chaotic mayhem that was caused by a few boys. But it is always 'a few kids' and as long as you get stuck into that type of thinking, you will never realise that the chaos comes from you within. Martino says that some students are just beyond our help. I disagree vehemently. I have seen many, many delinquent youths thought to be beyond help, but in the end they all just want to do well. The question is not 'They don't give a F. so how to control them? but rather how do you create an environment in which they can feel respected and even 'loved.' But that word is heavily laden in Europe so I use the word 'liked' now. Again, I use Confucian principles (philosophy, NOT a religion) like reciprocity and respect and I explain it to them as well that way. Is it stressful to work at such inner city (low IQ) schools? Of course, but you can always connect to students and the fact is that the less you punish, the less bad behaviour you will see. I still remember this unbelievable moment when a colleague was hours late to class and his students just continued to study on their own, even without a teacher. All it read on the board was: Mr. X is late. Study pages 100-110. That was the class (28 boys aged 16) that I was punishing daily for extremely bad behaviour. ( Throwing books, screaming, kicking tables over, punching each other, fighting even.) I used to think it was racism, them acting out against my foreign looks, but it was not. I was just teaching completely wrongly. 

Years later, the situation was reversed. I was now the teacher trainer and there was a sub teaching economics and it was a chaos. Windows breaking even. I remember walking into that room and it was a warzone, she was standing at the back of the class reading aloud from the book and all the kids were yelling and laughing and throwing stuff at her and the tables were everywhere. Everyone was dead silent as soon as they saw me. I asked: "Are you okay? Do you need any help?" And the teacher said: "No, I'm fine, please leave." As soon as I closed the door, the shouting continued... I had a chat with management later and all they said was 'she just doesn't want any help from us and we cannot find another sub.' That situation continued for some time. The sad thing about this was not the teacher, but the fact that she will propagate the myth or idea that some kids are so horrible that they cannot be taught or changed. In this case, she will tell anyone willing to listen how 1 specific group in our country are monsters and should all be locked up or expelled, because we, the college graduates are so much better than them.

Martino is right in saying that I have never seen a gun pulled on me and we do not have systematic racism built into our culture so it could be possible that the black community some disadvantaged 'groups' in the US could be so angry that they do not want to listen to any authority from that system. However, we do have our fair share of PTSD immigrant students and other violent young people who carry large knives to school. But we intentionally do not have any reactionary methods such as metal detectors or gated school communities patrolled by police. Instead, we start at the source and that is always us, you and me, the teachers.

Quote from: Ronnie Omelettes on February 23, 2019, 05:16:26 pm

showing dominance is not the name of the day. empathy and understanding.

YES, Thank you!

To others: I think this thread has run its course maybe 2 pages ago and I might be to blame. IF you truly have questions about this because your current classes are difficult then please create another thread where we could do intervision, although doing IV over the Internet is quite... challenging.

Quote from: Bingsu on March 30, 2018, 05:06:07 pm

Public school after school classes. We're just now starting "Hello, my name is" and "It's nice to meet you."

Honestly I'm at the point of giving up with these kids.

Today I had two boys get into a fistfight, one boy tackled another and really hurt the poor kid's leg, and for some unknown reason one of my boys pulled out a tub of gochujang, opened it, and just....tipped it over the side. I honestly cannot make this up. I actually took a picture of them secretly with the container after I had to clean up the mess.

I ended up crying 3 times in an hour because I was so overwhelmed and frustrated and lost.

I have a HUGE issue with them having their phones out in class and it was a massive battle to get them to put them on the desk near mine, only 4/16 actually did it. Could really use that CoT instead of more worksheets since all but a few of them ended up on the floor. I can't even get them to sit down for more than 5 seconds or write their names on the top of the paper, any activity we do is a fiery nosedive into chaos.

If I were you I'd start looking for another job or think about quitting, because the situation is basically impossible.


I was in exactly the same situation as you: public A/S gig, classes OK except for one terrible class. Things were fine for the first 3 months, then two or three boys started to escalate their bad behaviour. The CoT and the company did not help. The worst boys mother believed the lies he told her about me. The company just backed down and pandered to her because she was a customer and very vocal at the parents meeting. I thought there was light at the end of the tunnel, that things would improve if only i tried this or did that. No. Once the hard core of troublemakers realizes that you have no real power, and that even the CoT will undermine you... it is over. You cannot bring that class back. And they will spread their nonsense to other classes. You might be doing great with most students, but it only takes two or three unruly students to destroy your job, because everyone from the CoT to the principal to your company is too afraid to punish them.

Without proper discipline the kids will get more and more out of control until there is a real risk of serious accident. What if some student jumps off a desk and breaks their leg? It will suddenly be your problem.  You have no voice. The CoT handles all communications with the parents and will say whatever it takes to make herself look good and keep her job. A student could throw a rock at your head and they would cover it up or contrive it to be your fault. One teacher I knew got punched in the face by one of the middle school boys. The school blamed him for "making the boy angry". There is no protection for the foreign teacher, zero. Its all chinese whispers and face-saving.

I wanted to quit (and in hindsight i should have!) but I hung on because I was over half way through the contract and I knew they would not give me a letter of release, but actually my morale was very low -these jobs are quite isolating.  I was the third FT at that school in a year, the turnover was that high.

A/S jobs may look attractive because of the pay and hours, but they are the worst of the worst in the Korean ESL scene because they are based on a totally dysfunctional system. So if i were you I'd get out while you're ahead. Even Hogwons are better than A/S gigs.