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Author Topic: Students actually learning?  (Read 7090 times)

Offline Joteacher

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Re: Students actually learning?
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2013, 06:24:34 PM »
I don't know what to say or think about the Korean education system. I've been here about 9 months now. I try to be patient and optimistic about my classes as well as my position, but for the most part I feel like the system here or lack of actually henders learning more than it helps.  >:( Hagwon teachers do all of the teaching in this country and public school teachers are just stage clowns. Really? How productive can you be with 45 minutes a week dedicated to classes of about 35. Especially when your co-teacher is not very good at doing one of the most important things a co-teacher can do, just keeping the kids volume below a certain threshold.
Bingo!  :wink:
Sad in many respects. If English is as important as 'Korea' deems it is then English would be taught more often and starting from grade 1 in my honest opinion.

Offline Aqvm

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Re: Students actually learning?
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2013, 08:49:39 PM »
There's a new girl in my middle school that takes notes in my class. I realized how rare this is for a Korean student and how silly that fact is. My class is so easy for her because of how much effort I have to put into helping the other kids recall simple things. She easily retains everything because she wrote it down the first time.

It's sad that the educational model here is input->memorization (which isn't a good model anyway) but the students don't even take notes so it's just input->nothing.

Offline Blast Hardcheese

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Re: Students actually learning?
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2013, 11:15:47 AM »
Maybe I'm really old, but were we like this when we were in school?

I'm trying to remember; what was it like in Western school?  Did we not shut up all class?

Well *I* didn't, and *you* didn't.  But we both have BA's at a minimum.  What about the human waste we grew up with?  You know, the ones who you find working at 7-11 when you visit your parents?  What were *they* like?

I'm Canadian, and we studied French from 3rd grade elementary up through the 1st grade of high school.  I paid attention in class - got straight A's, but I can't remember much more than Je ne suis pas un banane and Quele heure et il?

Maybe we're being unreasonable.  How much can they really learn?

Offline This guy

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Re: Students actually learning?
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2013, 09:02:47 PM »
After 9 months here at a low-level high school I can say I've identified the problem, devised a solution and completely understand that it will never happen because of the admin.  I've yet to hear an argument against this.  We are completely wasted as a resource.  Rather than wasting time banging our heads against a wall with kids who don't care or can't understand or retain anything for less than an hour a week we should be with the higher-level or more interested students everyday of the week.  Instead of producing formal lessons and going through the motions with the same fucked-out, straight-forward presentation the students already receive all day long, we should be a supplement to their education, focusing on a grammar point or a few phrases or idioms or what have you for a particular session and allowing them to practice speaking in a natural setting with a native speaker. 

When I learn Korean, I learn intellectually from a book but then conversationally from using it and being corrected or improved, by exercising it in context.  How nuts would it be if you took high school Spanish in the U.S. from a Spanish or Bolivian or whatever teacher who couldn't speak much English and you had little interest or ability in the language?  The more interested, motivated, higher-level students would benefit a lot more from that.  It breaks my heart when I see the lone engaged student sitting meekly at his chair while I waste time explaining something very simple or disciplining others, especially when that students was conversing with me before class. 

The TEPS, TOEFL, and even just high school listening tests are hard, and a lot of students want to study abroad, work abroad, or go to a good Uni and need a lot more help.  My students come in at lunch to practice just talking, I meet some on the weekends, we will stay after school to correct papers and speeches for scholarships or working holiday interviews.  All of these instances feature me actually being useful and helping a student with something they actually need and would not have if I was not here.  They also all feature instances where I am not getting paid and when I have already exhausted myself doing nothing of real value.  It would be the best resource to have when learning a language, to have a native speaker to practice with, someone employed at your school, someone you could see everyday.  Our jobs, at least for mid and high school, ought to involve spending time talking (about a movie, current events, a specific pre-programed topic, or even chatting over a game of cards), much more like a Uni gig.  It is just better for everyone.  Sadly this will not happen, indeed they are taking the approach of laying off NETs to remedy the issue of the lack of impact we are having. 

Sorry for the long screed, but this has pained me for some time now, and it all just seems so obvious to me.   Thoughts?

Offline TheEnergizer

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Re: Students actually learning?
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2013, 12:44:01 AM »
The class size is really limits what I can do with them. As someone above said, 30 kids per class seen once a week has little effect. They come into my class looking for something fun and different from their regular school grind. I don't want to always play bomb games, but any activity that requires even the least bit of extended instruction or active participation falls flat because the kids don't have the attention span, and not all of my co-teachers like to take the time to translate my instructions.

But I think they do learn from having me around the school. I am the foreigner that they must use English to communicate with. I can speak and understand some Korean, but I always play dumb when it comes to my students (especially during classtime). They are forced to develop as speakers when they are challenged to communicate with me in a foreign language. Just being around motivates them to study English more. If they take an interest in my hobbies or I take an interest in theirs, suddenly there's commonality and English becomes the medium through which we can discuss our shared interests.

I feel the same. I have tried to limit the amount of bomb games I do this year compared to last year. I try to get more engaging activities while still trying to make it fun, but it is sometimes a pain.

I teach from the book so I am doing some form of teaching on an English grammar or vocabulary point, and try to do review games based on what they just learned.

Offline smmoon3031

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Re: Students actually learning?
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2013, 12:38:27 PM »
For Korean girl students, I find them to be better students as well. More focus. That being said, they love creative activities and puzzles, such as word scrambles.

For Korean boys, few of em are very good, but most are the craziest, ADD, little crap heads I've ever seen. I find competitive activities with actions that do not require any prior English knowledge prerequisites keep them engaged and on task.

I normally go through the new material and make sure the higher levels obtain the information while content is low enough to be understandable to the lower levels. Then I play an activity that uses the new material and requires them to do some kind of action before or after the language usage. Oh, and I toss in a puzzle here and there to keep the girls on task.

It seems to be working... and I think the crap heads are learning a little bit, too.

Offline This guy

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Re: Students actually learning?
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2013, 05:45:03 PM »
Funny coincidence, they just told me those kids I was meeting with after school and on the weekends were the first from the school to pass the test for working holiday in Australia.  Granted, they didn't tell me till now that I have to train them for the interview next week starting tomorrow and they didn't tell me how or what to teach them, but I guess I can say those particular kids are actually learning.   

Offline bluesky72

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Re: Students actually learning?
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2013, 12:41:13 PM »
I've been teaching at a middle school (my 4th semester) so I can only comment on that:

Generally you are just a face - a clown as someone put it.  Students in general really don't care about English, have far less respect toward foreign teachers and in fact Korean co-teachers do little to discourage this line of thinking.

I would agree that 1st graders are better - probably because their years of rebelion have not been fully materialized yet. . . but by the time they get to 3rd grade and finish middle school they will lose a big chunk of the English they learned in earlier years.  I used to think that such loss of English has to do with poor teaching, but alot of it has to do with their own attitudes which is fully encouraged by other Korean teachers (because they think there is nothing wrong with it and it is all of your fault) - the recent trend of getting away from disciplining students doesn't help either.

This is sad but true and unfortunately there is very little you can do either when you're dealing with an amazingly huge bureaucracy - you being a foreigner and standing up to it is like someone fighting a raging flood with a paddle.  Lets also not forget that they judge you purely on whether they like your face and attitude. . .but not your performance.  IT is a complete joke, but I guess if you want to make money then you have to play along with the gag.

My school now is cutting me, so I will be moving on to other opportunities - maybe teaching adults in a private school - though I'm not sure yet if this will happen. . .have to wait.  This is something I feel I will enjoy and will probably produce better results than this bureaucratic nightmare that I'm in.

My advice to new teachers comming into this world: smile, don't get too frustrated, collect your paycheck and when time comes move on.

Offline fishead

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Re: Students actually learning?
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2013, 01:04:26 PM »
  The problem lies in the fact that many still try to do hogwan style lessons in public schools.
It's impossible. Instead of trying to teach the students the material get the students to teach the material to each other is much better. It's known as learner autonomy. You have to get students doing surveys, and peer dictations. The most important thing is pairwork.  This is something that has to be established on first day. If they don't understand what it is get the co-teacher to explain what it is in Korean. It's important that you establish this early on in the semester.

Offline LoveHina7

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Re: Students actually learning?
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2013, 04:24:19 PM »
I find it odd that you guys think the girls are better than the boys.

In general, I think I can agree with this statement, but in terms of fluency, I have many many boys who are better than the best of the girls.

 

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